Not By Works

[NoNameMcgee]

the point of this thread

is once you are born again

you are His child and saved

all glory to salvation goes to Jesus

_______

the walk AS a new creature who cannot lose his/her salvation is a completely different topic

many blind sheep
and wolves alike come here
trying to take away or add to the sacrifice of Jesus

the walk of a christian

____

pray constantly
examine yourself to see if you are the spirit

deny the flesh

encourage to DO good works (not to save yourself but out of love for Him who loved you first)

and to build our brothers and sisters up

help them if they stumble

and the fruits of walking in the spirit

im sure we all know

love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
meekness, temperance

we should also say charity

but none of these things save us
or keep us saved

this is God providing the transformation


no one should look at Gods grace or the GIFT of salvation to those who believe on the name of Jesus as a "now i can do all these sins i love" card

if you love these sins so much you dont even care what Jesus had to go through and it doesnt hurt your new heart that youre choosing flesh

id say examine yourself

because that sounds like the old heart to me

ive posted this now 4 times i believe

many of those you argue with ralph
agree with me on this

the reason you dont


TO ME seems like you think it also takes works to justify a man

not "only" by grace through faith

you add to this

otherwise we would be of one mind here


you also dont seem to agree that
1 Peter 1:23
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

________

Philippians 1:6
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:


believers SHOULD INDEED be confident im this


you seem to be offended by "not by works"

even though its clear as day that we arent saved by works


if you truely want to encourage good works to ALREADY SAVED brothers and sisters


theres a better way to do it than impute what you think they believe over their actual beliefs when you talk to them

with sly
underhanded
and snarky remarks

i forgive you
also ive been snarky to you

please forgive me


but no one here thinks the Holy spirit wont provide fruit to those born of God

even though many have implied that WRONGLY

bumb again for ralph

God looks to the heart and not works

men look to works

1 Samuel 16:7
7 But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

_____________

romans
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[Ralph-]

Wrong again....when I see the blood I will pass over you....the blood is applied by faith not works....

And we know where the blood has been applied by faith by if a person is changed into a person who is growing up into the fruit of the Spirit. No change means no blood has been applied.

 

[Ralph-]

bumb again for ralph

God looks to the heart and not works

men look to works

1 Samuel 16:7
7 But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

_____________

romans
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

We know what's in a man's heart by his outward life.

“The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil"-Luke 6:45

 

[Ralph-]

there are NO scriptures in context that state a man is saved BY WORKS, kept saved by works or that salvation is topped off or embellished by our works

That is right, works play no role whatsoever in receiving the forgiveness of God. Works show that we have received it.

Dead faith shows that you do not have the forgiveness of God in salvation. That 'faith' will not save you from the fire when Jesus returns.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

We know what's in a man's heart by his outward life.

“The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil"-Luke 6:45

God knows a mans heart based on the incorruptible seed

Ezekiel 36:26
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh


1 Peter 1:23
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 John 5:4-12
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.



1 Samuel 16:7
7 But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

 

[mj007]

Is working on your faith, a work? Or is faith something that magically stays with you forever and ever and you never have to work at it, especially in the times where it is tested?

 

[dcontroversal]

Faith is a gift from God, it is dealt in measure, it can be increased, it can be tested, it can be weak and almost ineffectual, but as a spiritual gift will always remain in those who have genuinely believed.

Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. HE will COMPLETE that good work of faith HE BEGAN in ALL who have been genuinely saved.

To say one can lose it to the point of losing that which is unlosable (salvation) is to say that Christ is weak, a liar and cannot finish what he started.

Hope in the bible (based upon faith) equates to a full assurance of something Guaranteed........

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Is working on your faith, a work? Or is faith something that magically stays with you forever and ever and you never have to work at it, especially in the times where it is tested?

are you saying it magically came in the first place?

those who are born again

are sealed


this was posted already

so another bump

(also i would point to the top of the page... if youre wondering how the walk SHOULD not HAS to look for someone born again)
vvvv

to those who misunderstand hebrews 6 and take it out of context




Romans 1:28-29

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

________
1 john

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


______________


Hebrews 6
6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

___________

there are those who hear the call

but are not chosen

they were not born again or they no doubt would have continued in faith

__________

proof of tasting the Holy spirit but not being born again BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF



7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.






Philippians 1:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ

 

[Ralph-]

Ezekiel 36:26
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh

You can't separate the above verse from the one immediately following it...


27“I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances."-Ezekiel 36:27


The result of having a new heart is that it causes you to follow God's commands. Where we see an ever increasing obedience to God's commands is where the new heart resides. Works show you to have a new heart through faith in Christ. No change of life means no change of heart through Christ by faith has occurred.

 

[Ralph-]

those who are born again

are sealed

And we know who has this seal by how they live.

Our works show if we have the Spirit of God in us and are ready to meet Jesus when he returns.
No change of life means you do not know Christ in salvation and you are not ready to meet him.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

You can't separate the above verse from the one immediately following it...


27“I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances."-Ezekiel 36:27

gees ralph

read the whole thing

stop making straw men

no one disagrees that we ought to be careful and walk in the spirit


we are saying thats not what saves


scroll up

 

[mj007]

So do you mean 100% follows God's command, as in faultlessly follows God's command?

Are there any of these people on this site?

You can't separate the above verse from the one immediately following it...


27“I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances."-Ezekiel 36:27


The result of having a new heart is that it causes you to follow God's commands. Where we see an ever increasing obedience to God's commands is where the new heart resides. Works show you to have a new heart through faith in Christ. No change of life means no change of heart through Christ by faith has occurred.

 

[Ralph-]

To say one can lose it to the point of losing that which is unlosable (salvation) is to say that Christ is weak, a liar and cannot finish what he started.

Hope in the bible (based upon faith) equates to a full assurance of something Guaranteed........

This does not change the fact that you have to have works when Jesus returns or you show yourself to not be saved.

That's what people need to know so they will not be deceived and led astray into a doctrine that so many people use to rationalize dead faith as being able to save.

 

[dcontroversal]

This does not change the fact that you have to have works when Jesus returns or you show yourself to not be saved.

That's what people need to know so they will not be deceived and led astray into a doctrine that so many people use to rationalize dead faith as being able to save.

You can forget the drivel in the bolded above....he looks for the blood...not our works....and the saved will be REWARDED for service/works/or a lack of works at the BEMA seat of Christ NOT the GREAT White Throne where ONLY the lost will be judged....wake up man....your café blend is false and contrary to the bible.....and get it through your head that salvation is based entirely upon faith........

HE states clearly...WHEN I SEE THE BLOOD, NOT WORKS, I WILL PASS OVER YOU

 

[mj007]

Here's the thing. Maybe everyone is right to a degree.

And no-one here is perfectly right.

But added altogether, there is more righteousness, than being x vs. y

We all have different minds, we are not computers, we all think differently.

Do we practice loving one another, more than we practise being more right that the other?

if thats what ralph is saying

he is wrong....

like usual

 

[Ralph-]

So do you mean 100% follows God's command, as in faultlessly follows God's command?

Are there any of these people on this site?

Note 'ever increasing' in my post.

 

[mj007]

Ralph is still a person. Do you think he is precious to God? Regardless of any errors? Are you errorless David?

You can forget the drivel in the bolded above....he looks for the blood...not our works....and the saved will be REWARDED for service/works/or a lack of works at the BEMA seat of Christ NOT the GREAT White Throne where ONLY the lost will be judged....wake up man....your café blend is false and contrary to the bible.....and get it through your head that salvation is based entirely upon faith........

HE states clearly...WHEN I SEE THE BLOOD, NOT WORKS, I WILL PASS OVER YOU

 

[mj007]

I see what you mean, only increasing and never falling, even if it's never 100%. A symptom of salvation, rather than proudly announcing that you are saved, or making out others are not. Is making out people are not saved, a symptom of salvation?

Note 'ever increasing' in my post.

 

[joefizz]

And we know who has this seal by how they live.

Our works show if we have the Spirit of God in us and are ready to meet Jesus when he returns.
No change of life means you do not know Christ in salvation and you are not ready to meet him.

And so who that is saved have you witnessed with no works of faith?any "actual proof" or can you only "presume"?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Here's the thing. Maybe everyone is right to a degree.

And no-one here is perfectly right.

But added altogether, there is more righteousness, than being x vs. y

We all have different minds, we are not computers, we all think differently.

Do we practice loving one another, more than we practise being more right that the other?

the truth isnt subjective


this thread is about what saves

which the bible clearly states


you are somewhat right though

not all eyes can see
or ears can hear