Not By Works

[mj007]

Is someone who thinks 'faith alone' and no requirement for works, really hiding a perversion of bad works?

There are lots who struggle with the works part, but have faith. This is not the same. If you are trying and failing it is better than seeing no requirement for works. To me, seeing no requirement for works, that is the Devil's playground, and only the Devil would want you to believe such, for you to believe that you HAVE your salvation, and yet can carry on doing bad with little engagement with good works, like being kind and humble to people you engage with.

Faith without a requirement for works, is a defiler waiting to happen. Someone who tries to squeeze the purity out of others. Now is that God's work, and does it have anything to do with God? The Devil will even try to make you believe that.

 

[Rosemaryx]

When is it determined when a person is SAVED?

The Day they Get Saved? NO
The Day they Are Saved? NO
Yesterday? NO
Today? NO

But when does God determine who is SAVED and who is NOT SAVED? WHEN????
On that day when the Books are opened and your name is found in it, and it has not been blotted out. THAT is the ONLY DAY that determines if a person is SAVED.

i can claim "i am Saved" till i am blue in the face, but it is only on Judgement Day that will determine if i am SAVED or not SAVED.
Not even death is a determining factor of who is Saved or who is not Saved. A person is not determined Saved because they died a Christian. Even that dead person is not determined SAVED until the dead are raised and judged on Judgement DAY. That is the ONLY DAY that determines who is and who is NOT SAVED.
So go ahead and claim to be Saved today, go ahead and think that it is not possible for your name to be blotted out of the Book of Life, believe whatever you will, But the TRUTH is, ONLY on Judgement Day is a person TRULY SAVED or not SAVED. He that endures to the end, shall be Saved. This generation would do well to learn what that means.
We are in a race, just because we are in a race, does not mean everyone will finish that race, even though they did start that race.
The wide path and the narrow paths, are both paths that lead to the end of those paths. Just because you are on one path does not mean you can't decide to take the other path, and visa versa. The outcome of both paths, is at the end of those paths, not the journey while on those paths.
So you claim to be in the narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting, just because today you are on that narrow path, does not mean you can't possible choose to leave that path. The narrow Path leads to Life Everlasting. But just because you currently on that narrow path, does not mean you have Life Everlasting. You only get Life Everlasting if you endure by staying on that path to the end of the path, to the finish.
This generation does gravely error in thinking just because they are on the RIGHT PATH today, means they can never get on the wrong path, this thinking in and of itself only shows you are not on the right path.

Those who are Truly on the Right Path, are careful to remain on that path, it is the path that leads to life everlasting. To take thought that since you are on that path, you can never get off that path, only reveals one thing. You are on the wrong path.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Hi DD...This Scripture comes into my mind...2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?...xox...

 

[BillG]

The question is, do any people pretend they have faith, or pretend they love God as much as they say they do? What really goes on behind closed doors?

That's a good point.

Maybe people come here because they know what happens behind their closed doors.
Seeking refuge because they can't find it in their church for fear.
I always bang on about "We need to understand what's going on behind their closed doors"

They have faith yet struggle, they love God yet because they struggle they believe God does not love them.

That's why we should endeavour to walk with people on here.

 

[mj007]

What I really look at, and this is really simple, is that regardless of the good day bad days, where we might say things we regret, or people might say things offensive or out of touch, how much love is also expressed? If you look at people from that perspective, there are those who express about as much love as a sundried tomato.

That's a good point.

Maybe people come here because they know what happens behind their closed doors.
Seeking refuge because they can't find it in their church for fear.
I always bang on about "We need to understand what's going on behind their closed doors"

They have faith yet struggle, they love God yet because they struggle they believe God does not love them.

That's why we should endeavour to walk with people on here.

 

[mj007]

Yes Jesus Christ is always within us, whether we have faith or we have doubt.

But in faith, we walk with Christ.

In doubt, we walk with ourselves.

Hi DD...This Scripture comes into my mind...2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?...xox...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because the Righteousness of the Holy spirit towards such foolishness compels us to do so.

Thats what I thought when I would confront peter.. Not sure thast was true anymore.

 

[mj007]

I could extend that somewhat;

In love we walk with Christ,
In fear we walk with ourselves.

In compassion we walk with Christ,
in heartlessness we walk with ourselves.

In kindness we walk with Christ,
In selfishness we walk with ourselves.

In humility we walk with Christ,
In arrogance we walk with ourselves.

Yes Jesus Christ is always within us, whether we have faith or we have doubt.

But in faith, we walk with Christ.

In doubt, we walk with ourselves.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sadly you don't for if the "Fear of God" was "in you" you wouldn't be "so prideful".

If someone fears the word. They have not rested in christ.

 

[BillG]

What I really look at, and this is really simple, is that regardless of the good day bad days, where we might say things we regret, or people might say things offensive or out of touch, how much love is also expressed? If you look at people from that perspective, there are those who express about as much love as a sundried tomato.

Maybe because they have no idea what true love is all about.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. (1)
In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults.(2)
Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is.(3)
Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. (4)
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. (5)
Avoid every kind of evil.(6)
They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. (7)
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. (8)

(1)1 Corinthians 13:6,(2)1 Corinthians 14:20,(3)Ephesians 5:17,(4)Col 1:21,(5)Col 3:5,(6)1 Thess 5:22,(7)2 Thess 2:10-12,(8)1 Tim 6:10-11

Those who preach against the above do not know God.

 

[Ralph-]

But in Jesus there is no fear, perfect love casts out fear.

With reference to a believer the fear should be that of reverance towards God.
Which of course will lead to growth.

To live in fear towards God, as you put it, does not correlate with the following.

1 John 4:17-19


17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us.

No, it doesn't say being in Christ is what casts out fear. It says being like Jesus is what casts out fear.

Let's look at how Paul talks about fearing God in Romans 11:19-22.


“Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off."


Even if one wants to interpret the cutting off as only being the breaking of fellowship, the point is very clear that we are to fear God and what he may do. In another forum a woman was saying pretty much the same thing you are now. She talked about not having to fear because of being saved and being in Jesus. She looked right at this passage of scripture, the part about fearing being pointed out to her, and went right back to her argument that Christians do not fear and do not have to fear. It was amazing. But I know that's how it works in the church. We can't see the words in the Bible past what we've been taught. And what we're being taught is not what the Bible says. I'm not saying you're doing that. I'm just pointing out that what we as a church hold as truth doesn't line up real well with what the Bible actually says and when it's pointed out to us we have a hard time believing it.

God does not torment his kids.

Of course not.

But he will spank them. Every good father does. And we should fear that spanking. Just as we did growing up with our earthly fathers and whom most of respected despite those spankings. Perhaps many of us can remember the torment of waiting for dad to come home after mom put us in our room for doing something wrong. Not fun. A person who does right does not have that fear.

I know there are those who will not be able to relate to the analogy because they had bad fathers, and I am sorry for them, I truly am. But that does not negate the truth about God's children being afraid of his punishment for things we've done wrong. Just recently my loving heavenly father took me by the nape of my shirt and quite firmly told me to take care of a situation I had become entangled in.

It was comforting to have his love expressed to me in his willingness and faithfulness to make me put an end to a situation that I had stupidly gotten myself into. I have been living in liberation and freedom since. I feared and respected him more than I did the things I was playing with that I should not have been. I regret that I am all too often the proverbial mule that has to be led around by bit and bridle. But I will say I'm not as stubborn as I used to be and don't need such a hard pull on the bit as I used to need. And I still thank God for bringing me to repentance and coming to get me out of that situation. Fear, yet love, all at the same time.

"I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go;I will counsel you with my loving eye on you.Do not be like the horse or the mule,which have no understandingbut must be controlled by bit and bridleor they will not come to you."-Psalm 32:8-9

 

[LightLoveHope]

Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.
You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived.
But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.
Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices
and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.(1)
When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.(2)
We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.(3)


(1)Colossians 3:6-10,(2) 1 Corinthians 8:12,(3) 2 Corinthians 5:20

 

[Ralph-]

But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.

'Flee'? 'Pursue'?
Isn't that me trying to earn my own salvation?

 

[Ralph-]

Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.
You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived.
But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.
Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices
and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.(1)
When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.(2)
We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.(3)


(1)Colossians 3:6-10,(2) 1 Corinthians 8:12,(3) 2 Corinthians 5:20

"Rid yourselves". That's works, isn't it?

 

[mj007]

Well, I think this comes from dealing with pain in the wrong way, whether that's with anger, hate, resent, non-acceptance, regret, pity, bitterness. For example, when someone loses their parents, or they lose a child, or they lose a sibling, or a best friend, this is when how they deal with that pain has probably the greatest impact on their lives. In fact even if that person was horrible to them the same negative reactions can arise. And the choices in how they deal with that, shapes them into a more spiritual person who understands God more and loves more, or hollows them out into a tough but empty shell, but you only see the tough from them, not the emptiness. The emptiness is only in their words, even if they are religious. The love is inside all of us, but for some it becomes hard to express, and comes out another way, or doesn't come out at all.

Maybe because they have no idea what true love is all about.

 

[Ralph-]

There's nothing of man in this wedding dress.

For that would be an abomination.

 

[LightLoveHope]

'Flee'? 'Pursue'?
Isn't that me trying to earn my own salvation?

"Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished."
gen 19:15

These people have no fear of God, the way they embrace sin, and reject Gods word, love and
righteousness while claiming they are the true saved, and God will not touch them, shows how
deluded they have become.

 

[Ralph-]

"Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished."
gen 19:15

These people have no fear of God, the way they embrace sin, and reject Gods word, love and righteousness
while claiming they are the true saved, and God will not touch them, shows how deluded they have become.

Keep hitting 'em out of the park. You're doing good.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

"Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished."
gen 19:15

These people have no fear of God, the way they embrace sin, and reject Gods word, love and
righteousness while claiming they are the true saved, and God will not touch them, shows how
deluded they have become.

Who are "these people"?

 

[heartofdavid]

For that would be an abomination.

Now it's a trump nation