What I learned about WOF comes directly from me belonging to WOF churches for over 20 years, working at TBN on the prayer ph lines, attending a Rhema church, attending annual Kenneth Copeland conventions, listening to hundreds of WOF tapes and reading hundreds of WOF books. So, you want to challenge my knowledge about what WOF teaches?
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Read my posts sir, don't stereotype me with others just because I advocate the same doctrine.
Yes, I believe a child of God should be divinely healthy and prosper in every good work and in life, but I have not been teaching that, because that is a bi-product of WOF, it is not what WOF is.
As I have been saying from the beginning, even what is written, words of faith are simply saying what you believe in your heart.
And again, as I have been saying, it can be for both good or bad, it works the same.
It is a law and God is the one who put it in motion and forever established it in heaven, and the kingdom of heaven rules the kingdom of man, or the natural world.
I believe it, not because I'm following someone or because I wanted the good things in life, or because I'm materialistic.
I believe in WOF, because it is written in the bible, and it's right in plain sight for all to see.
Yes, I believe a child of God should be divinely healthy and prosper in every good work and in life, but I have not been teaching that, because that is a bi-product of WOF, it is not what WOF is.
As I have been saying from the beginning, even what is written, words of faith are simply saying what you believe in your heart.
And again, as I have been saying, it can be for both good or bad, it works the same.
It is a law and God is the one who put it in motion and forever established it in heaven, and the kingdom of heaven rules the kingdom of man, or the natural world.
I believe it, not because I'm following someone or because I wanted the good things in life, or because I'm materialistic.
I believe in WOF, because it is written in the bible, and it's right in plain sight for all to see.
For many years the teaching and preaching many have gotten has been up to a certain point. Should we ever stop learning? no.
What IMO happens to believers is we think we have it all now in the learning the basics department. So we actually stay right there not allowing more seeds of the Word of God to take root and grow in us. Our pride is our foundation, not Jesus.
satan is constantly there to steal the Word from us and he uses many things in the world and in our flesh to do this. Discouragement about prayers not answered., about pain and sickness coming on us and our loved ones., about ruined marriages or other relationships., about jobs and bills and lacks we have experienced or are experiencing.
So what we do is we don't persist in the Word and in the faith. We are discouraged and tired and depressed., we stop looking at Jesus as the Healer and lifter of our heads and start to think like this;
well, that faith moving mountains stuff isn't real. that Psalm 91 stuff can't be true because 1000 have fallen at my side on earth and 10,000 and more on my right hand and it HAS come "neigh unto me" So I'm not going to believe the Word is literal., it's figurative so He isn't going to protect...guide... teach and secure me cause if He didn't do it for them., He certainly won't do it for me"
If He doesn't do it for that little baby who is innocent., He sure isn't going to do it for me who is guilty of sinning where as that baby is totally innocent. (looking according to the flesh not according to God's grace IN Christ who gives us not because we deserve it but because of Jesus)
So right there the devil has robbed the believer of his inheritance by causing their eyes to get off of the Word and on to themselves and other people and horrors of the world and the flesh. Even when SPECIFICALLY the Bible tells us and warns us not to judge according to ourselves or others. That there is a way that seems right unto a man but those ways are the ways of death... not life.
We are in a battle but Jesus has won it already. We are now to hold the ground He leveled for us and we do that by faith. Then satan has to flee because then we have properly resisted his lies with the truth of God's Word and the testimony of the the grace through faith like we did when we first got saved. But many Christians don't know what those many promises are and the gifts given IN Christ when they got saved.
Many are walking out according to the old manner of life where they were taught you get what you are willing to give. No., grace gives us what we don't deserve because that is the gift Jesus died and paid for us to have. Grace teaches us how to live soberly., righteously and Godly in this present world. God has given us such great and precious promises in Christ but we won't believe them and walk them out. Many believers are trying to GET what Jesus has already given.
So when we fail to acquire those things promised in the Bible, we think God's word didn't really mean what it said. Then satan has won again like he did in the garden when Adam had all he needed but believed the lie satan told that he and Eve lacked.
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Woman, you are not only a very smart person, but very wise as well.
I too enjoy reading your posts, which are seasoned with so much more grace and love than mine.
I certainly have learned from some of the things you have written and I hope you continue.
As for the words we speak, most of them take a while before they materialize, but if we keep saying the same things we believe, we shall have whatsoever we say, and so they will eventually come to pass. Things like, "my grandmother had breast cancer, my mother had breast cancer, and I know I'm going to get it too".
Most times, these words take years before they bear fruit, and the people wonder why this happened to them. Then they start blaming God it. Then the church tell them it was the will of God for them, so that they can grow through the experience, and that God is trying to teach them something. All the while, they brought it on themselves because they didn't believe or know what is written concerning the power of the tongue.
Good post, you have me chuckling with the killing part.
I too enjoy reading your posts, which are seasoned with so much more grace and love than mine.
I certainly have learned from some of the things you have written and I hope you continue.
As for the words we speak, most of them take a while before they materialize, but if we keep saying the same things we believe, we shall have whatsoever we say, and so they will eventually come to pass. Things like, "my grandmother had breast cancer, my mother had breast cancer, and I know I'm going to get it too".
Most times, these words take years before they bear fruit, and the people wonder why this happened to them. Then they start blaming God it. Then the church tell them it was the will of God for them, so that they can grow through the experience, and that God is trying to teach them something. All the while, they brought it on themselves because they didn't believe or know what is written concerning the power of the tongue.
Good post, you have me chuckling with the killing part.
Wow! More Greek scholars! I'm delighted to meet you. First, you don't put up the actual verses where you are quoting the Greek, although I am going to search them out. Second, neither of you knows a thing about Greek, or you would be posting it. Feel free to use any exegetical tools you need. But, WoF preachers who literally do not know how to read and exegete the Greek or Hebrew, do not count!
Stones of Fire:
"Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account." Hebrews 4:11-13 ESV
"ῶν γὰρ ὁ λόγος τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ ἐνεργὴς καὶ τομώτερος ὑπὲρ πᾶσαν μάχαιραν δίστομον καὶ διϊκνούμενος ἄχρι μερισμοῦ ψυχῆς καὶ πνεύματος, ἁρμῶν τε καὶ μυελῶν, καὶ κριτικὸς ἐνθυμήσεων καὶ ἐννοιῶν καρδίας·" Hebrews 4:12 Greek
I'm hoping these are the verses you were talking about.
ἐνεργὴς or energas - energetic active, productive. The word is used in activities that produce results, and often for divine activity that produces results. God's power, not ours.
ὑπὲρ - hyper - than. The word is used as a comparative construction: sharper than, sharper beyond. Anyone know what figures of speech use comparison? Well, simile, with like or as, and a metaphor, without those words. So, by using this comparison, he is talking about a metaphor that compares what a sharp sword does, to the divine activity of God. And yes, that divine activity is definitely found in the Word of God. The Bible. But, not in our words. Our words have no power to divide, to be sharp. Only the Holy Spirit in us can do that. We can say words from the Bible till we are blue in the face, and it means nothing until we have the power of the Holy Spirit.
μάχαιραν - machairan - sword
various other words, like δίστομον or double edged, two edged; διϊκνούμενος which means "to pass through, to pierce, to penetrate, μερισμοῦ - dividing; ἁρμῶν - joint; μυελῶν marrow.
Together, these expressions serve to convey effectively the notion of the extreme penetrating of the word of God, to the core of one's being! Further, the word is "active" in the sense that it speeds to fulfill the purpose for which it has been said. The "word of God" in this passage is parallel not such mucho "the all-powerful word" but rather as "thy authentic command" (referring to God) that is described as a sharp sword.
However, the divine word is not merely described as a sharp sword, but as sharper than the sharpest sword. The words which follow "as it pierces, it divides the soul from spirit, the joints from marrow" are to be understood as "rhetorical or metaphorical accumulation of terms to express the whole mental nature of people on all side. The idea of dividing the joints and marrow suggests the division of the body into its members, hence joints and marrow are attributed to them, expressing the subtle articulations of the spiritual being and the innermost nature and substance of it.
In other words, the word of God probes the inmost recesses of our spiritual being and brings the subconscious motives to light, we may compare Paul's language about the coming day when the Lord "will bring to light both the things hidden in darkness, and make manifest the counsel of the hearts. (1 Cor. 4:5) It is not surprising that a judicial function here is attributed to the word of God. It is "discrimination of the heart's thoughts and intents" With the function here ascribed to the word of God, we may compare "heart-knowing" as applied to God himself in Acts 1:24; 15:8 Please notice verse 11 - the writer of Hebrews is saying we should not fall into disobedience. Nothing to do with uttering words. This is an admonition that God's activity will bring to light what is in our hearts!
That is the what the Greek says! Nothing to do with a sword in his mouth, in Revelation, written many years later. In fact, the sword here is used as a metaphor, of God's activity in our hearts and lives. Please do not answer me without referring to the actual Greek.
Know1:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
"Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος." John 1:1 Greek
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:14 ESV
"Καὶ ὁλόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας·" John 1:14 Greek
There is so much richness in these texts, I could write a whole book on them. What they do not point to is some shallow, utterance or speech we make. What they are talking about is Jesus, none other!
The designation "Word" is used in a Christological sense in both the above verses. It conveys the notion of divine self-expression or speech. (Divine, not ours!). As a comprehensive Christological title, the expression "Word" or λόγος (logos) encompasses Jesus' entire ministry, placing all of Jesus works and words within the framework of both his eternal being and existence and God's self revelation in history.
Bauer (BDAG) is a Greek Lexicon and it has over 3 pages on the word λόγος. (pages 598-601) Here are the three main definitions.
1. a communication whereby the mind finds expression, word. This definition is the broadest, often used to communicate the gospel, in the Bible. The power is the power of God, not the power of the words. Greeks used this word somewhat differently, oratory being raised to an art form. People loved speeches, in those days, especially the Greeks.
2. computation, reckoning. A formal accounting of one's actions and frequently used with commercial terminology! This includes settlement of an account; reflection, for the sake of, regard or respect. Further, the reason of cause of something - reason, ground, motive; with whom we have to reckon.
3. the independent personified expression of God, the Logos. This is my explanation above, from commentaries, and interestingly enough, is implied in Hebrews 4:12 above, and 13:7.
So, if you knew Greek, you would recognize there are three distinctive different definitions of the word, λόγος, depending upon context. I would advise you to get a copy of Bauer, for further study. He goes extensively into all the places where this word appears in the GNT and early church history.
What I am seeing, is Word of Faith not knowing Greek, but claiming to. And in the process, taking verses like 1 Cor. 4:19, 20, or Luke 5:1 and thinking it is talking about divinity, when in fact, that is the third definition, not the first.
Of course, I am only guessing, since NO VERSES with λόγος have actually been quoted!
So, no, neither of you has a clue about Greek! Not a single clue! Not what the word definitions, Greek grammar nor Greek context.
Don't bother responding to me with your pretend, sound bite Greek, or throwing out opinions. If you quote the Greek, use a reputable source. I'll put my sources I used for this post below. And none of them were preachers who not only did not know Greek, but are some of the finest sources available. And please do not go on about only needing the New Testament, not the "words of men!" I was quite content just to quote the Bible in context, it was you two who brought up the meanings of the Greek words, about which you know nothing about. I do detest when people bring up Greek, when they have never studied a word of it. And that includes both WoF and hypergrace teachers, preachers and charlatans. (Ok, they are all charlatans!) And their followers, who also don't know any Greek.
Bauer (BDAG) The Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Church Literature Third Edition
Cleon Rogers Jr & Cleon Rogers III The New Linguistic Key to the Greek New Testament
Andreas J. Köstenberger - John: The Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament
J. Ramsey Michaels - The Gospel of John: The New International Commentary on the New Testament.
Sure., I challenge it every day. I can't look at my experiences or yours or Angela's or know1s or K.Copeland or TBN or CBN or FOX news or J. Prince.,or A.Wommack, or John MacGarther.., or RoboOp etc... etc.... I don't go to any of them for my help., my help comes from the Lord. None of those human people or places have saved me or taken care of me. I must always look to Jesus who is the Author and finisher of my faith.
Opinions and books and teachers and organizations come and go but Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever. He has given us believers these great and precious promises. I believe the testimony of the Holy Spirit as He witnesses to my spirit that I am a son of God., righteous and holy in His sight because of Jesus. As long as I do that., my foundation is sure.
But the Word of God doesn't mean those things the WOF teachers say. For example: Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
3 John 1:2 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/3jn.1.2.KJV
WOF teachers say this is a promise from God but it isn't. Archeological discoveries have found secular first century documents, letters, with the same greeting at the beginning of the letter. It is how we today start a letter, or ph conversation, saying " I hope everything is going okay and everyone is healthy ". Do we mean God is promising that He will prosper them in wealth and health? No, it is a standard greeting.
3 John 1:2 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/3jn.1.2.KJV
WOF teachers say this is a promise from God but it isn't. Archeological discoveries have found secular first century documents, letters, with the same greeting at the beginning of the letter. It is how we today start a letter, or ph conversation, saying " I hope everything is going okay and everyone is healthy ". Do we mean God is promising that He will prosper them in wealth and health? No, it is a standard greeting.
Well, feel free then, doesn't bother me.
But I don't follow those who teach WOF, I suppose I would have to say, I lead it.
I certainly am not ashamed to say I believe in WOF, nor do I care in the lease to be called or labeled a WOFer.
As for believing that I am a little god, I believe what is written.
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Explain the above verses to me please.
But I don't follow those who teach WOF, I suppose I would have to say, I lead it.
I certainly am not ashamed to say I believe in WOF, nor do I care in the lease to be called or labeled a WOFer.
As for believing that I am a little god, I believe what is written.
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Explain the above verses to me please.
You guys and gals believe as you do now and I'm not going to fight about this because I believe differently. I'm very thankful to Jesus for saving me and sending the Holy Spirit to teach and work with me each day.
To know that He does this not based on anything that we have done but because Jesus has established it on and in and for each of us.
2 Cor.5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Titus 3:5 He saved us, not because of righteous things we have done, but because of His mercy.
Malachi 4:2 ... the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings...
None of us has to lack when we believe Him.
To know that He does this not based on anything that we have done but because Jesus has established it on and in and for each of us.
2 Cor.5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Titus 3:5 He saved us, not because of righteous things we have done, but because of His mercy.
Malachi 4:2 ... the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings...
None of us has to lack when we believe Him.
Jesus is quoting the psalm which calls those in the psalm "gods" but goes on to say they are not gods just men. Jesus isn't telling His audience they are gods. If you think you are a god then you fall under God's curse:
“Tell them this: ‘These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.’ ”
Jeremiah 10:11 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/jer.10.11.NIV
“Tell them this: ‘These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.’ ”
Jeremiah 10:11 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/jer.10.11.NIV
That's not at all what his post intended. You're aware of this, but are straddling the fence, or at least trying.
And you did question my salvation, even worse, you've agreed all are lost who are not WoF. And he continues on, post after post proving I knew exactly what he meant by WoF, and you pretend it meant something else.
WoF teaching is heresy, feel free to count me (among others, pretty much a large percentage of this forum) as lost as you were so willing to do earlier in this thread. No sweat off my back, I couldn't care less if you think that, what bothers me is the pretense you meant something else by agreeing with him.
And you did question my salvation, even worse, you've agreed all are lost who are not WoF. And he continues on, post after post proving I knew exactly what he meant by WoF, and you pretend it meant something else.
WoF teaching is heresy, feel free to count me (among others, pretty much a large percentage of this forum) as lost as you were so willing to do earlier in this thread. No sweat off my back, I couldn't care less if you think that, what bothers me is the pretense you meant something else by agreeing with him.
I posted this on another thread but part of it applies here too and the same other Christians were actually on my mind while typing it out. There is no reason to argue. It's obvious we each have differing opinions on many of the verses and we each live them out as we believe them. So no point in the arguing. I'll post this here and leave it at that. God blesses all of us in the household of faith!! 
[FONT="]
For some reason many here believe that it is their calling / duty / mandate ...to correct mature Christians who have been in the faith for yeears. But not all of us here particularly agree with all of the things in the Bible the same as you do or your Christian denomination does. This is quite an amazing thing to be shocked over IMO since so many of us come from different countries and cities and states and Bible believing back rounds and Bible teachings for all of us to be totally 100% in agreement would be impossible.[/FONT]
[FONT="]And this is even after many Christians have specifically and clearly made our beliefs known. Many Christians here are part of other well known and just as much born again Christian denominations as you and the others here. Many are born again sold out for Jesus Christians who believe in healing differently than your denomination., the Holy Spirit gifts for today., such as speaking in tongues and the healing ministries. Not everyone is going to be in total agreement on these matters. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Today I attend an Assembly of God church. Before that I went regularly to a Baptist church and before that I went to a Southern Baptist church., and before that a GARBC Baptist church. All are full of my brothers and sisters in Christ. I've found a church that also believes as I do in healing in the atonement as well as other ministries that differ from my Baptist leanings.
But the other churches also preached Jesus and Him crucified and the foundations were and are the SAME. I can fellowship with them just as well and would never call them heretics or wolves for not believing the same as I do in other matters.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
But accusations get thrown out here daily and it's totally wrong because it's gossip and it's extremely prideful to want to lord it over other born again Christians.
It often goes into childish gibberish of; "your denomination is not as smart or as spiritual as me me me and mine mine mine...
Your denomination doesn't understand the Bible correctly like me me me.,and mine mine mine.
Your understanding of the Bible is in need of being just exactly like mine mine mine. And if your not like me me me you're either a foolish unlearned adult OR an out and out heretic bringing in damnable heresies.
The reason many of us who don't agree with you don't come back at you with such harsh accusation and ridicule is not because we are weak but because we understand you believe differently but that is ok. We know and have confidence in the Holy Spirit to teach you just as He has taught me and others and as He will be doing for the rest of our lives. He is able to lead us all into all truth as we seek Him and the truth in these Bible study forums.
But in the mean time., the silly me me me me me me attitude of no one can be different than me me me me and my denominational leanings is thee most childish and petty thing I've seen in a long time coming from adult Christians. Shooting other Christians is not new behavior I'm aware of this sad fact because I've seen it before with things as petty as the color of the new church carpeting or the new chairs being voted on.
I've seen churches split over who to hire as a pastor or who should be preaching while the pastor is away on vacation or who gets to be the song and worship leader. Such pettiness is all examples of the flesh at work and not the Holy Spirit and the Bible "teaching" as many involved in those silly childish church fights do totally and 100% believe. [/FONT]
[FONT="]
For some reason many here believe that it is their calling / duty / mandate ...to correct mature Christians who have been in the faith for yeears. But not all of us here particularly agree with all of the things in the Bible the same as you do or your Christian denomination does. This is quite an amazing thing to be shocked over IMO since so many of us come from different countries and cities and states and Bible believing back rounds and Bible teachings for all of us to be totally 100% in agreement would be impossible.[/FONT]
[FONT="]And this is even after many Christians have specifically and clearly made our beliefs known. Many Christians here are part of other well known and just as much born again Christian denominations as you and the others here. Many are born again sold out for Jesus Christians who believe in healing differently than your denomination., the Holy Spirit gifts for today., such as speaking in tongues and the healing ministries. Not everyone is going to be in total agreement on these matters. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Today I attend an Assembly of God church. Before that I went regularly to a Baptist church and before that I went to a Southern Baptist church., and before that a GARBC Baptist church. All are full of my brothers and sisters in Christ. I've found a church that also believes as I do in healing in the atonement as well as other ministries that differ from my Baptist leanings.
But the other churches also preached Jesus and Him crucified and the foundations were and are the SAME. I can fellowship with them just as well and would never call them heretics or wolves for not believing the same as I do in other matters.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
But accusations get thrown out here daily and it's totally wrong because it's gossip and it's extremely prideful to want to lord it over other born again Christians.
It often goes into childish gibberish of; "your denomination is not as smart or as spiritual as me me me and mine mine mine...
Your denomination doesn't understand the Bible correctly like me me me.,and mine mine mine.
Your understanding of the Bible is in need of being just exactly like mine mine mine. And if your not like me me me you're either a foolish unlearned adult OR an out and out heretic bringing in damnable heresies.
The reason many of us who don't agree with you don't come back at you with such harsh accusation and ridicule is not because we are weak but because we understand you believe differently but that is ok. We know and have confidence in the Holy Spirit to teach you just as He has taught me and others and as He will be doing for the rest of our lives. He is able to lead us all into all truth as we seek Him and the truth in these Bible study forums.
But in the mean time., the silly me me me me me me attitude of no one can be different than me me me me and my denominational leanings is thee most childish and petty thing I've seen in a long time coming from adult Christians. Shooting other Christians is not new behavior I'm aware of this sad fact because I've seen it before with things as petty as the color of the new church carpeting or the new chairs being voted on.
I've seen churches split over who to hire as a pastor or who should be preaching while the pastor is away on vacation or who gets to be the song and worship leader. Such pettiness is all examples of the flesh at work and not the Holy Spirit and the Bible "teaching" as many involved in those silly childish church fights do totally and 100% believe. [/FONT]
I posted this on another thread but part of it applies here too and the same other Christians were actually on my mind while typing it out. There is no reason to argue. It's obvious we each have differing opinions on many of the verses and we each live them out as we believe them. So no point in the arguing. I'll post this here and leave it at that. God blesses all of us in the household of faith!!
[FONT="]
For some reason many here believe that it is their calling / duty / mandate ...to correct mature Christians who have been in the faith for yeears. But not all of us here particularly agree with all of the things in the Bible the same as you do or your Christian denomination does. This is quite an amazing thing to be shocked over IMO since so many of us come from different countries and cities and states and Bible believing back rounds and Bible teachings for all of us to be totally 100% in agreement would be impossible.[/FONT]
[FONT="]And this is even after many Christians have specifically and clearly made our beliefs known. Many Christians here are part of other well known and just as much born again Christian denominations as you and the others here. Many are born again sold out for Jesus Christians who believe in healing differently than your denomination., the Holy Spirit gifts for today., such as speaking in tongues and the healing ministries. Not everyone is going to be in total agreement on these matters. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Today I attend an Assembly of God church. Before that I went regularly to a Baptist church and before that I went to a Southern Baptist church., and before that a GARBC Baptist church. All are full of my brothers and sisters in Christ. I've found a church that also believes as I do in healing in the atonement as well as other ministries that differ from my Baptist leanings.
But the other churches also preached Jesus and Him crucified and the foundations were and are the SAME. I can fellowship with them just as well and would never call them heretics or wolves for not believing the same as I do in other matters.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
But accusations get thrown out here daily and it's totally wrong because it's gossip and it's extremely prideful to want to lord it over other born again Christians.
It often goes into childish gibberish of; "your denomination is not as smart or as spiritual as me me me and mine mine mine...
Your denomination doesn't understand the Bible correctly like me me me.,and mine mine mine.
Your understanding of the Bible is in need of being just exactly like mine mine mine. And if your not like me me me you're either a foolish unlearned adult OR an out and out heretic bringing in damnable heresies.
The reason many of us who don't agree with you don't come back at you with such harsh accusation and ridicule is not because we are weak but because we understand you believe differently but that is ok. We know and have confidence in the Holy Spirit to teach you just as He has taught me and others and as He will be doing for the rest of our lives. He is able to lead us all into all truth as we seek Him and the truth in these Bible study forums.
But in the mean time., the silly me me me me me me attitude of no one can be different than me me me me and my denominational leanings is thee most childish and petty thing I've seen in a long time coming from adult Christians. Shooting other Christians is not new behavior I'm aware of this sad fact because I've seen it before with things as petty as the color of the new church carpeting or the new chairs being voted on.
I've seen churches split over who to hire as a pastor or who should be preaching while the pastor is away on vacation or who gets to be the song and worship leader. Such pettiness is all examples of the flesh at work and not the Holy Spirit and the Bible "teaching" as many involved in those silly childish church fights do totally and 100% believe. [/FONT]
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For some reason many here believe that it is their calling / duty / mandate ...to correct mature Christians who have been in the faith for yeears. But not all of us here particularly agree with all of the things in the Bible the same as you do or your Christian denomination does. This is quite an amazing thing to be shocked over IMO since so many of us come from different countries and cities and states and Bible believing back rounds and Bible teachings for all of us to be totally 100% in agreement would be impossible.[/FONT]
[FONT="]And this is even after many Christians have specifically and clearly made our beliefs known. Many Christians here are part of other well known and just as much born again Christian denominations as you and the others here. Many are born again sold out for Jesus Christians who believe in healing differently than your denomination., the Holy Spirit gifts for today., such as speaking in tongues and the healing ministries. Not everyone is going to be in total agreement on these matters. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Today I attend an Assembly of God church. Before that I went regularly to a Baptist church and before that I went to a Southern Baptist church., and before that a GARBC Baptist church. All are full of my brothers and sisters in Christ. I've found a church that also believes as I do in healing in the atonement as well as other ministries that differ from my Baptist leanings.
But the other churches also preached Jesus and Him crucified and the foundations were and are the SAME. I can fellowship with them just as well and would never call them heretics or wolves for not believing the same as I do in other matters.[/FONT]
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But accusations get thrown out here daily and it's totally wrong because it's gossip and it's extremely prideful to want to lord it over other born again Christians.
It often goes into childish gibberish of; "your denomination is not as smart or as spiritual as me me me and mine mine mine...
Your denomination doesn't understand the Bible correctly like me me me.,and mine mine mine.
Your understanding of the Bible is in need of being just exactly like mine mine mine. And if your not like me me me you're either a foolish unlearned adult OR an out and out heretic bringing in damnable heresies.
The reason many of us who don't agree with you don't come back at you with such harsh accusation and ridicule is not because we are weak but because we understand you believe differently but that is ok. We know and have confidence in the Holy Spirit to teach you just as He has taught me and others and as He will be doing for the rest of our lives. He is able to lead us all into all truth as we seek Him and the truth in these Bible study forums.
But in the mean time., the silly me me me me me me attitude of no one can be different than me me me me and my denominational leanings is thee most childish and petty thing I've seen in a long time coming from adult Christians. Shooting other Christians is not new behavior I'm aware of this sad fact because I've seen it before with things as petty as the color of the new church carpeting or the new chairs being voted on.
I've seen churches split over who to hire as a pastor or who should be preaching while the pastor is away on vacation or who gets to be the song and worship leader. Such pettiness is all examples of the flesh at work and not the Holy Spirit and the Bible "teaching" as many involved in those silly childish church fights do totally and 100% believe. [/FONT]
No he is not an utterance he is the Divine utterance. This connection to Him being our Faith, the Christ, the Divine utterances in our hearts and in our mouths is made by GOD and shared in Deut. 30:10-14 and Romans 10:6-8 not me.
Please reread the post it is all there.
Here is the text in verse 10:6-8 with minimal commentary.
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (Word) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (Word) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:6-8 KJV)
As was said this is a quote from Deut. 30.The people reading Romans would have known this and would have looked it up because at the time it was part of the Bible they had. Here is how it is given.
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)
This was and is Holy Scripture. They would have cross reference the Letter and the Holy Writ and would have concluded that:
the LORD our GOD will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed. For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (Anointed; GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (Anointed; GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (the Divine utterances; Christ the Anointed; GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law.) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: (that thou mayest do it) that is the word of faith, which we preach. And that my friend is the Faith movement in which we preach. And that is the Gospel!
Please reread the post it is all there.
Here is the text in verse 10:6-8 with minimal commentary.
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (Word) down from above
Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (Word) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;(Rom 10:6-8 KJV)
As was said this is a quote from Deut. 30.The people reading Romans would have known this and would have looked it up because at the time it was part of the Bible they had. Here is how it is given.
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)
This was and is Holy Scripture. They would have cross reference the Letter and the Holy Writ and would have concluded that:
the LORD our GOD will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed. For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (Anointed; GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances) down from above
Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (Anointed; GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (the Divine utterances; Christ the Anointed; GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law.) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: (that thou mayest do it) that is the word of faith, which we preach. And that my friend is the Faith movement in which we preach. And that is the Gospel!
I said...word of faith is faith in His Word. It's how I see this. We must have faith in what Jesus says even through Paul.
Did he say Preacher or Angela? No, he didn't. Did you ask him if he meant you? You assume.
Funny thing is that I don't follow any of those preachers. I've read some teachings when first born again, but my nursing career put a blot on my faith for a time. It's easier to put trust in what we can handle or see. That's not really faith.
So believe what you want.