Not By Works

[Ralph-]

Now, you take 1 John 3:6-10 and show us where it really says that the person living is sin IS born again.

You too, budman.

 

[Chester]

Did you forget? We're the ones who are not allowed to judge and call names.

Who is the we? I prefer just to stick to speaking to one another instead of making this into an "us" and "they" LOL!

 

[dcontroversal]

I'm only here to torment you before the time not argue..

I say go back and post the proof that I said we are not saved now. Then we'll see if there is any truth to your accusations.

You have said it numerous times and have very clearly pointed out that it is only when Jesus comes and sees their works that they are saved....and that is Jesus finds one without works they are not saved....both views disregard the fact that believers have BOTH TYPES OF WORKS and rewarded accordingly

 

[dcontroversal]

I'm only here to torment you before the time not argue..

I know people without REWARD for labor in the kingdom of God are still saved. It's the people who are disobedient in the kingdom of God who will not be saved. The passage isn't talking about those kinds of people. But you can show us it is if you are sure it is talking about them. The passage is about REWARDS for SERVICE that have nothing to do with being saved, it's not about being able to be saved despite having lived in the flesh and not in the Spirit in the disobedience of unbelief. But if you are sure it is SHOW US. Don't just tell us.

There is another error...by faith one gets PLACED INTO THE KINGDOM and once in the KINGDOM BY FAITH THEY ARE REWARDED ACCORDINGLY....wake up

 

[preacher4truth]

When are you going to stop lying about what he said? I even posted his own words for you to see. Do you want me to post it again for all to see?

Look at this, unbelievable.

No, "Ralph-" I don't need you to post it again, and lose your lame threatening tone. Apparently you cannot comprehend what he said, or, even worse, you do, but then twist his words willfully.

I defended a brother from your bearing false witness against him because this is what you did.

Everyone should spend their energy on someone who resembles a true believer, not on those who perpetually lie.

 

[preacher4truth]

Since you say you are Calvinist the answer is...

You're repeating yourself, you do this daily, all day long, the same thing is repeated by you no matter how many times you're refuted. Then you wake up the next day, and repeat again. Then the next, then for weeks, then into months. You repeat the same thing over and over and over, and are refuted and proven wrong as many times. Obsessed. OCD.

This behavior is what we call "mental" around here. Please get some help for this and your lying.

 

[Ralph-]

Look at this, unbelievable.

No, "Ralph-" I don't need you to post it again, and lose your lame threatening tone. Apparently you cannot comprehend what he said, or, even worse, you do, but then twist his words willfully.

I defended a brother from your bearing false witness against him because this is what you did.

Everyone should spend their energy on someone who resembles a true believer, not on those who perpetually lie.

Look, I get it. You're convicted about the passages I've been posting. Take it to Jesus. Leave the messenger alone.

 

[dcontroversal]

Look, I get it. You're convicted about the passages I've been posting. Take it to Jesus. Leave the messenger alone.

Hahahahaha more jokes from the Comedian.....have a piece of cake

 

[Ralph-]

by faith one gets PLACED INTO THE KINGDOM and once in the KINGDOM BY FAITH THEY ARE REWARDED ACCORDINGLY

We know that really happened, if it happened, by if we have a changed and changing life from that point onward. If 'in the end' we are not, we show themselves to not be saved by faith and are then not saved from God's wrath.

Stop twisting the argument. I spelled it out for you. You have no excuse to twist it any more.

 

[Ralph-]

Hahahahaha more jokes from the Comedian.....have a piece of cake

You too. It's obvious you're convicted about not having a changed life. Take it to Jesus. Leave the messenger alone. I'm all for rewards for labor trying to build people into the Building of God but I'd rather not get them through the abuse of those I'm talking to. Your salvation is the reward I want. That's the reward I want.

 

[stonesoffire]

At least one more time......The workers for theme song....

We'll work till Jesus comes, we'll work till Jesus comes, we'll work till Jesus comes and then get cast away!

Why.....because of their motto

His blood will not work, his blood will not work, his blood will not work because we need our works.

Emphasis upon the word WORK AND how Jesus said MANY WILL BOAST OF THEIR WORKS IN HIS NAME THAT THEY TRUST IN.....bit he NEVER KNEW THEM<---they were never saved and came by the ONLY DOOR WHICH IS FAITH ALONE FOR SALVATION

catchy tune..

 

[Locutus]

Look, I get it. You're convicted about the passages I've been posting

 

[joefizz]

And your theme song about grace being a license to sin is the right one?

Everyone who thinks that will be rejected when Jesus comes back for being lawless and will try desperately to gain entry into the kingdom based on their church work, Bible studies, pastoring, boasts of his grace, etc. But he will say 'back off, I don't know you.'



You don't even see the qualifier in your own words. It's the BOAST of works that Christ will not hear. e did not say he will not discard works of people when he returns.

Works of faith are required for entry into the kingdom because those are the evidence of the faith that justifies and makes you eligible for the kingdom. But you keep assassinating any and ALL works as if you are sinning if you do them. You seem to only be able to see works as you trying to justify yourself when in fact there are the works that faith produces and which you HAVE to have to be saved when Jesus comes back or else you are showing yourself to not even be born again.

It's the BOAST of works that will not save. Not the doing of works. You have to do works to be saved at the Judgment or you are not born again.

I seriously wanna use Sovereign grace's words of "wrong try again" because this is still ludicrous with you Ralph,you are still looking for something that "isn't there" and then "justifying what isn't there" once a person is saved they will work for God,there is no what if I don't work,there's none of that because those who are saved are "God/Jesus's" as in they are in his hand "forever" there is no going back,there is no falling away from God/Jesus,those whom are saved will work.
Since you seek this lunacy,do tell all of us...Whom in the bible was saved and did no works for God/Jesus?

 

[Ralph-]

I seriously wanna use Sovereign grace's words of "wrong try again" because this is still ludicrous with you Ralph,you are still looking for something that "isn't there" and then "justifying what isn't there" once a person is saved they will work for God,there is no what if I don't work,there's none of that because those who are saved are "God/Jesus's" as in they are in his hand "forever" there is no going back,there is no falling away from God/Jesus,those whom are saved will work.
Since you seek this lunacy,do tell all of us...Whom in the bible was saved and did no works for God/Jesus?

Listen carefully this time. The person who says they are saved but who does not have works IS NOT SAVED.


"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."-Galatians 5:19-21


It means, even if you claim to be saved, if you are 'living like this' YOU ARE NOT BORN AGAIN. It does not mean if you are born again it does not apply to you. It means you are still in the flesh and are not born again and do not have the Spirit. But so many people in the church are sure grace means you can 'live like this' and it doesn't matter because salvation is not by works and once you are saved you are always saved and so you are born again despite living in the flesh, just as long as you believe. That's called making grace a license to sin, which it is not, you only think it is. You are deceived. You will be condemned when Jesus comes back not saved. You show by your life that you do not have the Spirit of God in salvation in you.

(You=anybody)

 

[Budman]

You too, budman.

God is great at exposing people like you, Ralph. By posting those verses, you've condemned yourself.

"Whoever abides in Him sins not" (You still sin, Ralph)

"Whoever is born of God does not sin" (Since you still sin, the scripture is clear you are not born of God, Ralph)

"For he cannot sin (And yet, you do, Ralph)

And don't spew that drivel about "living" in it. Since you sin every single day, that is the epitome of living in it.

That's why Jesus came, Ralph. Because we are incapable of stopping our sinning. That's why he became sin for us.

You run around going, "See Lord, look at me! Look at all I'm doing! Look at my wonderful works! See? I'm one of the redeemed, because I'm proving it!"

You're not proving anything to God.

And the only thing you're proving to us, is you are a hypocrite.

 

[Locutus]

Ralph at the Works Cafe:

 

[stillness]

Do you think someone is walking in love when they tell blatant lies?

Dear sister,T
hanks for being able to express that you liked something I wrote after our dispute.

Since then I lost motivation to write here, the good thing is accepting that I don't need to be understood and even if we understand well, doesn't mean we walk in Love. I have a fascination for mysteries yet you must think I'm poorly understanding, regardless even if I understood mysteries well: "Without Love I am nothing." And having different understanding doesn't mean lying: Lying is with intent to deceive.

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."[/FONT]

 

[stillness]

Listen carefully this time. The person who says they are saved but who does not have works IS NOT SAVED.


"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."-Galatians 5:19-21


It means, even if you claim to be saved, if you are 'living like this' YOU ARE NOT BORN AGAIN. It does not mean if you are born again it does not apply to you. It means you are still in the flesh and are not born again and do not have the Spirit. But so many people in the church are sure grace means you can 'live like this' and it doesn't matter because salvation is not by works and once you are saved you are always saved and so you are born again despite living in the flesh, just as long as you believe. That's called making grace a license to sin, which it is not, you only think it is. You are deceived. You will be condemned when Jesus comes back not saved. You show by your life that you do not have the Spirit of God in salvation in you.

(You=anybody)

Hi Ralf, It's posts like this that motivated me to try and explain that being saved is ongoing and has a different meaning for little children that for those who overcome. Meaning: you and your opposition have part of the puzzle and are unwilling to put your pieces together to get a better picture. But then if you did, this post would have outgrown it's purpose and it may be hard to let go of what we think we know.

"Judge nothing before the time."
Like judging people in sin as lost. "there is a sin unto death and I don't say that you should pray for it"
I think both sides of this argument don't believe such a person can be saved and you also don't believe that someone saved can be lost this way. If the person has a crown I agree with you." lol at least we agree on something. "I have fought a good fight I have kept the faith, I have finished my course," you know the rest: he has a crown. "And not for me only but for all who Love His appearing." The point here is not everyone gets a crown, some lose their reward.
"All manner of sin shall be forgiven to man, but rejecting the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to man." The only sin that cant be forgiven. Why such a long list of sins that leave people out of eternal life then? Without the Holy Spirit we are powerless to free ourselves, and its as we forgive that we are forgiven. Yet even here we can jump to conclusion.
Growing up to maturity is a work of Grace: Jesus did the work and now we are labourers with Him and the Forman doesn't have to work yet he still does when we are of one accord: for the Holy Spirit to move, referring to the work of God. And if you find mistakes in my writhing feel free to edit, that would be much more polite than saying its a lie. I have not trouble forgiving its a good learning experience.

Reasons for Writing
I am writing to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning.
I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one.

I write to you, dear children, because you know the Father.
I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

On Not Loving the World
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them.For everything in the world: the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, comes not from the Father but from the world.
The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

 

[Ralph-]

God is great at exposing people like you, Ralph. By posting those verses, you've condemned yourself.

"Whoever abides in Him sins not" (You still sin, Ralph)

You still sin, Budman. You've condemned yourself too by interpreting 1 John 3:6 as sinless perfection. It's amazing you can not see this. That verse even says if abide in sin you do not know him. How are you missing that?

"Whoever is born of God does not sin" (Since you still sin, the scripture is clear you are not born of God, Ralph)

Same for you, then. You are not born of God, Budman.

"For he cannot sin (And yet, you do, Ralph)

And yet, you do too, budman.
You've effectively condemned yourself and you don't seem to even realize it.

And don't spew that drivel about "living" in it. Since you sin every single day, that is the epitome of living in it.

Same for you then, you sin every single day too. You've just condemned yourself but you think you are not condemned while you condemn me.

That's why Jesus came, Ralph. Because we are incapable of stopping our sinning. That's why he became sin for us.

So that's why he became sin for us....so we can keep on sinning and not change but be saved anyway because we are incapable of stopping our sin? Really? So you're saying I can keep sinning in my old life because grace makes it so it doesn't matter anymore?

That's making grace a license to sin. You're only fooling yourself. Grace was given to us to forgive our sin and grow us out of it and deny it. Let's compare what you say grace is for against what the Bible says grace is for.

"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,13looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds."-Titus 2:11-14


Grace purifies us, instructing us to deny ungodliness. If this isn't happening in you and you're not growing up into Christ, you do not have the grace of God. Remember that the next time you indulge your sinful appetites thinking God's grace makes it so you can do that and have the grace of God in salvation at the same time.