Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Heb 10:26
It will not devour those in who he began his good work . He is speaking of the other group in Hebrews 6 not being drawn by the father, self will, self righteous..better things accompany salvation to those he is drawing called redemption a living confidence to the end..
As the father draws those by His faith working in them they will come.and if they do he promises in no wise will he cast out his new creatures .
Receiving the knowledge of truth is tasting it, not eating it as the kind of food the disciples knew not of .which is doing the will of another as God works in the person to both will and do His good pleasure. Called a imputed righteousness . No man could be found with a self-righteousness of their own
For if we sin willfully as all men do when they do deny Christ in unbelief (no faith) after receiving knowledge of sin (not forgiveness of sin ) .having tasted of the good things to come which is not eating the good things to come when they fall away, the most they could expect is a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Christ cannot deny his own self that he did pay the wage in full .The better thing that accompanies salvation.
It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 2Ti 2:13
I emphasize again...Better things accompany salvation... the finishing of the work God begins in us
Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
You have to decide what is the better thing that accompanies salvation is .Remember the fact that he cannot deny himself establishes his law of faith
Removing the confidence we need daily to be forgiven daily comes from those who are looking a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. His mercy forgives those in whom he has begun the good work of salvation
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Here is your question. If he has begun the good work in us will he finish it to the end ? Yes or no?
It is obviously a no that peddles a working for dogma.........called and walk will make it....My bible states called and saved by faith will make it....it is the many that say LORD LOOK how I WALKED and WHAT I HAVE DONE......blah, blah, blah.....same working for dogma repackaged with a nice new bow......
Dear eternally-gratefull, I have lied?
I think you have confused me with someone else, and as if this is an argument.
I am sharing what Christ has shared to my heart.
And I am using words like "salvation" to mean different things in different contexts.
It obviously passed you by so I will help you.
Salvation can be seen as a thing you obtain, like buying a car. You get excited, pay the money,
then drive around in it. This has never been something I am interested in.
I am interested in Jesus and following Him. He tells us, by doing this, believing, listening, following
and putting into action His words we will be saved. But it is Him who I love and His teaching of
my heart.
Make what you will of that, I just praise the Lord, to the highest heaven, because of the cross
and His work in me. He is the King of kings, our example, our Lord, the giver life, through
repentance and faith in the cross for the forgiveness of our sins. Amen
I think you have confused me with someone else, and as if this is an argument.
I am sharing what Christ has shared to my heart.
And I am using words like "salvation" to mean different things in different contexts.
It obviously passed you by so I will help you.
Salvation can be seen as a thing you obtain, like buying a car. You get excited, pay the money,
then drive around in it. This has never been something I am interested in.
I am interested in Jesus and following Him. He tells us, by doing this, believing, listening, following
and putting into action His words we will be saved. But it is Him who I love and His teaching of
my heart.
Make what you will of that, I just praise the Lord, to the highest heaven, because of the cross
and His work in me. He is the King of kings, our example, our Lord, the giver life, through
repentance and faith in the cross for the forgiveness of our sins. Amen
Whose confidence works in us since it is not of ourselves? We could never pay the wage of one sin (eternal damnation)
Where is the confidence in that?
We are saved by the work of Christ's faith that works in us to both will and perform His good pleasure ,As we are informed in John 6 it is the work of God working in us so that we can believe Him who has no form.Without his faith working in us no man can seek after God who has no form .
Is it the living confidence that informs us if he has begun the good work salvation in us he will finish it to the end?
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:Heb 3:14
Is there another kind of confidence you were speaking of, like perhaps self confidence, self righteousness ?
Where is the confidence in that?
We are saved by the work of Christ's faith that works in us to both will and perform His good pleasure ,As we are informed in John 6 it is the work of God working in us so that we can believe Him who has no form.Without his faith working in us no man can seek after God who has no form .
Is it the living confidence that informs us if he has begun the good work salvation in us he will finish it to the end?
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:Heb 3:14
Is there another kind of confidence you were speaking of, like perhaps self confidence, self righteousness ?
E
Salvation - repentance, faith, works - founded on purity
Lose any part of the three and ones salvation goes.
Repentance - to abide in wilfull rebellion and sin. Heb 10:26-27
faith - to cease to trust God saves you and the cross forgives you. Hebrews 11:6
works - cease to exercise love flowing through ones life. James 2:26
Repentance
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Heb 10:26-27
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? ......you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Faith
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Heb 11:6
We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. Heb 3:14
Works
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead James 2:26
Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 1 Peter 3:9
Eternity is pure, without sin, holy, without blemish. What we call blemish and what God calls
blemish is different. We pick at the smallest details, the right way to be polite or show someone
we are together, or not be condemning, or not appreciating enough, or upsetting someone by
being too firm and not recognise our sinful allegiance to wealth, power, sexual desire, selfish
indulgences, holidays we just cannot go without, recognition of our achievements, what we
deserve.
We are happy to be violent within, a raging inferno, lusting after any opportunity that comes along,
wanting that bigger house, car, position, yet outside we want to be seen as being religious, following
Jesus, getting close to others and helping them, in their poor state of spiritual distress.
Little wonder purity is rejected or intimacy and closeness, it would result in a explosion with many injuries.
But this is what Jesus saw in the pharisees. He saw much that was good, but without taming the heart
and being gentle within, there is no real hope of showing true love without.
2. You claim salvation is found on purity
can you resolve what you just said with what you posted earlier.
If you do not care for salvation, I fear you are a dangerous man, so please. help everyone understand.
I would answer this simply. Jesus is our foundation, the source of all our life.
Our work is about people of the Kingdom of Heaven walking in ministry one with another.
If we stumble, we confess, repent and accept forgiveness.
Our confidence is always in the foundation and the ongoing work in our lives.
You make it sound like it could be self work.
The real danger is keeping ones heart in the right place and meeting the challenges
day by day.
Listen to Jesus talking to the churches in revelation. Nothing is guaranteed, it is about
our walk, and communion with God, and so it will be eternally.
Some talk as if a walk is insecure and full of doubt. But those who talk this way have
never actually started, and talk as if being a white washed tomb is the way God intended
us to be.
Our work is about people of the Kingdom of Heaven walking in ministry one with another.
If we stumble, we confess, repent and accept forgiveness.
Our confidence is always in the foundation and the ongoing work in our lives.
You make it sound like it could be self work.
The real danger is keeping ones heart in the right place and meeting the challenges
day by day.
Listen to Jesus talking to the churches in revelation. Nothing is guaranteed, it is about
our walk, and communion with God, and so it will be eternally.
Some talk as if a walk is insecure and full of doubt. But those who talk this way have
never actually started, and talk as if being a white washed tomb is the way God intended
us to be.
R
It's true that the law can not cancel sin in a person. But that's hardly an excuse to not cancel sin at all, and that it is okay if you don't because of 'once saved always saved', and 'that would be works if you tried'.
Sin is canceled in a person's behavior by submitting to the Holy Spirit. The problem seems to be in getting believers to know they have to do that as an obligation to the Spirit, and teaching them how to do it.
I have found that Christian growth seems to be about God getting us to WANT to cancel our sin-having our minds changed about sin. And so it is true what Paul says,"We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God"-Acts 14:22. We go through many hardships and beatings before we get convinced that we need to start submitting to the power of God in us to stop sinning. This pattern of growing up shows we really do have the Holy Spirit inside of us in salvation.
Sin is canceled in a person's behavior by submitting to the Holy Spirit. The problem seems to be in getting believers to know they have to do that as an obligation to the Spirit, and teaching them how to do it.
I have found that Christian growth seems to be about God getting us to WANT to cancel our sin-having our minds changed about sin. And so it is true what Paul says,"We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God"-Acts 14:22. We go through many hardships and beatings before we get convinced that we need to start submitting to the power of God in us to stop sinning. This pattern of growing up shows we really do have the Holy Spirit inside of us in salvation.
N
are you implying the Holy spirit doesnt work in those who are saved?
no one here who follows the true gospel encourages sin
you have implied this lie many times and said it out right
so im asking to confirm if the message you are trying to push with this is
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
"those who believe in this promise think it is ok to sin"
if you are
youre lying again
no one here who follows the true gospel encourages sin
you have implied this lie many times and said it out right
so im asking to confirm if the message you are trying to push with this is
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
"those who believe in this promise think it is ok to sin"
if you are
youre lying again
For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thessalonians 4:7
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
matt 5:8
Set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity.
1 Timothy 4:12
Treat younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity.
1 Timothy 5:1-2
To those who reject purity, you reject the gospel and claim being impure is acceptable to God.
For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:5-7
The testimony of scripture testifies against those who deceive with compromise about purity.
These are not my ideas, but Gods revelation.
N
bump again for ralph
the point of this thread
is once you are born again
you are His child and saved
all glory to salvation goes to Jesus
_______
the walk AS a new creature who cannot lose his/her salvation is a completely different topic
many blind sheep
and wolves alike come here
trying to take away or add to the sacrifice of Jesus
the walk of a christian
____
pray constantly
examine yourself to see if you are the spirit
deny the flesh
encourage to DO good works (not to save yourself but out of love for Him who loved you first)
and to build our brothers and sisters up
help them if they stumble
and the fruits of walking in the spirit
im sure we all know
love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
meekness, temperance
we should also say charity
but none of these things save us
or keep us saved
this is God providing the transformation
no one should look at Gods grace or the GIFT of salvation to those who believe on the name of Jesus as a "now i can do all these sins i love" card
if you love these sins so much you dont even care what Jesus had to go through and it doesnt hurt your new heart that youre choosing flesh
id say examine yourself
because that sounds like the old heart to me
many of those you argue with ralph
agree with me on this
the reason you dont
TO ME seems like you think it also takes works to justify a man
not "only" by grace through faith
you add to this
otherwise we would be of one mind here
you also dont seem to agree that
1 Peter 1:23
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
________
Philippians 1:6
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
believers SHOULD INDEED be confident im this
you seem to be offended by "not by works"
even though its clear as day that we arent saved by works
if you truely want to encourage good works to ALREADY SAVED brothers and sisters
theres a better way to do it than impute what you think they believe over their actual beliefs when you talk to them
with sly
underhanded
and snarky remarks
i forgive you
also ive been snarky to you
please forgive me
but no one here thinks the Holy spirit wont provide fruit to those born of God
even though many have implied that WRONGLY
bumb again for ralph
God looks to the heart and not works
men look to works
1 Samuel 16:7
7 But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.
_____________
romans
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
the point of this thread
is once you are born again
you are His child and saved
all glory to salvation goes to Jesus
_______
the walk AS a new creature who cannot lose his/her salvation is a completely different topic
many blind sheep
and wolves alike come here
trying to take away or add to the sacrifice of Jesus
the walk of a christian
____
pray constantly
examine yourself to see if you are the spirit
deny the flesh
encourage to DO good works (not to save yourself but out of love for Him who loved you first)
and to build our brothers and sisters up
help them if they stumble
and the fruits of walking in the spirit
im sure we all know
love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
meekness, temperance
we should also say charity
but none of these things save us
or keep us saved
this is God providing the transformation
no one should look at Gods grace or the GIFT of salvation to those who believe on the name of Jesus as a "now i can do all these sins i love" card
if you love these sins so much you dont even care what Jesus had to go through and it doesnt hurt your new heart that youre choosing flesh
id say examine yourself
because that sounds like the old heart to me
many of those you argue with ralph
agree with me on this
the reason you dont
TO ME seems like you think it also takes works to justify a man
not "only" by grace through faith
you add to this
otherwise we would be of one mind here
you also dont seem to agree that
1 Peter 1:23
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
________
Philippians 1:6
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
believers SHOULD INDEED be confident im this
you seem to be offended by "not by works"
even though its clear as day that we arent saved by works
if you truely want to encourage good works to ALREADY SAVED brothers and sisters
theres a better way to do it than impute what you think they believe over their actual beliefs when you talk to them
with sly
underhanded
and snarky remarks
i forgive you
also ive been snarky to you
please forgive me
but no one here thinks the Holy spirit wont provide fruit to those born of God
even though many have implied that WRONGLY
bumb again for ralph
God looks to the heart and not works
men look to works
1 Samuel 16:7
7 But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.
_____________
romans
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.