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Are you suggesting that men were transformed without the Spirit of God acting on them?
I DON'T THINK SO LOL
I DON'T THINK SO LOL
Doesn't Jesus destroy him with the brightness of his coming? Let's not glorify the enemy too much.
Daniel 11 indicates he will attack the strongest fortresses. So can the AC himself then be the strongest fortress on earth?
It sounds like there will be some putting up a fight.
39 He will attack the mightiest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly honor those who acknowledge him. He will make them rulers over many people and will distribute the land at a price.
40 “At the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood. 41 He will also invade the Beautiful Land. Many countries will fall, but Edom, Moab and the leaders of Ammon will be delivered from his hand. 42 He will extend his power over many countries; Egypt will not escape. 43 He will gain control of the treasures of gold and silver and all the riches of Egypt, with the Libyansand Cushites in submission. 44 But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many. 45 He will pitch his royal tents between the seas at[f] the beautiful holy mountain. Yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him.
Daniel 11 indicates he will attack the strongest fortresses. So can the AC himself then be the strongest fortress on earth?
It sounds like there will be some putting up a fight.
39 He will attack the mightiest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly honor those who acknowledge him. He will make them rulers over many people and will distribute the land at a price.
40 “At the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood. 41 He will also invade the Beautiful Land. Many countries will fall, but Edom, Moab and the leaders of Ammon will be delivered from his hand. 42 He will extend his power over many countries; Egypt will not escape. 43 He will gain control of the treasures of gold and silver and all the riches of Egypt, with the Libyansand Cushites in submission. 44 But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many. 45 He will pitch his royal tents between the seas at[f] the beautiful holy mountain. Yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him.
H
If you read rev 14 Jesus takes the last group to heaven. The Jewish remnant.
No christians. They die under AC for refusing the mark.
The jews remaining are saved when they see Jesus on white horses. The Jewish messiah.
The jews are indeed protected. It says they are ushered to a locatiin with the enemy following to unsuccessfully destroy them.
No christians. They die under AC for refusing the mark.
The jews remaining are saved when they see Jesus on white horses. The Jewish messiah.
The jews are indeed protected. It says they are ushered to a locatiin with the enemy following to unsuccessfully destroy them.
The problem here, is that you are treating God's coming wrath as though it were some minor or common event. I don't think that neither you nor Penned, as well as many others, don't understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath. There are only two places in Revelation that give a percentage of the fatalities during God's wrath, which is at the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, a fourth and a third, respectively, which would equal over half the earth's population killed within the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. And that is not including trumpets 1, 2 and 3 nor the fatalities that result from the bowl judgments.
If you would like to have a better understanding of this topic, I am currently doing a teaching on the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments in blog format. If you are interested you can view them by clicking on "Christian Blogs" at the top of the screen, then on "Members Blogs" also at the top of the screen. Then on the left side of the screen look for "Ahwatukee" and click on it. From there it will take you to the blogs beginning with the first seal.
By the time that Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, the majority of the population of the earth will have been decimated and all human government dismantled. This is supported by when Jesus said "If those days had not be cut short, no one would survive."
An in depth study of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are paramount to understanding the severity of these events of wrath and their destruction. It is going to be the worst time in the history of the world.
If you would like to have a better understanding of this topic, I am currently doing a teaching on the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments in blog format. If you are interested you can view them by clicking on "Christian Blogs" at the top of the screen, then on "Members Blogs" also at the top of the screen. Then on the left side of the screen look for "Ahwatukee" and click on it. From there it will take you to the blogs beginning with the first seal.
By the time that Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, the majority of the population of the earth will have been decimated and all human government dismantled. This is supported by when Jesus said "If those days had not be cut short, no one would survive."
An in depth study of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are paramount to understanding the severity of these events of wrath and their destruction. It is going to be the worst time in the history of the world.
Hello PennEd,
Below is the same information that I responded to on Lucy's post:
The problem here, is that you are treating God's coming wrath as though it were some minor or common event. I don't think that neither you nor Penned, as well as many others, don't understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath. There are only two places in Revelation that give a percentage of the fatalities during God's wrath, which is at the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, a fourth and a third, respectively, which would equal over half the earth's population killed within the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. And that is not including trumpets 1, 2 and 3 nor the fatalities that result from the bowl judgments.
If you would like to have a better understanding of this topic, I am currently doing a teaching on the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments in blog format. If you are interested you can view them by clicking on "Christian Blogs" at the top of the screen, then on "Members Blogs" also at the top of the screen. Then on the left side of the screen look for "Ahwatukee" and click on it. From there it will take you to the blogs beginning with the first seal.
By the time that Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, the majority of the population of the earth will have been decimated and all human government dismantled. This is supported by when Jesus said "If those days had not be cut short, no one would survive."
An in depth study of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are paramount to understanding the severity of these events of wrath and their destruction. It is going to be the worst time in the history of the world.
Below is the same information that I responded to on Lucy's post:
The problem here, is that you are treating God's coming wrath as though it were some minor or common event. I don't think that neither you nor Penned, as well as many others, don't understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath. There are only two places in Revelation that give a percentage of the fatalities during God's wrath, which is at the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, a fourth and a third, respectively, which would equal over half the earth's population killed within the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. And that is not including trumpets 1, 2 and 3 nor the fatalities that result from the bowl judgments.
If you would like to have a better understanding of this topic, I am currently doing a teaching on the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments in blog format. If you are interested you can view them by clicking on "Christian Blogs" at the top of the screen, then on "Members Blogs" also at the top of the screen. Then on the left side of the screen look for "Ahwatukee" and click on it. From there it will take you to the blogs beginning with the first seal.
By the time that Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, the majority of the population of the earth will have been decimated and all human government dismantled. This is supported by when Jesus said "If those days had not be cut short, no one would survive."
An in depth study of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are paramount to understanding the severity of these events of wrath and their destruction. It is going to be the worst time in the history of the world.
Umm.... The total destruction of every living animal and human being save what was on the Ark wasn't "severe" enough for you to see the similitude? Also, you DO understand that you aren't the ONLY one to do serious study on eschatology don't you?
The difference seems to be you allow NO room for the possibility that YOU are wrong on some stuff.
Obviously we ALL think our view is right on the end times and Trib., or we wouldn't believe it. But it's pretty arrogant to think that you ALONE have it all figured out, to the exclusion of what others believe.
The difference seems to be you allow NO room for the possibility that YOU are wrong on some stuff.
Obviously we ALL think our view is right on the end times and Trib., or we wouldn't believe it. But it's pretty arrogant to think that you ALONE have it all figured out, to the exclusion of what others believe.
The severity of his wrath is another subject. It doesn't change his ability to preserve people through it.
I wouldn't want to go walking in Nebuchadnezzar's fiery furnace. There wouldn't be a chance of living through that would there? Yet 3 young men did.
They refused to worship the image. The King tried to take their lives. God preserved them.
I prefer it your way BTW. Before it get's too hot we are out of here. Great!
I wouldn't want to go walking in Nebuchadnezzar's fiery furnace. There wouldn't be a chance of living through that would there? Yet 3 young men did.
They refused to worship the image. The King tried to take their lives. God preserved them.
I prefer it your way BTW. Before it get's too hot we are out of here. Great!
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Wrong and that would be wrong.......one of these days you will figure out that the wrath of GOD is NOT ANNOUNCED until the 7th trump....instead of believing the lost men hiding in the caves at the 6th seal....try believing the ANNOUNCED WRATH OF GOD as BEING HERE at the 7th TRUMP IN HEAVEN BEFORE the throne.....
one of many monkey wrenches in your imminent return fable
HAHAH
one of many monkey wrenches in your imminent return fable
HAHAH
Do you actually read the Bible? Below is what is said regarding the seven bowl judgments:
"I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed. "
If the bowl judgments are the "last" plagues of wrath, then there would have to be wrath that took place before them, namely, the seals and the trumpets. Not only that, but how do explain the announcement at the opening of the 6th seal which says:
"They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
So, here at the 6th seal we have the announcement that God's wrath has come, which takes place way before the seven bowl judgments. How do you explain that? Never mind, it would just be an flawed apologetic anyway.
Why would I believe that, when the scripture is quite clear that the sky will be rolled up like a scroll and the event is taking place on the earth, ergo the mention of a great earthquake, the inhabitants fleeing to the mountains, the islands and mountains being moved due to the earthquake.
I actually read and study the information
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This makes no bloomin' sense Tank, how can the old covenant add to the new when in Hebrews the writer states it was ready to disappear.
Heb 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
Jer 31:31 “The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.
Jer 31:32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,”
Heb 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
Jer 31:31 “The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.
Jer 31:32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,”
Well, if you believe that the Lord is going to leave his bride on the earth during the time of his wrath, then you haven't done serious study on eschatology.
Let me ask you this: do you ever see the word "ekklesia" translated as "church" anywhere from chapter 4 thru 18? You won't find it and there is very good reason for that. It is because the church is no longer on the earth from that time forward.
I'm tired of this false teaching that instead of the Lord gathering his church according to his promise, people want to put the church through God's wrath instead and then have them gathered after, that is, whoever would be left alive. That certainly wouldn't be a blessed hope nor could believers comfort one another with those words. There is a big difference between the trials and tribulations that Jesus said believers would have, which come at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness vs. God's coming wrath which will come directly and purposefully from him. One the church is gathered, then God's wrath will be in operation.
If you had done a thorough study, you would see the bride/church in heaven receiving her fine linen at the wedding of the Lamb (Rev.19:6-8)and following the Lord out of heaven riding on white horses as He returns to the earth to end the age (Rev.19:14).
As Jesus said regarding that time of God's wrath, "For then there will be great tribulation, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again." That means that nothing that has previously taken place will compare to God's coming wrath and if he allowed it go on any longer, no one would be left alive.
That's because I have been studying end-time events for over 40 years and I know what I am talking about. I live in Revelation and end-time events. I would have to be positive and confident about God's word in order to be able to do the following:
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
I couldn't be doing the above if I was wishy washy in regards to God's word. Do you think that Paul and the other apostles went around compromising with the word of God. We have that same word, but Satan has infiltrated Christianity and we have false teachings now pretty much on every Biblical subject and I'm tired of reading it and hearing it!
I also think that you are confusing confidence in the word of God with arrogance. There is only one view and only one way the end is going to take place, which is according to scripture. Not the distorted versions, but what scripture states.
The underlying principle here is that those who have received Christ have been credited with his righteousness and have been reconciled to God. The wrath that every believer deserves was poured out on Christ, satisfying God's wrath completely and fully. Regarding this, scripture states that we are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath (1 Thes.1:10), that Jesus rescues us from the coming wrath (1 Thes.5:9) and that He promised to keep us out of that time of wrath (Rev.3:10).
Therefore, the wrath of God no longer rests upon believers. Yet, we have these people who, instead believing the Lord's promise to gather us before His wrath, they prefer to believe that He is going to punish us along with the wicked. And if you or others think that we would be unaffected if we were here on the earth during that time of God's wrath, then you're dreaming. But that's irrelevant because no where is the church mentioned after the end of chapter 3.
"Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.
Regarding the scripture above, Paul just got done giving a detailed account of the gathering of the church. Then he says that destruction will come upon them (unbelievers) suddenly and they will not escape. Then Paul follows with "but you, brothers." Without even reading the rest of the verse, "But you brothers" immediately infers the opposite of not escaping. And that escape will be made possible regarding what Paul just wrote about, i.e. the dead in Christ rising first and then we which remain and are still alive being changed and caught up. What would be the difference if both the righteous and the wicked got caught in the same time of wrath?
"For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,"
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
The Lord is going to gather his bride before his wrath takes place not after
Let me ask you this: do you ever see the word "ekklesia" translated as "church" anywhere from chapter 4 thru 18? You won't find it and there is very good reason for that. It is because the church is no longer on the earth from that time forward.
I'm tired of this false teaching that instead of the Lord gathering his church according to his promise, people want to put the church through God's wrath instead and then have them gathered after, that is, whoever would be left alive. That certainly wouldn't be a blessed hope nor could believers comfort one another with those words. There is a big difference between the trials and tribulations that Jesus said believers would have, which come at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness vs. God's coming wrath which will come directly and purposefully from him. One the church is gathered, then God's wrath will be in operation.
If you had done a thorough study, you would see the bride/church in heaven receiving her fine linen at the wedding of the Lamb (Rev.19:6-8)and following the Lord out of heaven riding on white horses as He returns to the earth to end the age (Rev.19:14).
As Jesus said regarding that time of God's wrath, "For then there will be great tribulation, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again." That means that nothing that has previously taken place will compare to God's coming wrath and if he allowed it go on any longer, no one would be left alive.
That's because I have been studying end-time events for over 40 years and I know what I am talking about. I live in Revelation and end-time events. I would have to be positive and confident about God's word in order to be able to do the following:
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
I couldn't be doing the above if I was wishy washy in regards to God's word. Do you think that Paul and the other apostles went around compromising with the word of God. We have that same word, but Satan has infiltrated Christianity and we have false teachings now pretty much on every Biblical subject and I'm tired of reading it and hearing it!
I also think that you are confusing confidence in the word of God with arrogance. There is only one view and only one way the end is going to take place, which is according to scripture. Not the distorted versions, but what scripture states.
The underlying principle here is that those who have received Christ have been credited with his righteousness and have been reconciled to God. The wrath that every believer deserves was poured out on Christ, satisfying God's wrath completely and fully. Regarding this, scripture states that we are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath (1 Thes.1:10), that Jesus rescues us from the coming wrath (1 Thes.5:9) and that He promised to keep us out of that time of wrath (Rev.3:10).
Therefore, the wrath of God no longer rests upon believers. Yet, we have these people who, instead believing the Lord's promise to gather us before His wrath, they prefer to believe that He is going to punish us along with the wicked. And if you or others think that we would be unaffected if we were here on the earth during that time of God's wrath, then you're dreaming. But that's irrelevant because no where is the church mentioned after the end of chapter 3.
"Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.
Regarding the scripture above, Paul just got done giving a detailed account of the gathering of the church. Then he says that destruction will come upon them (unbelievers) suddenly and they will not escape. Then Paul follows with "but you, brothers." Without even reading the rest of the verse, "But you brothers" immediately infers the opposite of not escaping. And that escape will be made possible regarding what Paul just wrote about, i.e. the dead in Christ rising first and then we which remain and are still alive being changed and caught up. What would be the difference if both the righteous and the wicked got caught in the same time of wrath?
"For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,"
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
The Lord is going to gather his bride before his wrath takes place not after
