Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I have argued several times that faith in Jesus requires good works for it to be real. I like Paul desire to do good but the sin nature in me causes me to fail too often. Therefore I give thanks for the sacrifice of Jesus to remove the penalty of that sin from me. Paul puts it much better than me.
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NOW PAY ATTENTION AND BE HONEST IF YOU CAN
Originally Posted by Endoscopy
I am in total agreement with your comment. Another way of saying it is true faith produces good works. Which also means faith without works is false faith. It amazes me that people on this site argue strenuously against this claiming it is salvation by works ignoring that it is the other way around, the works are evidence of true faith. Dcontroversal chief among them.
NOW NOTE WHAT I HAVE POSTED MANY TIMES AND IN HONESTY TELL ME WHO WAS FALSLY ACCUSED
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
No one has disputed that bro.....the bible is clear on the following truths
Paul-->Romans-->A man is justified (rendered innocent) before God by faith void of works
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that justifies before God (void of works) is seen by men in our works
FAITH and FAITH alone saves eternally
FAITH that saves eternally will produce fruit/works....even if but one piece!
NOW NOTE WHAT I HAVE POSTED MANY TIMES AND IN HONESTY TELL ME WHO WAS FALSLY ACCUSED
Paul-->Romans-->A man is justified (rendered innocent) before God by faith void of works
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that justifies before God (void of works) is seen by men in our works
FAITH and FAITH alone saves eternally
FAITH that saves eternally will produce fruit/works....even if but one piece!
Please note your language: "You have argued" something you decry and condemn in others but not in yourself, as in, if a person argues on here it is wrong, if you do, it is justified.
There is only one faith, and it comes from Christ, it is not innate, and it always produces works. You don't make faith real, though you think you do because you want to contribute something to your salvation instead of giving all the glory to God.
Note 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.
No. Note it. Read it. Meditate on it before you go banging on your keyboard a response.
You didn't make your faith "real" by doing something but that is what you're teaching. You don't grasp that the faith James speaks of that doesn't save isn't real or true faith, and it doesn't BECOME real or true faith because the human starts to do some nice things.
You've twisted biblical gifted faith into human effort. I hear stones of the altar being cut by human hands, namely your human hands.
Why not just stop all that?
With your teaching you better make sure your good works outweigh your bad works so that you make your faith real by personal effort.
There is only one faith, and it comes from Christ, it is not innate, and it always produces works. You don't make faith real, though you think you do because you want to contribute something to your salvation instead of giving all the glory to God.
Note 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.
No. Note it. Read it. Meditate on it before you go banging on your keyboard a response.
You didn't make your faith "real" by doing something but that is what you're teaching. You don't grasp that the faith James speaks of that doesn't save isn't real or true faith, and it doesn't BECOME real or true faith because the human starts to do some nice things.
You've twisted biblical gifted faith into human effort. I hear stones of the altar being cut by human hands, namely your human hands.
Why not just stop all that?
With your teaching you better make sure your good works outweigh your bad works so that you make your faith real by personal effort.
Are you 13 and is this AOL........bolded letters do not equal yelling.......makes em easier to see.......like the following.....can you be honest for once....?
NOW PAY ATTENTION AND BE HONEST IF YOU CAN
Originally Posted by Endoscopy
I am in total agreement with your comment. Another way of saying it is true faith produces good works. Which also means faith without works is false faith. It amazes me that people on this site argue strenuously against this claiming it is salvation by works ignoring that it is the other way around, the works are evidence of true faith. Dcontroversal chief among them.
NOW NOTE WHAT I HAVE POSTED MANY TIMES AND IN HONESTY TELL ME WHO WAS FALSLY ACCUSED
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
No one has disputed that bro.....the bible is clear on the following truths
Paul-->Romans-->A man is justified (rendered innocent) before God by faith void of works
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that justifies before God (void of works) is seen by men in our works
FAITH and FAITH alone saves eternally
FAITH that saves eternally will produce fruit/works....even if but one piece!
NOW PAY ATTENTION AND BE HONEST IF YOU CAN
NOW NOTE WHAT I HAVE POSTED MANY TIMES AND IN HONESTY TELL ME WHO WAS FALSLY ACCUSED
Paul-->Romans-->A man is justified (rendered innocent) before God by faith void of works
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that justifies before God (void of works) is seen by men in our works
FAITH and FAITH alone saves eternally
FAITH that saves eternally will produce fruit/works....even if but one piece!
You keep ignoring the connection between faith and works. Why? Several different scriptures make that connection including a quote of Jesus. Why do you keep trying to sever that relationship? Using logic terminology "faith implies works". By definition if faith is true works must be true. Therefore if works is false then faith is false. That is the how they are tied together.
Another way of putting it is without works there is no faith.
Another way of putting it is without works there is no faith.
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AMEN....the truth will set you free...............
I do not understand how one can say I never have said works or fruit will accompany saving faith....have said it 50 or more times in this thread.....and YET about 4 or 5 of the constantly post that I have never said that.....
Preach can I ask you a question......what did I say in the bolded below?
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
No one has disputed that bro.....the bible is clear on the following truths
Paul-->Romans-->A man is justified (rendered innocent) before God by faith void of works
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that justifies before God (void of works) is seen by men in our works
FAITH and FAITH alone saves eternally
FAITH that saves eternally will produce fruit/works....even if but one piece!
I do not understand how one can say I never have said works or fruit will accompany saving faith....have said it 50 or more times in this thread.....and YET about 4 or 5 of the constantly post that I have never said that.....
Preach can I ask you a question......what did I say in the bolded below?
Paul-->Romans-->A man is justified (rendered innocent) before God by faith void of works
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that justifies before God (void of works) is seen by men in our works
FAITH and FAITH alone saves eternally
FAITH that saves eternally will produce fruit/works....even if but one piece!
Not hardly....this thread is discussing the MEANS OF SALVATION.....FAITH ALONE is what saves a man.....WORKS do not embellish, keep, top off, finish, maintain, secure, add to, help one gain, procure, buy, earn, facilitate, purchase, ensure, acquire salvation.......why cannot you get that.......and YOU HAVE FALSLY ACCUSED ME for DAYS....as WELL as YOUR BUDDIES......YOU HAVE ALL SAID that I HAVE CONSTANTLY argued against faith and the result of faith......
NOW PAY ATTENTION AND BE HONEST IF YOU CAN
Paul-->Romans-->A man is justified (rendered innocent) before God by faith void of works
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that justifies before God (void of works) is seen by men in our works
FAITH and FAITH alone saves eternally
FAITH that saves eternally will produce fruit/works....even if but one piece!
AMEN....the truth will set you free...............
I do not understand how one can say I never have said works or fruit will accompany saving faith....have said it 50 or more times in this thread.....and YET about 4 or 5 of the constantly post that I have never said that.....
Preach can I ask you a question......what did I say in the bolded below?
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
No one has disputed that bro.....the bible is clear on the following truths
Paul-->Romans-->A man is justified (rendered innocent) before God by faith void of works
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that justifies before God (void of works) is seen by men in our works
FAITH and FAITH alone saves eternally
FAITH that saves eternally will produce fruit/works....even if but one piece!
I do not understand how one can say I never have said works or fruit will accompany saving faith....have said it 50 or more times in this thread.....and YET about 4 or 5 of the constantly post that I have never said that.....
Preach can I ask you a question......what did I say in the bolded below?
Paul-->Romans-->A man is justified (rendered innocent) before God by faith void of works
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that justifies before God (void of works) is seen by men in our works
FAITH and FAITH alone saves eternally
FAITH that saves eternally will produce fruit/works....even if but one piece!
Logically faith implies works. No works faith is a dead faith. So saying works is required says true faith is required. Leaving out works means faith can be true or false. In logic the definition for implication is "it is not the case that the antecedent (faith) is true and the consequent (works) is false" . This shows works being true makes faith true.
Logic table antecedent=A consequent=C result=R
A C R
1 1 1
1 0 0
0 1 1
0 0 1
At 73 I still remember my college logic class. But then digital logic in electronics uses it. My carrier was mostly digital electronics.
Not hardly....this thread is discussing the MEANS OF SALVATION.....FAITH ALONE is what saves a man.....WORKS do not embellish, keep, top off, finish, maintain, secure, add to, help one gain, procure, buy, earn, facilitate, purchase, ensure, acquire salvation.......why cannot you get that.......and YOU HAVE FALSLY ACCUSED ME for DAYS....as WELL as YOUR BUDDIES......YOU HAVE ALL SAID that I HAVE CONSTANTLY argued against faith and the result of faith......
NOW PAY ATTENTION AND BE HONEST IF YOU CAN
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
No one has disputed that bro.....the bible is clear on the following truths
Paul-->Romans-->A man is justified (rendered innocent) before God by faith void of works
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that justifies before God (void of works) is seen by men in our works
FAITH and FAITH alone saves eternally
FAITH that saves eternally will produce fruit/works....even if but one piece!
NOW PAY ATTENTION AND BE HONEST IF YOU CAN
Paul-->Romans-->A man is justified (rendered innocent) before God by faith void of works
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that justifies before God (void of works) is seen by men in our works
FAITH and FAITH alone saves eternally
FAITH that saves eternally will produce fruit/works....even if but one piece!
“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”