Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I looked at the Greek for this, and its my opinion that these are people who attend a church, but they feel no need to repent and turn to the Lord. Many sit in churches all over and listen to dry sermons about stories of good people and their lives, what men has accomplished or whatever they do talk about.
When the Lord says He counsels them to buy gold tried in the fire, that is speaking of Himself being the prized possession. Gold means deity symbolically. And the white raiment is something that only the redeemed have. White is Leukos meaning light.
Jesus is the light of the world and He floods our spirits once in darkness, to light. They were lacking.
So Jesus is speaking to people who sit in churches, thinking they are good with no real need, they have all of the world.
When the Lord says He counsels them to buy gold tried in the fire, that is speaking of Himself being the prized possession. Gold means deity symbolically. And the white raiment is something that only the redeemed have. White is Leukos meaning light.
Jesus is the light of the world and He floods our spirits once in darkness, to light. They were lacking.
So Jesus is speaking to people who sit in churches, thinking they are good with no real need, they have all of the world.
Well, that's a good thing to do Ralph, and I commend you for this. But, am cutting to the chase here....the scriptures say that God is looking for worshippers, who worship Him in Spirit and truth. He wants us to sit at His feet. To listen to His Voice. To walk with Him and listen for that direction which way to go. And to carry His Presence always. Be a Mary.
Do this and one will never worry about loss. Works will flow naturally out.
Im not trying to one up you here. Just hopefully help.
speaktomes post there is a glitch with my iPad.
Do this and one will never worry about loss. Works will flow naturally out.
Im not trying to one up you here. Just hopefully help.
speaktomes post there is a glitch with my iPad.
R
Stay in a bad marriage for the sole reason because God said to. Many Christians don't even do
that one. So many in fact that it is statistically proven that the church as a whole looks just like the world in that point. And now it seems sexual immorality in general is the point in which the church looks just like the world.
You're missing the point here anyway. Even though Christians can do things unbelievers can't, the point is Christians are characterized by the things that the world is not. And characterized by them more and more as they grow up in him. Remember, I told you it is the lifestyle of righteousness that distinguishes the sinning saint from the unbeliever living in sin. Sinning saints sin, but they don't live in sin like the people of the world do. Works of righteousness really do distinguish the believer from the unbeliever. But nowadays only the confession of Christ is what distinguishes the church from the world. The church is deceived.
that one. So many in fact that it is statistically proven that the church as a whole looks just like the world in that point. And now it seems sexual immorality in general is the point in which the church looks just like the world.
You're missing the point here anyway. Even though Christians can do things unbelievers can't, the point is Christians are characterized by the things that the world is not. And characterized by them more and more as they grow up in him. Remember, I told you it is the lifestyle of righteousness that distinguishes the sinning saint from the unbeliever living in sin. Sinning saints sin, but they don't live in sin like the people of the world do. Works of righteousness really do distinguish the believer from the unbeliever. But nowadays only the confession of Christ is what distinguishes the church from the world. The church is deceived.
Jesus said that by their fruits you shall know them.
Matthew 7
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
The Wise and Foolish Builders
24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.
Here is a discussion of the issue.
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-15-salvation-and-good-works-ephesians-210
Matthew 7
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
The Wise and Foolish Builders
24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.
Here is a discussion of the issue.
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-15-salvation-and-good-works-ephesians-210
E
Dude you have Gull. We are not here 24/7, I did nto even see your challenge until right. Before I responded to you the first time. The only reason I even posted 4 commentaries (I did nto even say I agreed with them) was to prove you once again are in error. And just want to fight, you just proved it again.
1. That did not agree with you, It says plainly,. That these people. Are sanctified, That God has perfected them forever, It does nto say they LOST SALVATION. Like your trying to prove, it says the OPPOSITE.
2nd, Can you show where they went to hell? According to the commentator. They did nto go to hell. That was not the punishment, it was physical death (ie, they had sinned a sinned which lead to the death penalty) If anyone needs to see your works self righteous gospel. There it is.
Either way you just proved how untrustworthy and how arrogant you are. You asked for 4, and I gave 4, Yet here you are STILL trying to puff yourself up.
Get a life man.
E
I looked up 7 commentaries. 1 of them was a short commentary, and to be honest, I could not figure out what the commentator was saying. 1 spoke of the (sin of apostasy) as being continuing in animal sacrifice at the temple. Ie, after believing in jesus, they continued to focus on animal sacrrifice, I could havce used that, but the commentator did not say one way or the other if he believed the guy was still saved, or lost salvation. 2 agreed with his view that apostasy means loss of salvation. Then I had these 4, which said apostasy does NOT mean a loss of salvation. But will result in chastening (SEVERE) one even I used David as an excuse, He committed 2 grave sins (murder and adultry) and God chastened him with the death of his child. And although he was forgiven forever, He suffered greatly from that point forward (as he said some things are WORSE that death)
either way,. The fact he continues just goes to prove he is not here for any honest discussion at all. Only to attack those he disagrees with..
either way,. The fact he continues just goes to prove he is not here for any honest discussion at all. Only to attack those he disagrees with..
Speaking of commentaries... I started reading one by Martin Luther, on Galatians...
"Grace involves the remission of sins, peace and a happy conscience. Sin is not canceled by lawful living, for no person is able to live up to the Law. The Law reveals guilt, fills the conscience with terror, and drives men to despair. Much less is sin taken away by man-invented endeavors."
"Grace involves the remission of sins, peace and a happy conscience. Sin is not canceled by lawful living, for no person is able to live up to the Law. The Law reveals guilt, fills the conscience with terror, and drives men to despair. Much less is sin taken away by man-invented endeavors."
E
Amen, it either causes a burden so severe one can not maintain (thus many walk away) or religion. A place where we water down Gods law. And focus on all these overt sins such as murder, adultry, porn, drinking, smoking, cussing and things which can be seen, and ignore the sins which happen in private or sins of the heart which can not be seen, They become modern day pharisees, and can not even see it.
E
Amen, and one of the symptoms you will see is they are very judgmental. They like to belittle people. They will present with a very self righteous attitude, and all they want to talk about is sin, and judgment, (Ie, Thank God I am not like the sinner, They will teach REPENT REPENT, when they do nto even realise what it means) the terms grace and mercy seem foreign to them because they do nto understand what they mean.
Salvation - repentance, faith, works - founded on purity
Lose any part of the three and ones salvation goes.
Repentance - to abide in wilfull rebellion and sin. Heb 10:26-27
faith - to cease to trust God saves you and the cross forgives you. Hebrews 11:6
works - cease to exercise love flowing through ones life. James 2:26
Repentance
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Heb 10:26-27
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? ......you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Faith
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Heb 11:6
We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. Heb 3:14
Works
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead James 2:26
Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 1 Peter 3:9
Eternity is pure, without sin, holy, without blemish. What we call blemish and what God calls
blemish is different. We pick at the smallest details, the right way to be polite or show someone
we are together, or not be condemning, or not appreciating enough, or upsetting someone by
being too firm and not recognise our sinful allegiance to wealth, power, sexual desire, selfish
indulgences, holidays we just cannot go without, recognition of our achievements, what we
deserve.
We are happy to be violent within, a raging inferno, lusting after any opportunity that comes along,
wanting that bigger house, car, position, yet outside we want to be seen as being religious, following
Jesus, getting close to others and helping them, in their poor state of spiritual distress.
Little wonder purity is rejected or intimacy and closeness, it would result in a explosion with many injuries.
But this is what Jesus saw in the pharisees. He saw much that was good, but without taming the heart
and being gentle within, there is no real hope of showing true love without.
Lose any part of the three and ones salvation goes.
Repentance - to abide in wilfull rebellion and sin. Heb 10:26-27
faith - to cease to trust God saves you and the cross forgives you. Hebrews 11:6
works - cease to exercise love flowing through ones life. James 2:26
Repentance
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Heb 10:26-27
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? ......you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Faith
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Heb 11:6
We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. Heb 3:14
Works
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead James 2:26
Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 1 Peter 3:9
Eternity is pure, without sin, holy, without blemish. What we call blemish and what God calls
blemish is different. We pick at the smallest details, the right way to be polite or show someone
we are together, or not be condemning, or not appreciating enough, or upsetting someone by
being too firm and not recognise our sinful allegiance to wealth, power, sexual desire, selfish
indulgences, holidays we just cannot go without, recognition of our achievements, what we
deserve.
We are happy to be violent within, a raging inferno, lusting after any opportunity that comes along,
wanting that bigger house, car, position, yet outside we want to be seen as being religious, following
Jesus, getting close to others and helping them, in their poor state of spiritual distress.
Little wonder purity is rejected or intimacy and closeness, it would result in a explosion with many injuries.
But this is what Jesus saw in the pharisees. He saw much that was good, but without taming the heart
and being gentle within, there is no real hope of showing true love without.