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I was thinking of doing a write-up when I get chance (time). I have a lot of handwritten notes in my bibles to refer to but have never typed them out anywhere. Whenever I made suggestions in the past you showed no interest so I proceeded no further.
Perhaps a blog entry might be a better way to go about it?
Please understand that I think I have things to learn from you, one who has studied the word regarding this subject.
I am not trying to disprove you, only to challenge what has been taught in churches for years- that we will be whisked out of here before things get rough. In my own studies over the years based on scripture, I find too many holes in that theory.
I would give you less grief if you would admit that you may not have it ALL figured out yet.
I don't think I do. But I do have an understanding of SOME things.
Perhaps a blog entry might be a better way to go about it?
Please understand that I think I have things to learn from you, one who has studied the word regarding this subject.
I am not trying to disprove you, only to challenge what has been taught in churches for years- that we will be whisked out of here before things get rough. In my own studies over the years based on scripture, I find too many holes in that theory.
I would give you less grief if you would admit that you may not have it ALL figured out yet.
I don't think I do. But I do have an understanding of SOME things.
"I would give you less grief if you would admit that you may not have it ALL figured out yet."
Trying to destroy credibility without an ounce of proof. By saying "just admit the possibility that you're wrong".
The sum of these statements is that you have nothing.
Except maybe confusion.
There's two ways to figure out whether the Rapture is real or not.
1. Pray,read & study the scriptures.
2. Then there's the dishonest vs honest argument. Let me explain.
Find out what side the dishonest, wicked, argumentative, & deceitful people are on, & immediately you'll discover the side of the wrong.
Whenever such people who argue among themselves come together in unity, they always do so against the truth.
ALWAYS.
1. Pray,read & study the scriptures.
2. Then there's the dishonest vs honest argument. Let me explain.
Find out what side the dishonest, wicked, argumentative, & deceitful people are on, & immediately you'll discover the side of the wrong.
Whenever such people who argue among themselves come together in unity, they always do so against the truth.
ALWAYS.
Regeneration would not be possible without the gift of the Holy Spirit, which was a part of the New Covenant. So rather than hurling derogatory epithets take some time to study the difference between the Old and New Covenants. People were JUSTIFIED by grace through faith (saved) but until Christ finished His work of redemption, the Holy Spirit could not be given as a gift. It is that simple.
Yes it does say that but the persecution of the AC is not the wrath of God. The Psalm I posted was
" A thousand may fall at your side,ten thousand at your right hand,
but it will not come near you. You will only observe with your eyes
and see the punishment of the wicked."
The small point I am trying to make is that it is provable that God CAN, HAS and DOES protect his own people from the same wrath he appoints to his enemies.
People who are entrenched in the pre-trib rapture doctrine are denying that is true. Then insulting me and claiming I have no scripture to back up my point. I am asked to present evidence. I did. There is much more but if some people can't accept one small point because it doesn't support the pre-trib rapture doctrine, and follow up with insults what is the point?
" A thousand may fall at your side,ten thousand at your right hand,
but it will not come near you. You will only observe with your eyes
and see the punishment of the wicked."
The small point I am trying to make is that it is provable that God CAN, HAS and DOES protect his own people from the same wrath he appoints to his enemies.
People who are entrenched in the pre-trib rapture doctrine are denying that is true. Then insulting me and claiming I have no scripture to back up my point. I am asked to present evidence. I did. There is much more but if some people can't accept one small point because it doesn't support the pre-trib rapture doctrine, and follow up with insults what is the point?
Hello Lucy,
Everything that takes place during that last seven years is the day of the Lord, God's wrath, including everything that the AC will be performing.
That seven years will be the fulfillment of the of the seventy seven year periods that God decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem as revealed in Dan.9:24-27. That seventy sevens are divided into three parts, 7 seven year periods with 62 seven year periods added onto that, where at the end of 69 sevens the Messiah was cut off, which was Christ crucified. At that time God put a hold on that last seven years to be fulfilled in conjunction with Christ's return to the earth to end the age and began to build His church. Once the Church has been completed, the Lord will descend to the atmosphere and gather the church. Following that is when that antichrist will establish a seven year covenant with Israel, which is what initiates that last seven years for its fulfillment, with Christ returning to the earth at the close of that seven years.
During that same seven years, God will be dealing with the rest of the Christ rejecting world as recorded in Dan.2:31-45. Regarding Nebuchadnezzar's statue which represents all human government, with the ten-toed kingdom consisting of partly iron and partly clay, the Rock cut out of the mountain without human hands (Jesus) falls on the feet of the statue (human government) and smashes it to pieces like chaff on a threshing floor and blown away by the wind without leaving a trace (the end of human government). The reference to smashing the statue to pieces will be accomplished via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.
Therefore, everything that takes place during that last seven years is by God's design and belongs to His wrath.
Everything that takes place during that last seven years is the day of the Lord, God's wrath, including everything that the AC will be performing.
That seven years will be the fulfillment of the of the seventy seven year periods that God decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem as revealed in Dan.9:24-27. That seventy sevens are divided into three parts, 7 seven year periods with 62 seven year periods added onto that, where at the end of 69 sevens the Messiah was cut off, which was Christ crucified. At that time God put a hold on that last seven years to be fulfilled in conjunction with Christ's return to the earth to end the age and began to build His church. Once the Church has been completed, the Lord will descend to the atmosphere and gather the church. Following that is when that antichrist will establish a seven year covenant with Israel, which is what initiates that last seven years for its fulfillment, with Christ returning to the earth at the close of that seven years.
During that same seven years, God will be dealing with the rest of the Christ rejecting world as recorded in Dan.2:31-45. Regarding Nebuchadnezzar's statue which represents all human government, with the ten-toed kingdom consisting of partly iron and partly clay, the Rock cut out of the mountain without human hands (Jesus) falls on the feet of the statue (human government) and smashes it to pieces like chaff on a threshing floor and blown away by the wind without leaving a trace (the end of human government). The reference to smashing the statue to pieces will be accomplished via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.
Therefore, everything that takes place during that last seven years is by God's design and belongs to His wrath.
I would even add, those OT saints were not "saved" like we experience salvation after the cross. If so, they would have been absent from the body and present with the Lord upon death instead of having to go in Abraham's bosom. Thus, they were not regenerated and born again. Impossible without the shedding of Christ's blood.
Wrong and that would be wrong.......one of these days you will figure out that the wrath of GOD is NOT ANNOUNCED until the 7th trump....instead of believing the lost men hiding in the caves at the 6th seal....try believing the ANNOUNCED WRATH OF GOD as BEING HERE at the 7th TRUMP IN HEAVEN BEFORE the throne.....
one of many monkey wrenches in your imminent return fable HAHAH
one of many monkey wrenches in your imminent return fable
HAHAH
As I have stated before. I lean pre trib, but I certainly believe God protects His Children from HIS WRATH. Certainly Sodom and Gomorrah is a good example of that. The Angels HAD to remove Lot and co. Before the wrath could come.
A better modeling I believe of the trib period is the wrath God poured out on sinners with the flood.
You had those who were "raptured" before judgement. Namely Enoch.
Those that were preserved THROUGH the judgement. Noah and family.
And those that perished, or will perish in both judgements.
A better modeling I believe of the trib period is the wrath God poured out on sinners with the flood.
You had those who were "raptured" before judgement. Namely Enoch.
Those that were preserved THROUGH the judgement. Noah and family.
And those that perished, or will perish in both judgements.
If you look at Revelation and Exodus you find a number of similarities between the plagues that fell on Egypt and those featured in Revelation. This is not a passing coincidence. The story of the Hebrews experience in Egypt represent a shadow of the last days.
Egypt represents the world and Pharaoh the Antichrist. Just as Gods judgments fell on Egypt so they will fall on the unbelieving world. In the case of Egypt the Hebrews remained in Egypt throughout all the plagues up to and including the death of the first born. God protected the Hebrews from the plagues. Before the last plague God told them to mark their doorposts with the blood of the Lamb. This was the only instruction he gave them regardless as to what spiritual condition they happened to be at the time. Gods full wrath came upon Pharaoh and his army when the sea drowned them all and the Hebrews escaped and reached dry land.
Just as the plagues of Egypt got progressively worse so do those in Revelation until the wrath of God descends on an unbelieving world. The rapture happens when the bowls of wrath are emptied, just as the wrath decended on Pharoah and his army as the Hebrews crossed the red sea.
One major link between the Exodus story and Revelation is the Passover Lamb. Jesus is called the Lamb of God many times in Revelation. We are saved by the blood of the Lamb.
Egypt represents the world and Pharaoh the Antichrist. Just as Gods judgments fell on Egypt so they will fall on the unbelieving world. In the case of Egypt the Hebrews remained in Egypt throughout all the plagues up to and including the death of the first born. God protected the Hebrews from the plagues. Before the last plague God told them to mark their doorposts with the blood of the Lamb. This was the only instruction he gave them regardless as to what spiritual condition they happened to be at the time. Gods full wrath came upon Pharaoh and his army when the sea drowned them all and the Hebrews escaped and reached dry land.
Just as the plagues of Egypt got progressively worse so do those in Revelation until the wrath of God descends on an unbelieving world. The rapture happens when the bowls of wrath are emptied, just as the wrath decended on Pharoah and his army as the Hebrews crossed the red sea.
One major link between the Exodus story and Revelation is the Passover Lamb. Jesus is called the Lamb of God many times in Revelation. We are saved by the blood of the Lamb.
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The main problem involving discussions on the last days is found in people looking for differences in the Old and New Covenants. The New Covenant is an extension of Gods revelation to us not a ''New'' one. A covenant cannot be scrapped
it can only be added to. All of Gods word was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Jesus said you search the Scriptures because in them look for eternal life and they speak about me.
it can only be added to. All of Gods word was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Jesus said you search the Scriptures because in them look for eternal life and they speak about me.
This is one of the best illustrations in the OT of the Revelation judgement. The Passover. Literally PASS OVER.
Exodus 12, God brought his wrath down on the Egyptians while Israel was still among them.
He was able to strike the Egyptians and protect Israel simultaneously.
We have a mark on us (in the spirit). The blood of Jesus (the Passover lamb) is able to protect us from the wrath of God that we are not appointed for. There are people marked specifically in Revelation, some of them for The Beast but also the 144,000 first fruits of the Jews are marked for protection. The people of God are marked by the blood and the wrath of God can PASS right OVER us.
Exodus 12: 12-13
“On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord.13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.
Revelation 7
2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”
I'm not pushing a post-trib rapture, I am only asking people to consider this. If it blows a hole in the pre-trib rapture theory I'm sorry but we can't ignore whole chunks of prophetic illustration. I hope the pre-tribbers are correct I really do.
Exodus 12, God brought his wrath down on the Egyptians while Israel was still among them.
He was able to strike the Egyptians and protect Israel simultaneously.
We have a mark on us (in the spirit). The blood of Jesus (the Passover lamb) is able to protect us from the wrath of God that we are not appointed for. There are people marked specifically in Revelation, some of them for The Beast but also the 144,000 first fruits of the Jews are marked for protection. The people of God are marked by the blood and the wrath of God can PASS right OVER us.
Exodus 12: 12-13
“On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord.13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.
Revelation 7
2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”
I'm not pushing a post-trib rapture, I am only asking people to consider this. If it blows a hole in the pre-trib rapture theory I'm sorry but we can't ignore whole chunks of prophetic illustration. I hope the pre-tribbers are correct I really do.
H
It must be in perspective.
God judges and destroys his own.
Lots wife
Uzza
Aaron
Arrons sons
Davids sons
Saul and his sons
Judgement begins with his own house.
The bible says we are judged as believers here on earth,not in heaven.
If not for moses God was going to wipe out the hebrew race.
Btw most believe moses wrote ps 91
God judges and destroys his own.
Lots wife
Uzza
Aaron
Arrons sons
Davids sons
Saul and his sons
Judgement begins with his own house.
The bible says we are judged as believers here on earth,not in heaven.
If not for moses God was going to wipe out the hebrew race.
Btw most believe moses wrote ps 91