What other way of being a father is there besides adoption or procreation?
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I replied to this post already, but as I was praying this morning, I blurted out something that related to this subject that I hadn't thought of at the time.
My reply post to this one was about Jesus calling us, "gods", which I still say that is what He did, because of how it's worded.
Anyway, some other scripture verses came to me, and this is what they says.
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
I know there is more to this verse, but I just wanted to point out what appears to be Paul exhorts us to think as Jesus did saying, "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus... Who... thought it not robbery to be equal to God".
HERESY, BLASPHEMY? I don't know, but it is interesting.
I didn't study this much so I don't know how much it applies to the subject of us being like little gods, but it does have the appearance that God is telling us that we are.
I have one more.
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Through the knowledge of God's promises, we are made partakers of His divine nature.
Still sounds like little gods.
I don't know, I haven't really sought God on this, but as far as I see things, I'm a son of God, that puts me in the god category, but only in the sense that we are like Him, not only in the fruits of the Spirit, but also in power, through the knowledge of His word or promises.
Jesus said, Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
The context is about being humble it's not about being a god:
Don’t be selfish; don’t try to impress others. Be humble, thinking of others as better than yourselves. Don’t look out only for your own interests, but take an interest in others, too. You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
Philippians 2:3*-5 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/php.2.3-5.NLT
What does that have to do with what is written in the bible or what this thread is about?
I don't follow Hagin, but the word of God, so telling me and other about Hagin doesn't prove a thing.
Show me scripture in the bible that disproves WOF and you will have my attention.
But misunderstand, this is not about health and wealth, but about words of faith.
What people do with WOF has nothing to do with whether or not it is of God or not, or if it is the truth or not.
Kindly keep to the subject, and stop bringing in diversions into the subject of discussion.
And know this, health and wealth is not WOF, it is a result of it.
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
1 Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, 2 make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.
3 Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves;4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
above are the verses in context
Jesus emptied Himself
Jesus humbled Himself and was obedient to the point of death on a cross
how does a Christian come to believe that we are little gods?
I am going to guess it is because a little spirit is whispering it into very itchy ears
the mindset being referred to is one of servant hood...not god status
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I know it can appear to be that way, and it might be, but read some works from some other commentators. Many of them show it referring to the latter verses, not the former, as you suppose.
You are believing a falsehood because Jesus never told his audience they were gods.
You might have been upset when you said this MA'AM, but what you said in your last sentence, made me laugh.
And I just wanted to make sure you saw me write your correct gender this time.
Good post.
The adoption that scripture is speaking of was written with Roman law of adoption at the time. I read about this a long time ago. Am sure anyone can google but, I'm tired and lazy now. Lol
What happened in roman courts, all the family of the one to be adopted was present, along with all the family that was adopting.
All the names of the family that was giving up a child to another family was written down on a slate along with the name of the child. The judge then took the slate and wiped out completely all the names that were previously part of the life of the child, and wrote the child's new name, with the new parents, and all the rest of the family members.
Thats what adopted for us into the family of God means.
What happened in roman courts, all the family of the one to be adopted was present, along with all the family that was adopting.
All the names of the family that was giving up a child to another family was written down on a slate along with the name of the child. The judge then took the slate and wiped out completely all the names that were previously part of the life of the child, and wrote the child's new name, with the new parents, and all the rest of the family members.
Thats what adopted for us into the family of God means.
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
this is an old resurrected thread from August 2012. you didn't start it and you are not a mod. the thread is about WOF so no, I have not deviated from the op. this thread is called 'word of faith movement'
perhaps check for validity before you make false claims
I'm right on track after all, while you wish to talk about your personal and very WOFlike beliefs...as in 'Jesus said we are gods'
Jesus never said that, you and others here may believe it, but you are not gods, in fact you are not even sure what the thread is about
actually, it would be up to you to illustrate just where what you say lines up with the word of God. of course you cannot do that; you can only lift verses out of context...a 100% WOF tactic (so say you are not or that you are, it is just eerily similar) and make false claims
voila! WOF at its best
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
this is false
the word 'gods' does not mean a celestial being in this case. and it does not mean offspring of the true God nor does it mean any sort of deity at all. this is one of the abject teachings of WOF and an example of what we can expect when we examine the way scripture is broken down to mean whatever WOF wants it to mean, which, is always in keeping with their own private interpretation and which is never more illustriously wrong than in this case
if someone would like to make the case for 'gods' meaning godlike or as a god in this instance, then perhaps they should also take note of the following:
it seems God is juding the gods here which may present difficulty for those who adhere to the interpretation that God does not judge believers. gods or not, God is judging you
well, now, you gods know nothing and you understand nothing. you walk about in darkness
it is after these verses, that we have
and then, the 'gods' are told they shall all die
well when read in context, not leaving out the verses before and after the WOF belief that Jesus is calling them 'gods', things start to fall apart. at any rate, you are all going to die
now let's look at what is ACTUALLY being said
the use of the word 'gods', Elohim, is also translated as 'judges' in Exodus 21:6, 22: 8& 9 and v. 28. The Psalm that Jesus is quoting from, Psalm 82, is not speaking of mortals as gods. Reading the Psalm in context...as displayed above...would render that interpretation just plain silly. The gods would be being judged, they would be in darkness and all of them sentenced to death...not quite the happy ending some think it is. But see, that is what happens when you strip a verse of its context and try to make it mean something else. it ends up meaning nothing and becomes the tool of false teachers and people become confused.
fact: Jesus was referring to rulers...not gods as has been proposed in this thread
this is a WOF favorite, even though the author may state his ideas come from the Bible (they most certainly do not...if you rip a verse out of context and try to make it say what you believe, and what you say is not in keeping with the rest of the verses, then you have simply shown a sad lack of ability to understand scripture and have fallen on the idea that if you 'think' something is being said, then you must be right.
scripture is not open to personal interpretation.
a fact that many either fail to acknowledge or believe that they have somehow been given greater liberty than others
(which of course is actually called being misled and coming up with false doctrines) *
*This use of the word “gods” to refer to humans is rare, but it is found elsewhere in the Old Testament. For example, when God sent Moses to Pharaoh, He said, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh” (Exodus 7:1). This simply means that Moses, as the messenger of God, was speaking God’s words and would therefore be God’s representative to the king. The Hebrew word Elohim is translated “judges” in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8, 9, and
Hebrew to English..
31 Once again the Judeans picked up rocks in order to stone him.
32 Yeshua answered them, “You have seen me do many good deeds that reflect the Father’s power; for which one of thlpese deeds are you stoning me?”
33 The Judeans replied, “We are not stoning you for any good deed, but for blasphemy —because you, who are only a man, are making yourself out to be God [Hebrew: Elohim].”
34 Yeshua answered them, “Isn’t it written in your Torah, ‘I have said, “You people are Elohim’ ”? h
35 If he called ‘elohim’ the people to whom the word of Elohim was addressed (and the Tanakh cannot be broken),
36 then are you telling the one whom the Father set apart as holy and sent into the world, ‘You are committing blasphemy,’ just because I said, ‘I am a son of Elohim’?
37 “If I am not doing deeds that reflect my Father’s power, don’t trust me.
38 But if I am, then, even if you don’t trust me, trust the deeds; so that you may understand once and for all that the Father is united with me, and I am united with the Father.” 39 One more time they tried to arrest him, but he slipped out of their hands.
Jesus prayed that we, His body, would be One with Him. He cannot walk in this world without us being in union with Him. Doing the same works. Saying the same Word.
I do believe in dominion. As it is in heaven, Jesus wants to bring the same here to our earth. Not just at death should we experience Him.
Not all ears will hear, nor eyes see. Doesn't mean not saved, but powerless. And has been this way too long.
31 Once again the Judeans picked up rocks in order to stone him.
32 Yeshua answered them, “You have seen me do many good deeds that reflect the Father’s power; for which one of thlpese deeds are you stoning me?”
33 The Judeans replied, “We are not stoning you for any good deed, but for blasphemy —because you, who are only a man, are making yourself out to be God [Hebrew: Elohim].”
34 Yeshua answered them, “Isn’t it written in your Torah, ‘I have said, “You people are Elohim’ ”? h
35 If he called ‘elohim’ the people to whom the word of Elohim was addressed (and the Tanakh cannot be broken),
36 then are you telling the one whom the Father set apart as holy and sent into the world, ‘You are committing blasphemy,’ just because I said, ‘I am a son of Elohim’?
37 “If I am not doing deeds that reflect my Father’s power, don’t trust me.
38 But if I am, then, even if you don’t trust me, trust the deeds; so that you may understand once and for all that the Father is united with me, and I am united with the Father.” 39 One more time they tried to arrest him, but he slipped out of their hands.
Jesus prayed that we, His body, would be One with Him. He cannot walk in this world without us being in union with Him. Doing the same works. Saying the same Word.
I do believe in dominion. As it is in heaven, Jesus wants to bring the same here to our earth. Not just at death should we experience Him.
Not all ears will hear, nor eyes see. Doesn't mean not saved, but powerless. And has been this way too long.
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
Dominionism
Some key beliefs of the NAR: We've entered a "2nd Apostolic Age" (starting in 2001); the church should somehow take over the world (dominionism); a great end time harvest/outpouring will occur once we battle enough demons, perform enough miracles and unifyunder these new Apostles; God is giving new revelation to his Prophets/Apostles but they will make many mistakes in the process and that's okay, but following the Bible too closely makes you "religious" and narrow-minded...
wonder how many demons will be 'enough'?
Some key beliefs of the NAR: We've entered a "2nd Apostolic Age" (starting in 2001); the church should somehow take over the world (dominionism); a great end time harvest/outpouring will occur once we battle enough demons, perform enough miracles and unifyunder these new Apostles; God is giving new revelation to his Prophets/Apostles but they will make many mistakes in the process and that's okay, but following the Bible too closely makes you "religious" and narrow-minded...
wonder how many demons will be 'enough'?
Since the true apostles and prophets did NOT make many mistakes, this sounds like false apostles and prophets.
Of course. Since the Bible exposes their quackery.
I agree with you SOF and have been learning about my identity in Christ and still am learning. We are sons and daughters of God. When we were born again we became new creations in Christ and God's seed remains in us.
Jesus is our brother and we are loved with an everlasting love. We are not like angels we are made in the image of God. None of us here have said we are God or mini gods. But we have been made in His image and we are more than most of us understand. It has not yet appeared what we will be in total. But when we see Him we will see Him as He is... and us as we really without having to look by faith.
I'm not sure of all that happened to Adam and Eve., all that they had when God gave them dominion over the earth and all they lost when satan lied and stole it all. But I do know it caused sin and death to come into the world and man lost his first estate and died spiritually.
When Jesus came and died for our sins He gave back what Adam lost., and while we are here on earth we are to walk by faith and not by sight in order to see the truth of all Jesus is and all He died to make us in Him. We have been given many gifts in the atonement and yet many believers still walk by sight and not by faith.
The power Jesus gave to the church is not being used because again., satan is lying and again man has fallen for the lie. Even the very elect have not believed and are walking on earth without power and love and a sound mind. But the Bible is clear about what we have been given and it's our individual choice to take the faith we have been given to believe it and walk it out each day.......... or not.
What each of us has to do is learn that we have this treasure in earthen vessels. That by faith we have many things in our salvation (Sozo) that we are daily to be learning about and walking out by faith.. We walk out what Christ has worked in us at the cross. We are to see everything post cross. Amen!