Not By Works
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Then you are reading it wrong, because it does support that God has SAVED ALL TRUE BELIEVERS AND THEY WILL NEVER PERISH. Many who think they have come to be Saved, are not. You have to have the HOLY SPIRIT in you, and HE in turn pours GOD's LOVE into our hearts Rom. 5:5, and IT will produce a CHANGE IN US. .................................................................................................................................................................................................................. John 10:26-28 (KJV) 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand....................................................................................................................................................................................It is not ETERNAL LIFE, if you can lose it. NOTICE: It says "My sheep hear my voice" thru the Scriptures, "I know them" that is the Inner Personal LOVE Relationship that ONLY COMES THROUGH The Born Again experience, where GOD's LOVE is Placed in our hearts by the HOLY SPIRIT when HE takes up permant Residence in our hearts, John 14:16-17, and "they will follow me" NO AND IF OR MAYBE's. IT is NOT part of our SALVATION, IT IS HOW GOD'S LOVE WILL CHANGE US, Rom. 5:5 NO WE ARE NOT PERFECT, but as we mature spiritually, it changes us to be more and more like Christ. We will not be Perfect until HE gives us the Glorified Body, in the Resurrection. When we fail, we are the ones who are obedient to 1 John 1:9, and CONFESS it as Sin to HIM. NOW that is just ONE Portion of Scripture, do you want me to give you others that SUPPORT the ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED in the KJV.
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OZAZ - Once Zombied Always Zombied
If heaven was full of Zombies and God could make Zombies whenever and wherever
He likes, why have faith or a gospel?
If people who love God, but it turns to hate, are always Zombies, and God can just
switch a switch and they become loving Zombies, why do morals matter or behaviour,
because it is just Zombie programming that can be turned on or off.
This is what happens when the I goes out of salvation. Jesus puts the true I back
in our hearts, we are loved, we are accepted, we are forgiven so now we can chose
to walk and follow. He choses us and our hearts cry out Halleluyah.
And those who are called know of what I speak. To the rest it appears gobbledegook.
Universalism is founded on the idea God flips a switch and we have no role.
And in their defence the zombies turn the arguments around, as if this makes any
sense, but then what other choice do they have, and to be honest they have nothing else.
If heaven was full of Zombies and God could make Zombies whenever and wherever
He likes, why have faith or a gospel?
If people who love God, but it turns to hate, are always Zombies, and God can just
switch a switch and they become loving Zombies, why do morals matter or behaviour,
because it is just Zombie programming that can be turned on or off.
This is what happens when the I goes out of salvation. Jesus puts the true I back
in our hearts, we are loved, we are accepted, we are forgiven so now we can chose
to walk and follow. He choses us and our hearts cry out Halleluyah.
And those who are called know of what I speak. To the rest it appears gobbledegook.
Universalism is founded on the idea God flips a switch and we have no role.
And in their defence the zombies turn the arguments around, as if this makes any
sense, but then what other choice do they have, and to be honest they have nothing else.
When I said that Christians could be hypocrites, I was speaking about a moment, not a lifestyle.
A minister once said in a meeting I attended, that we all are capable of doing something given the right circumstances, the right timing, and the amount of pressure of the situation. This is momentary. Again, not a lifestyle.
Will we always take the way out? As a babe in Christ, it's possible that we won't.
A minister once said in a meeting I attended, that we all are capable of doing something given the right circumstances, the right timing, and the amount of pressure of the situation. This is momentary. Again, not a lifestyle.
Will we always take the way out? As a babe in Christ, it's possible that we won't.
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There is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not.
When that was penned....there were saved men on the earth....JESUS was right....He that is without sin cast the first stone....I can tell you that many who name JESUS would have been casting stones immediately in their self righteous condemnatory attitude......
When that was penned....there were saved men on the earth....JESUS was right....He that is without sin cast the first stone....I can tell you that many who name JESUS would have been casting stones immediately in their self righteous condemnatory attitude......
Peter 1:10 WhereforeG1352 the rather,G3123 brethren,G80 give diligenceG4704 to makeG4160 yourG5216 callingG2821 andG2532 electionG1589 sure:G949 forG1063 if ye doG4160 these things,G5023 ye shall neverG3364 G4218 fall:G4417
diligence- make speed to study
calling-invitation
election- divine selection
sure-stable
Now put it all together and what is it saying?
Ok, here is my one disagreement. I was a sinner, I may be tempted yet, but I am dead to the nature of sin and alive with the Divine nature, unto God.
I am a new creation of God in Christ Jesus...I may not yet appear to be but I know that when I see Him, I shall be like Him ..seeing Him as He is.
Now..I am the righteousness of God my Father, in My Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ!
The renewed mind of Christ is knowing our stance in Him.
I am a new creation of God in Christ Jesus...I may not yet appear to be but I know that when I see Him, I shall be like Him ..seeing Him as He is.
Now..I am the righteousness of God my Father, in My Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ!
The renewed mind of Christ is knowing our stance in Him.
What is it that we are to do to be considered righteous?
Do good works or have faith?
Romans 4:1-8
Chapter 4
Abraham Justified by Faith
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
Paul is saying that faith is counted as righteousness, he is not saying that our faith is our righteousness.
He is saying that our faith unites us to Jesus so that Gods righteousness in Jesus is reckoned/imputed to us.
So our own faith is not considered righteous only that of Jesus.
So if we place our faith in Jesus, repent of the sin of unbelief in him then what?
Firstly justified and declared righteous, not guilty and reconciled to God, through faith.
Romans 5:1-2
Chapter 5
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
So having also been sanctified (set apart) we now walk in this. Yes we get it wrong but get up again, sanctification.
Romans 8:29-30
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
As a result leading to
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
So there is no denying that in Jesus we are called for good works.
James is not saying they are considered righteous by what they they do.
He is saying if you have faith in Jesus and as a result declared righteous then works will follow.
If no works follow then do you not have genuine faith?
Works will follow faith, but they do not save us or declare us righteous.
They are evidence of us being declared righteous.
A true genuine saving faith.
Do good works or have faith?
Romans 4:1-8
Chapter 4
Abraham Justified by Faith
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
Paul is saying that faith is counted as righteousness, he is not saying that our faith is our righteousness.
He is saying that our faith unites us to Jesus so that Gods righteousness in Jesus is reckoned/imputed to us.
So our own faith is not considered righteous only that of Jesus.
So if we place our faith in Jesus, repent of the sin of unbelief in him then what?
Firstly justified and declared righteous, not guilty and reconciled to God, through faith.
Romans 5:1-2
Chapter 5
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
So having also been sanctified (set apart) we now walk in this. Yes we get it wrong but get up again, sanctification.
Romans 8:29-30
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
As a result leading to
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
So there is no denying that in Jesus we are called for good works.
James is not saying they are considered righteous by what they they do.
He is saying if you have faith in Jesus and as a result declared righteous then works will follow.
If no works follow then do you not have genuine faith?
Works will follow faith, but they do not save us or declare us righteous.
They are evidence of us being declared righteous.
A true genuine saving faith.
E
This supports OSAS. it states plainly,. whoever departs from the church and becomes against christ (a denier of christ) they were never of us. (never saved)
did you mean 5: 10? If you do, It supports OSAS. He who believes Has God has a witness. He who does nto believe has made God a liar. And is Anti Christ. Ie.. see chapter 2. Also see chapter 3 I think it is about those who sin, and they never have seen or known God. Also see John 3.
really? This talks about false teachers and false apostles who are decietful workers, Like it says, even satan comes and an angel of light. This again supports OSAS. It says not everyone4 in our churches are saved, there are false teachers who act like light we need to watch out for.
Any more?
did you mean 5: 10? If you do, It supports OSAS. He who believes Has God has a witness. He who does nto believe has made God a liar. And is Anti Christ. Ie.. see chapter 2. Also see chapter 3 I think it is about those who sin, and they never have seen or known God. Also see John 3.
really? This talks about false teachers and false apostles who are decietful workers, Like it says, even satan comes and an angel of light. This again supports OSAS. It says not everyone4 in our churches are saved, there are false teachers who act like light we need to watch out for.
Any more?
Delusion
The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
1 John 2:17
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1 John 2:15
No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
And this is what he promised us--even eternal life.
1 John 2:23-25
As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.
1 John 2:27
If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.
1 John 2:29
Quoting John is dangerous if you believe walking in sin is not a problem for
a believer. John is simple. The righteous do what is right, follow Gods will,
have eternal life if they remain in Him.
The sinners sin, are lost, in darkness and cannot love.
If out of such a passage a 1 John 1,2,3 one only says once you know God that
is it, you have to have total blinkers to the words and ideas written.
What John is emphasising is what you do reflects who and what you are and know.
Now supposed believers who teach in churches cannot read John and the plain
and simple ideas, it must mean they do not know Jesus as John declares.
And if these people do not know God, why are they listened to or respected to
any degree? Is it because the war they think they are fighting is against
hypocrites who are lost in sin but denying, while they are honest sinners who
believe they are saved while sinning. The trouble is John is saying if you are
in sin and sinning you condemn yourself to not know God.
And if ones ministry is to claim one does not condemn others, while spending all
ones time accusing the righteous of their sin, that is actually the definition of
a ministry of condemnation.
Jesus calls us to purity and freedom, the righteousness He had on the cross,
that drove Him to come to earth and become our friend. And what is so hard to
start loving others, your enemy, those who annoy you, and begin to follow?
The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
1 John 2:17
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1 John 2:15
No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
And this is what he promised us--even eternal life.
1 John 2:23-25
As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.
1 John 2:27
If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.
1 John 2:29
Quoting John is dangerous if you believe walking in sin is not a problem for
a believer. John is simple. The righteous do what is right, follow Gods will,
have eternal life if they remain in Him.
The sinners sin, are lost, in darkness and cannot love.
If out of such a passage a 1 John 1,2,3 one only says once you know God that
is it, you have to have total blinkers to the words and ideas written.
What John is emphasising is what you do reflects who and what you are and know.
Now supposed believers who teach in churches cannot read John and the plain
and simple ideas, it must mean they do not know Jesus as John declares.
And if these people do not know God, why are they listened to or respected to
any degree? Is it because the war they think they are fighting is against
hypocrites who are lost in sin but denying, while they are honest sinners who
believe they are saved while sinning. The trouble is John is saying if you are
in sin and sinning you condemn yourself to not know God.
And if ones ministry is to claim one does not condemn others, while spending all
ones time accusing the righteous of their sin, that is actually the definition of
a ministry of condemnation.
Jesus calls us to purity and freedom, the righteousness He had on the cross,
that drove Him to come to earth and become our friend. And what is so hard to
start loving others, your enemy, those who annoy you, and begin to follow?
So we need to throw out the James 2 stating faith without works is dead? Try again. To understand salvation ALL scriptures about it MUST be taken into consideration. James 2 discusses the issue of the relationship between faith and works. It says in one verse "faith without works is dead" Look at the logic of it. True faith causes a person to ACT on it. No action implies no real faith. Jesus said you shall know them by their fruits. James is just restated what Jesus said.
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Why are you apologising on behalf of others? Is that not up to them to apologise?
I don't see you thanking those on the whole who have been hospitable.
If we feel we are owed an apology, ask for it and back it up.
But I would say if we feel truly are offended then we need to forgive and let it go.
Then if we keep on feeling offended, still let it go but then don't respond to the offender.
I don't see you thanking those on the whole who have been hospitable.
If we feel we are owed an apology, ask for it and back it up.
But I would say if we feel truly are offended then we need to forgive and let it go.
Then if we keep on feeling offended, still let it go but then don't respond to the offender.
Not throwing out James at all.
Yes all scripture should be considered.
That's why I posted many more in my response to you.
Try again.
FYI
I said
James is not saying they are considered righteous by what they they do.
He is saying if you have faith in Jesus and as a result declared righteous then works will follow.
If no works follow then do you not have genuine faith?
Yes all scripture should be considered.
That's why I posted many more in my response to you.
Try again.
FYI
I said
James is not saying they are considered righteous by what they they do.
He is saying if you have faith in Jesus and as a result declared righteous then works will follow.
If no works follow then do you not have genuine faith?