Not By Works

[Ralph-]

Aaaand we're back to you deciding who is saved or not.

I guess I better not call you a hypocrite again or you'll start whining about being "attacked" and thundering cancer threats down on me.

Who said you can not call me a hypocrite? What you can not do is harass me about it. But the danger of becoming sick and possibly dying is for believers who don't recognize the body of Christ, not for unbelievers. You're good.

 

[dcontroversal]

Wrong that I was answering the wrong passage of scripture. Yep. Even told you so.

Wrong that there is no present tense verb in the passages we discussed. Nope, I'm right about that.

No....you're not right Both verb tenses used in 5:20 and 6:1 proved you wrong.....and ALL who read this thread can see it.....you can argue all the day long and you are still wrong.....

 

[Ralph-]

Yet, you still sin. Hypocrite.

When you get born again you will be able to see the difference between Galatians 5:19-21 and 1 John 1:9.

Hmmmm...okay. Let's say for my works I give one dollar to the Salvation Army at Christmas time. And every year I give one dollar more. Is that enough works to show progression?

Or does one have to become a missionary to Africa?

First get born again. Then love your enemies. unbelievers can't do that.

 

[dcontroversal]

Ralph....you're wrong....

What does a verb show? <---a STATE OF ACTION...YES or NO?

Note the following.....all verbs are in the aorist subjunctive active voice......and what does this mean...
The difference between these tenses is generally not one of time, but of aspect. Thus when a subjunctive verb is used prospectively to refer to a future event or situation , the aorist is used to refer to an event, the present to a situation (or habitual series of events):

HENCE a FUTURE EVENT OR SERIES OF HABITUAL EVENTS.........

Ralph...you are wrong and verb tense proves you wrong.....accept the truth


[TABLE="class: cms_table_cms_table_maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]3551 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]nomos[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]νόμος[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"][the] law[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]N-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]1161 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]de[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]δὲ[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]moreover[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]3922 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]pareisēlthen[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]παρεισῆλθεν[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]entered,[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]V-AIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]2443 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]hina[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]ἵνα[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]that[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]4121 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]pleonasē[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]πλεονάσῃ[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]might abound[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]V-ASA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]to[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]τὸ[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]the[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]Art-NNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]3900 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]paraptōma[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]παράπτωμα·[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]transgression;[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]N-NNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]3757 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]hou[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]οὗ[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]where[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]1161 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]de[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]δὲ[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]however[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]4121 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]epleonasen[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]ἐπλεόνασεν[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]abounded[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]V-AIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]hē[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]ἡ[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]Art-NFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]266 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]hamartia[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]ἁμαρτία,[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]sin,[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]N-NFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]5248 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]hypereperisseusen[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]ὑπερεπερίσσευσεν[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]overabounded[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]V-AIA-3S--->Part of Speech: Verb

Tense: Aorist
Mood: Subjunctive
Voice: Active

Person: 3rd Person
Number: Singular[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]hē[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]ἡ[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]Art-NFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]5485 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]charis[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]χάρις,[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]grace,[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]N-NFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Ralph-]

No....you're not right Both verb tenses used in 5:20 and 6:1 proved you wrong.....and ALL who read this thread can see it.....you can argue all the day long and you are still wrong.....

Repost them if you want. You said 'continually' was in the present tense. It is in the future tense, and abounding is in the aorist tense.

They will see I did answer in one post to Romans 5:20 when you had been talking about romans 6:1. I acknowledged the error right in our discussion. That didn't change the fact that you are interpreting the Romans passages incorrectly. Grace does not make it so you can sin more and more and grace covers it all the more, in effect, making grace a license to sin whether you want to see that or not.

 

[dcontroversal]

Ralph you're wrong.....

Maybe you do not know Greek as well as you think you do...."ing" shows state of action
[TABLE="class: cms_table_maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]5101 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]Ti[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]Τί[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]What[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]IPro-ANS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]3767 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]oun[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]οὖν[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]then[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]2046 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]eroumen[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]ἐροῦμεν;[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]will we say?[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]V-FIA-1P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]1961 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]epimenōmen[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]ἐπιμένωμεν[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]Shall we continue[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]V-PSA-1P <-----Part of Speech: Verb

Tense: Present
Mood: Subjunctive
Voice: Active

Person: 1st Person
Number: Plural[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]tē[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]τῇ[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]Art-DFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]266 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]hamartia[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]ἁμαρτίᾳ,[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]in sin,[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]N-DFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]2443 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]hina[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]ἵνα[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]that[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]hē[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]ἡ[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]Art-NFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]5485 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]charis[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]χάρις[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]grace[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]N-NFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]4121 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]pleonasē[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]πλεονάσῃ;[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]might abound?[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]V-ASA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[dcontroversal]

Repost them if you want. You said 'continually' was in the present tense. It is in the future tense, and abounding is in the aorist tense.

They will see I did answer in one post to Romans 5:20 when you had been talking about romans 6:1. I acknowledged the error right in our discussion. That didn't change the fact that you are interpreting the Romans passages incorrectly. Grace does not make it so you can sin more and more and grace covers it all the more, in effect, making grace a license to sin whether you want to see that or not.

You are false and I never said the bolded....

 

[heartofdavid]

A) NEAR unto is NOT IS
B) Saved SO AS BY FIRE "1st Corinthians 3" and saved is saved

Yes,it is something God does.
It is his property.
Not yours.

I gave two verses where BELIEVERS DEPART.

I LEAVE Gods judgement to God.
If they are saved as through fire ( hopefully they are) then that did not ERASE that they departed.

This is where the discussion goes south.
I am fine with what the word says.
I don't need to change it for some doctrine.

It says both.

BTW,I AM THE ONE THAT BROUGHT UP "SAVED BY FIRE"
You guys were oblivious

 

[Budman]

Who said you can not call me a hypocrite? What you can not do is harass me about it. But the danger of becoming sick and possibly dying is for believers who don't recognize the body of Christ, not for unbelievers. You're good.

I believe Jesus is the Son of God. I believe He died and rose again on the third day for the remission of my sins. Not mine only, but for the sins of the whole world.

But, according to god (Oops, I mean, Ralph) I'm not saved because I don't listen to him, nor bow and scrape before him, and I "attack" him by disagreeing with his pronouncements from on high.

You deserve nothing but pity.

 

[dcontroversal]

When you get born again you will be able to see the difference between Galatians 5:19-21 and 1 John 1:9.



First get born again. Then love your enemies. unbelievers can't do that.

This is rich coming from you....HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHA I about spit coffee all over reading this.....man....take your own advice.....it will allow you to understand the word in general........start with John 3:16, John 3:36, Titus 3:5, Ephesians 2:8-10, a few verses in Romans.....etc.....

 

[Budman]

You are false and I never said the bolded....

You know, at this point, it would be strange if Ralph didn't lie.

 

[Ralph-]

Ralph you're wrong.....

Maybe you do not know Greek as well as you think you do...."ing" shows state of action
[TABLE="class: cms_table_maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]5101 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]Ti[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]Τί[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]What[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]IPro-ANS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]3767 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]oun[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]οὖν[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]then[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]2046 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]eroumen[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]ἐροῦμεν;[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]will we say?[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]V-FIA-1P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]1961 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]epimenōmen[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]ἐπιμένωμεν[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]Shall we continue[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]V-PSA-1P <-----Part of Speech: Verb

Tense: Present
Mood: Subjunctive
Voice: Active

Person: 1st Person
Number: Plural[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]tē[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]τῇ[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]Art-DFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]266 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]hamartia[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]ἁμαρτίᾳ,[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]in sin,[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]N-DFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]2443 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]hina[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]ἵνα[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]that[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]hē[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]ἡ[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]Art-NFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]5485 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]charis[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]χάρις[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]grace[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]N-NFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]4121 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]pleonasē[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]πλεονάσῃ;[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]might abound?[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]V-ASA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I don't know your source, but here's mine, Strong's: https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rom/6/1/t_conc_1052001

No present tense in the verse.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes,it is something God does.
It is his property.
Not yours.

I gave two verses where BELIEVERS DEPART.

I LEAVE Gods judgement to God.
If they are saved as through fire ( hopefully they are) then that did not ERASE that they departed.

This is where the discussion goes south.
I am fine with what the word says.
I don't need to change it for some doctrine.

It says both.

BTW,I AM THE ONE THAT BROUGHT UP "SAVED BY FIRE"
You guys were oblivious

The bolded belies the fact that you do not believe 1st Corinthians 3.......and PAUL'S inspired testimony......OBLIVIOUS????? lay off the juice...we have been quoting it for years in here to workers for and sinless perfectionists......

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Yes,it is something God does.
It is his property.
Not yours.

I gave two verses where BELIEVERS DEPART.

I LEAVE Gods judgement to God.
If they are saved as through fire ( hopefully they are) then that did not ERASE that they departed.

This is where the discussion goes south.
I am fine with what the word says.
I don't need to change it for some doctrine.

It says both.

BTW,I AM THE ONE THAT BROUGHT UP "SAVED BY FIRE"
You guys were oblivious

you mean when you took hebrews way out of context....?

that one isnt hard to get

i can see where you made your error

but light has been shined on that with well over two other verses here...

many times

 

[dcontroversal]

I don't know your source, but here's mine, Strong's: https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rom/6/1/t_conc_1052001

No present tense in the verse.

ARE you dense? The verb tense is listed just to the right of the verb....it is a PRESENT SUBJUNCTIVE ACTIVE 1st PERSON PLURAL.....quit rejecting the truth and just receive correction and get right......

[TABLE="class: cms_table_cms_table_maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]1961 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]epimenōmen[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]ἐπιμένωμεν[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]Shall we continue[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]V-PSA-1P <-----Part of Speech: Verb

Tense: Present
Mood: Subjunctive
Voice: Active

Person: 1st Person
Number: Plural[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Budman]

I can answer anything you got.

Still waiting, Ralphie.

 

[Ralph-]

Still waiting, Ralphie.

For what? Did I miss one of your unbeliever's arguments?

 

[Ralph-]

ARE you dense? The verb tense is listed just to the right of the verb....it is a PRESENT SUBJUNCTIVE ACTIVE 1st PERSON PLURAL.....quit rejecting the truth and just receive correction and get right......

[TABLE="class: cms_table_cms_table_maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]1961 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]epimenōmen[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]ἐπιμένωμεν[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]Shall we continue[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]V-PSA-1P <-----Part of Speech: Verb

Tense: Present
Mood: Subjunctive
Voice: Active

Person: 1st Person
Number: Plural[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Im going to go with what Strong's says. What is your source? Did you make that table? If you did you got it wrong. Cite your source like I did.


Back later.

 

[dcontroversal]

Im going to go with what Strong's says. What is your source? Did you make that table? If you did you got it wrong. Cite your source like I did.


Back later.

Your busted yet again as false....hit the blue pal...it will take you to my source which is based upon Strong's.......and your wonderful accusations continue to prove who really leads you.....WOW!

 

[Budman]

For what? Did I miss one of your unbeliever's arguments?

Okay! I give up! I'm sooooo sorry! You are right, and have always been right! Can I be saved now, sir?