Not By Works

[Seohce]

God’s Righteous Judgment

2 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?

5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

 

[preston39]

James 2: 17-24, KJV;

....17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

+++++++++++++++++++++

Faith without works does not full fill G-d's requirements for righteousness.

 

[Seohce]

Yeah....not quite what the bible sates....why is it so hard for you guys to answer 3 simple questions............


Answer the FOLLOWING EASY questions....

HOW does one get placed INTO the VINE?

WHAT WORK places one into the VINE?

HE that BELIEVES in the SON and CONFESSES this BELIEF is ____________ <-WHAT?

WHAT 1 word goes with the bolded ONE right above this question

Why do you think we would answer your questions when you yourself won't answer questions like;

-ARE YOU A SINNER?

-CAN FAITH WITHOUT LOVE SAVE YOU?

-DO YOU OBEY THE LORD'S TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS?

IF YOU CAN, PLEASE ANSWER WITH A YES OR NO THEN SUPPORT IT WITH SCRIPTURES


15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

.God’s Righteous Judgment

2 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?

5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
-

 

[joefizz]

Why do you think we would answer your questions when you yourself won't answer questions like;

-ARE YOU A SINNER?

-CAN FAITH WITHOUT LOVE SAVE YOU?

-DO YOU OBEY THE LORD'S TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS?

IF YOU CAN, PLEASE ANSWER WITH A YES OR NO THEN SUPPORT IT WITH SCRIPTURES


15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

.God’s Righteous Judgment

2 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?

5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
-

I might try later to answer more biblically and adequately but for now my answers(I know D this is directed at but oh well)would be...
1.Yes for all have fallen short of the glory of God
2.Yes because before we loved God he loved us first giving his only begotten son so that we might be saved and it was that love that saves not our love.
3.I do try but often I find that I try and sometimes do at least something right spiritually but other times I "try too hard" and end up in a problem because of doing things "my way"instead of "letting the Holy spirit" guide me.

 

[TruthTalk]

Just a heads up, Ben. Read all of them. He has some very unorthodox, even cultist beliefs.

Hi Budman, thanks for letting me jump back in the conversation occasionally; I'm still recovering from sciatic nerve damage. The problem from the beginning is that counterfeit gospels appear to be authentic but to the untrained spiritual eyes they are okay even appealing, (did not God say) but they are a poor and damning replica. Or as its beens said before, a broken clock is right twice a day and a half truth is a whole lie. Do not listen to the deceiver or you will both end up running into a ditch.

I get about 5mins at the key board and then I need to back away, thanks again. Time to look closely at the Word of God and the counterfeit will become oh so obvious.....

 

[VCO]

He argues with me every time I say that. He keeps claiming faith alone.

Abraham had FAITH, and it was COUNTED as RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Romans 4:2-5 (ESV)
[SUP]Ro 4:2 [/SUP] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Malachi 3:6 (ESV)
[SUP]Mal 3:6 [/SUP] “For I the LORD do not change;
therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.


GOD DOES NOT CHANGE, therefore everyone is IS SAVED THE EXACT SAME WAY.

You are WRONG, when you try to count works as part of SALVATION. JAMES 2, is not referring it to Salvation, HE WAS SAYING THAT GOD'S LOVE THAT WAS PUT IN US AT THE MOMENT WE EXERCISED SAVING FAITH, CAUSED A SPIRITUAL CHANGE IN US. JAMES was describing HOW GOD'S LOVE IN US WILL CHANGE US. Here is the Parallel verse that makes it obvious that our WORKS are PART OF OUR LOVE THAT GOD PUT IN US, AND NOTHING BUT FAITH IS OUR SALVATION.


1 John 3:14-20 (ESV)
[SUP]1Jn 3:14 [/SUP] We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him?
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him;
[SUP]20 [/SUP] for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

IT HAS NEVER BEEN PART OF OUR SALVATION, WHICH HAPPENED THE MOMENT WE EXHIBITED TRUE FAITH.

IT IS GOD's LOVE in us, that causes us to OBEY HIM and LOVE OTHERS.


Romans 5:5 (ESV)
[SUP]Ro 5:5 [/SUP] and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

 

[stonesoffire]

NOT A LIP SERVICE DEAD FAITH VOID OF WORKS BUT FULL OF HYPOCRISY AND DECEIPT.

LISTEN TO THIS...

26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

A "WALKING DEAD".

A man that takes cats to a lonely man who needs company, certainly has good deeds.

I did a little word study on James today.

When James was talking about a person that needed food and clothes, but only received a blessing, this was about preaching the gospel to someone without compassion for obvious needs of the person. That "faith" or message of faith in Jesus for salvation, won't save him in the now.

Look at the Greek...you may have a different understanding for James book if you do.

I was a bit surprised that one would think a Christian would even do such a thing to not provide food and clothing. We have the Divine nature within. Compassion to one in need would be given I would think.

 

[LightLoveHope]

A man that takes cats to a lonely man who needs company, certainly has good deeds.

I did a little word study on James today.

When James was talking about a person that needed food and clothes, but only received a blessing, this was about preaching the gospel to someone without compassion for obvious needs of the person. That "faith" or message of faith in Jesus for salvation, won't save him in the now.

Look at the Greek...you may have a different understanding for James book if you do.

I was a bit surprised that one would think a Christian would even do such a thing to not provide food and clothing. We have the Divine nature within. Compassion to one in need would be given I would think.

Greetings StonesOfFire,

I can see James observing his fellow believers, talking with great authority, claiming so very
much yet failing to love at a basic simple level.

This illustrates, like this thread, one can get a set of ideas that can really take root, the more
one studies the more certain one becomes, yet ones heart does not reflect the truth of love
reaching out to others, getting alongside and helping.

Anyone can become convinced they have it, and those evil opponents over there do not.
Yet Jesus says in the midst of this, do you love, can you see, have you found purity and
are not caught up in hurt, insult, revenge.

So I must remind myself each day, at the foot of the cross, who is my Lord and what is
His calling on my life. To love as He loved, to give as He gave, and to serve as He served.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation.
For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
2 Peter 1:20-21

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
1 John 1:5-7

So many talk about truth, and they know it, yet testify daily to falling into sin.
How pure are their hearts in this place? How many years have they been walking
with Jesus? How deeply does His word dwell in their hearts?

Purity is a place where joy in Christ abounds, where true release is found, when things
of the world fade, and praise to His name is on ones heart.

So when anyone comes closer to the Lord, and He fills their life, it is not about a change
in theology, but in revelation and cleansing within. I rejoice when I see this in brothers
and sisters, as Gods glory grows. Dwelling in the Spirit changes people into the likeness
of Christ, not because they know more, but because they are abiding in the vine and the
Light of life is working in them.

Want to know more of God? Draw close to Him, read His word, dwell in the Spirit, Praise
Him from your heart, pray through those you love and work out ways to serve.

 

[mailmandan]

James 2: 17-24, KJV;

....17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Let's examine James 2:14-24.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to give evidence to his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. He was "shown to be righteous."

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). *Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In a nutshell, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

Faith without works does not full fill G-d's requirements for righteousness.

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

 

[BillG]

Oh, I'm glad he sees it, but not always glad for what he sees. I'm not of the "God know's my heart, and I take comfort in that" tribe as if all were well. To be of such tribe is to be rather myopic.

Totally agree...

 

[dcontroversal]

Whether you realize it or not you state works are required for faith to be real. Therefore why do you claim faith only. There are different kinds of faith. Belief only or belief with action. The latter is required. Thats why faith without works is dead. Saying works are required defines the kind of faith required.

Logically faith implies works. No works faith is a dead faith. So saying works is required says true faith is required. Leaving out works means faith can be true or false. In logic the definition for implication is "it is not the case that the antecedent (faith) is true and the consequent (works) is false" . This shows works being true makes faith true.

Logic table antecedent=A consequent=C result=R
A C R
1 1 1
1 0 0
0 1 1
0 0 1

At 73 I still remember my college logic class. But then digital logic in electronics uses it. My carrier was mostly digital electronics.

So what, I did grade 12 algebra at 7......and it is FAITH alone that saves a man---->as in faith +- NOTHNG = BORN again from ABOVE by the spirit of incorruptible SEED............

 

[dcontroversal]

THEN ASK THEM IF THEY LOVE GOD AND THEY WOULD SURELY ANSWER YES OR ASK YOU YOUR QUESTION BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT LOVE FOR GOD IS OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS WHICH IS A WORK THAT IF ADDED TO FAITH COULD RUIN THEIR MANMADE FALSE DOCTRINE THAT THEY UPHOLD.

Not hardly......faith +- NOTHING = biblical salvation......it is NOT THAT WE LOVED HIM, but that he LOVED US AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR US

NO MAN can love GOD unless ALREADY BORN FRPM ABOVE BY FAITH ALONE.........nice try NO CEEGAR>>>>>>>puff puff

 

[dcontroversal]

3 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? 4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”

Every thing I have said is right regardless of your religions blinders......or the rose colored glasses that you bought and wear 24/7

FAITH +- NOTHING = BIBLICAL salvation............

NO MAN can work, love, bear fruit UNLESS already PLACED into the VINE BY FAITH ALONE......why is that so hard for you to understand....

TELL you what....take a seed, any seed and set it on your counter....no water, no soil and see if it will produce fruit for you.............let us know how that goes.........

 

[dcontroversal]

James 2: 17-24, KJV;

....17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

+++++++++++++++++++++

Faith without works does not full fill G-d's requirements for righteousness.

Therefore we CONCLUDE that a MAN is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without WORKS....

SO WHICH is it.....JAMES who writes ONE BOOK to the 12 tribes scattered abroad or PAUL who writes almost HALF of the N.T. having been taught by direct revelation from JESUS.....

TRY context PAL.....you might actually understand JAMES then.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Why do you think we would answer your questions when you yourself won't answer questions like;

-ARE YOU A SINNER?

-CAN FAITH WITHOUT LOVE SAVE YOU?

-DO YOU OBEY THE LORD'S TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS?

IF YOU CAN, PLEASE ANSWER WITH A YES OR NO THEN SUPPORT IT WITH SCRIPTURES



-

a. ALL have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of GOD.
There is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not.
He that is without sin cast the first stone.
If we say that we have no sin we are deceived and the truth is not in us

b. YES.....IT IS NOT that we loved God, but that he LOVED us and gave himself for us........NO MAN can LOVE GOD unless
born from above by FAITH alone. AND loving GOD is a process of GROWTH and MATURITY which COMES AFTER SALVATION
by FAITH ALONE +- ANYTHING

c. NOT ALWAYS......we ALL fail at times....ONLY ONE kept the LAW...JESUS......refer to POINT "A" and exactly why we need
THE imputed righteousness of CHRIST BY FAITH ALONE WHICH SAVES A MAN.....

NOW>>>>YOUR TURN

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Yeah....not quite what the bible sates....why is it so hard for you guys to answer 3 simple questions............


Answer the FOLLOWING EASY questions....

HOW does one get placed INTO the VINE?

WHAT WORK places one into the VINE?

HE that BELIEVES in the SON and CONFESSES this BELIEF is ____________ <-WHAT?

WHAT 1 word goes with the bolded ONE right above this question

 

[dcontroversal]

Abraham had FAITH, and it was COUNTED as RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Romans 4:2-5 (ESV)
[SUP]Ro 4:2 [/SUP] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Malachi 3:6 (ESV)
[SUP]Mal 3:6 [/SUP] “For I the LORD do not change;
therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.


GOD DOES NOT CHANGE, therefore everyone is IS SAVED THE EXACT SAME WAY.

You are WRONG, when you try to count works as part of SALVATION. JAMES 2, is not referring it to Salvation, HE WAS SAYING THAT GOD'S LOVE THAT WAS PUT IN US AT THE MOMENT WE EXERCISED SAVING FAITH, CAUSED A SPIRITUAL CHANGE IN US. JAMES was describing HOW GOD'S LOVE IN US WILL CHANGE US. Here is the Parallel verse that makes it obvious that our WORKS are PART OF OUR LOVE THAT GOD PUT IN US, AND NOTHING BUT FAITH IS OUR SALVATION.


1 John 3:14-20 (ESV)
[SUP]1Jn 3:14 [/SUP] We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him?
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him;
[SUP]20 [/SUP] for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

IT HAS NEVER BEEN PART OF OUR SALVATION, WHICH HAPPENED THE MOMENT WE EXHIBITED TRUE FAITH.

IT IS GOD's LOVE in us, that causes us to OBEY HIM and LOVE OTHERS.


Romans 5:5 (ESV)
[SUP]Ro 5:5 [/SUP] and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

AMEN BRO............the truth is the truth........

 

[LightLoveHope]

The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4

If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.
1 John 4:20

We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.
Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
1 John 5:9-12

My friends how can believers both be liars and also have eternal life?

Simple, one claims all the promises but refuses to obey or follow Christ. That is what John
calls lying.

Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.
1 Peter 1:22

There is a problem here. Peter describes obeying the truth purifies us, but also without
cleansing how can we obey or follow the truth.

This is why repentance, confession are so important, linked with seeing Jesus on the cross
dying and forgiving our sin. This has a purifying and cleansing effect on our souls.

Let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
Hebrews 10:22

Scripture is clear. A pure heart will see God. This is not an added extra, but
part of the Kingdom of God.

So contributors who rebel against obeying Jesus are lying.

 

[dcontroversal]

.My friends how can believers both be liars and also have eternal life?

A good question you should ask yourself.......you have regularly accused in this thread those things which are false....both as PJ and now under this new fake banner.....

 

[LightLoveHope]

Amen, as Paul says we need to test our own hearts to the word of God

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.
1 John 4:1-2

Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else,
for each one should carry his own load.
Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor.
Galatians 6:4-6

The reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything.
If you forgive anyone, I also forgive him. And what I have forgiven--if there was anything to forgive--I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake,
in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.
2 Corinthians 2:9-11

If sin is found in us, we are called to ask Jesus to forgive us, Amen.

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
James 5:16

Those without real faith do not believe they are truly forgiven or purified.
There faith is just as a sinner they are slaves to their sin, from which there
is no freedom, because they have never truly believed and trusted Jesus
as their Savior and Lord.

So they are trapped in this compromised, powerless faith which has no real
reality in their hearts, which they actually know, but this reality is too shattering
for them to cry aloud to Christ for spiritual reality and truth.

Dear Lord Jesus, break into the hearts of these lost people who deny you victory and
authority, so they might be filled with your Holy Spirit and know the power of your
resurrection, In Jesus's Name, Amen.