Not By Works
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Nice try pal no dice though and the points above....no weight nor value because much of what you say I have not said nor indicated....wake up man...I made a valid, biblical statement about Paul and what he was inspired to write concerning the law and the righteousness of the law and you cannot accept it, but must deflect because it alone ruins your stance.....end of story!
You really need to quit lying..serious...I have consistently said the same thing from day one and your inability to tell the truth states alot about your stance before God...and while we are at it....take a class in English and learn how to properly interpret what is being said.....my comment is no different than saying what I have said before about works of gold, silver and precios stones and works of wood, hay and stubble yet both saved.....I absolutely cannot stand deceptive liars...and your taking the cake!
R
I appreciate what you're saying.
But when someone says works don't matter, because salvation is not by works (that part being true), and they then live like they don't matter and yet claim they are saved nonetheless, that is making grace a license to sin. There's no assuming about it. That person needs to examine themselves to see if they're even in the faith.
Anybody who judges someone just because they stopped going to church has a problem to.
We're supposed to do this with the unsaved too.
I don't believe we are to look down on even the unbeliever.
We are to love both the believer and the unbeliever.
But when someone says works don't matter, because salvation is not by works (that part being true), and they then live like they don't matter and yet claim they are saved nonetheless, that is making grace a license to sin. There's no assuming about it. That person needs to examine themselves to see if they're even in the faith.
Anybody who judges someone just because they stopped going to church has a problem to.
We're supposed to do this with the unsaved too.
I don't believe we are to look down on even the unbeliever.
We are to love both the believer and the unbeliever.
R
That's right. Grace is not a license to sin. That's why those who live in sin and think grace makes it so they can do that and still be saved will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus returns.
"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."-Galatians 5:19-21
Grace doesn't make it so any of us can 'live like this' and the part about not inheriting the kingdom not apply to us. That's making grace a license to sin. Which grace is not. You can try to make it one, but it is not. That's why you'll not be saved when Jesus comes back if you 'live in' sin thinking grace makes it so you can do that, because grace is not that.
Which part of all this do you not agree with, UnderGrace?
"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."-Galatians 5:19-21
Grace doesn't make it so any of us can 'live like this' and the part about not inheriting the kingdom not apply to us. That's making grace a license to sin. Which grace is not. You can try to make it one, but it is not. That's why you'll not be saved when Jesus comes back if you 'live in' sin thinking grace makes it so you can do that, because grace is not that.
Which part of all this do you not agree with, UnderGrace?
R
You don't seem to realize that all the scriptures he provided make it impossible for you to interpret what Paul said about himself the way you do.
Your interpretation makes the other verses he shared not true. But his use of the verses he provided does not make the single passage you cite not true. That's how we know which argument is the truth.
Your interpretation makes the other verses he shared not true. But his use of the verses he provided does not make the single passage you cite not true. That's how we know which argument is the truth.
U
Ralphie...Ralphie, you have much to learn
The kingdom is something we can enter into "now" which we will "be" in after our time here is completed.
But in order to enter it now, we must be "reborn" or "born again". We've already been born into the flesh, which is corruptible, and the kingdom within us in "incorruptible".
1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever
Paul in this verse in Galatians isn't talking about going to heaven or losing salvation.
What that verse is saying is the people who live like this are those that are not yet born again.
Paul is pointing to those people, telling the Galatians that is not who they are, they are born again, they live in the Spirit.
It's about reproducing His nature from the realm of the Spirit. Just as we did nothing to earn our status as sinners, we were "born" into the realm of sin. So it is the same with entering into the kingdom of heaven. You can't come through knowledge, studying, disciplinary action, good works of any kind . . it's not by what you do, but by what you're born into.
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God
The kingdom is something we can enter into "now" which we will "be" in after our time here is completed.
But in order to enter it now, we must be "reborn" or "born again". We've already been born into the flesh, which is corruptible, and the kingdom within us in "incorruptible".
1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever
Paul in this verse in Galatians isn't talking about going to heaven or losing salvation.
What that verse is saying is the people who live like this are those that are not yet born again.
Paul is pointing to those people, telling the Galatians that is not who they are, they are born again, they live in the Spirit.
It's about reproducing His nature from the realm of the Spirit. Just as we did nothing to earn our status as sinners, we were "born" into the realm of sin. So it is the same with entering into the kingdom of heaven. You can't come through knowledge, studying, disciplinary action, good works of any kind . . it's not by what you do, but by what you're born into.
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God
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When Originally posted this, was addressing different views people were quarrelling over: in humor making light of it. The response I got shocked me. But it helped me see the seriousness, as some saw differences in understanding as wilful lies, when the Truth of God in not even attained in our understanding and is the reason there is arguments. "Let God be true and every man a liar," implied that only in Christ (Not in our understanding") do we dwell in the Truth. We are not to lean on our understanding, if we think the Truth is in our understanding we would need to defend it: fear is being week in faith: needing to grow in Love. Not about acquiring more understanding but to stop quarreling. Our understanding will remain week and there is a time to cease from ourselves, otherwise "ever learning and not coming to the knowledge of the truth." "Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away." Until our spirit joined with the Holy Spirit, we can't bear the thought of suffering with Christ, neither could the apostles. The work of Grace, is God's influence through Faith. "This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He has sent." This work of God "believing on Him" is ongoing from the Garden of Gethsemane, (where God meets us at the end of ourselves, to bear our sin), to the Resurrection, and past the Resurrection to the Restoration of all things for those who don't attain to the resurrection. The meaning of the word Salvation is taken from restoring a ship to it's new condition, to describe Fellow-ship with God. It was the best English word to describe renewal. Jesus referred to the renewal of all things. "What God does endures for ever." When we stumble even as Peter, we don't need to be saved and immersed in Him all over again. Jesus said, only our feet need to be washed. It's not by accident that Jesus stumbled bearing the cross and a black man was taken to help bear the cross. "Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church." We recognise Paul's description here and others he mentions of "Fellowship in the sufferings of Christ as "The work of God." "I will never leave you or give up on you." "He is able to save to the uttermost those who call on him." Some people's theology doesn't make room for present and future salvation, based on the finished work of Christ on the cross, otherwise in their view would be saved by works, is it that they still can't see past themselves, to see the work of God? "Daily pick up your cross and follow Me." What about past thence does that help? "We had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves but in God that raises the dead." At the time Paul was in conflict with religious leaders under the law, whose god was their bely; desiring to remain in charge and causing the multitude of the city to be divided: between law and Grace. Later in another Church "There is envy and jealousy among you, aren't you in the mind of the flesh," Here addressing Christians. The good thing about having different views is accepting limitation in our view and continue learning to walk in Love. "All things work together for good to them that Love the lord."
How can you know that you have resurrection power in you except that you are a new person?
Conversion proves to the converted. The new birth is the experience of conversion. You know that you know you are different.
People who are still living in the sin of their old life not growing up into Christ do not have resurrection power in them.
People living in the sin of their old life are not born again. And I doubt that they are fellowshipping on a continual basis with those who are. So of course they would not identify with the ressurrection.
They will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back.
Inheriting the kingdom of God scriptures are speaking only about those unsaved. How one knows this is true, is because only those born from above have the kingdom of God within. Here the KJV will benefit one if one desires truth. Each scripture addressing works of flesh not inheriting, it mentions the kingdom of God. Plus those born again have had a spiritual circumcision of flesh.
One scripture talks of good works for reward inheriting the kingdom of heaven, and it's where God separates sheep from goats.
Each of us has the responsibility to examine our lives to see if we are really saved. Instead we have a church that is teaching us to ignore that Biblical counsel and just take it that you are saved and that how you live means nothing toward knowing if you're saved because salvation is not by works. There are no sermons being prepared today for tomorrow's service about 2 Corinthians 13:5.
"Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?"
Are you in faith?
The church has decided that is unnecessary since getting saved is not by works, which it is not but hardly means you don't have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back. We know we have faith and are saved by how we live.
Your opinion only.
I think you shall go on ignore now. Too much rehashing and never coming to agreement on anything is fruitless
Conversion proves to the converted.
The new birth is the experience of conversion. You know that you know you are different. People who are still living in the sin of their old life not growing up into Christ do not have resurrection power in them.
People living in the sin of their old life are not born again. And I doubt that they are fellowshipping on a continual basis with those who are. So of course they would not identify with the ressurrection.
They will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back.
Inheriting the kingdom of God scriptures are speaking only about those unsaved. How one knows this is true, is because only those born from above have the kingdom of God within. Here the KJV will benefit one if one desires truth. Each scripture addressing works of flesh not inheriting, it mentions the kingdom of God. Plus those born again have had a spiritual circumcision of flesh.
One scripture talks of good works for reward inheriting the kingdom of heaven, and it's where God separates sheep from goats.
Each of us has the responsibility to examine our lives to see if we are really saved. Instead we have a church that is teaching us to ignore that Biblical counsel and just take it that you are saved and that how you live means nothing toward knowing if you're saved because salvation is not by works. There are no sermons being prepared today for tomorrow's service about 2 Corinthians 13:5.
"Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?"
Are you in faith?
The church has decided that is unnecessary since getting saved is not by works, which it is not but hardly means you don't have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back. We know we have faith and are saved by how we live.
Your opinion only.
I think you shall go on ignore now. Too much rehashing and never coming to agreement on anything is fruitless
Listen, you: when someone makes something up about another person that is completely false, misleading, and slanderous, then posts it on the board as if it were factual, it is lies, plain and simple, not a misunderstanding of Scripture, but willful, mean spirited, and deliberate attempts to discredit another. Is it a serious matter? Why, yes, yes it is! There is a commandment about it, even It is called bearing false witness. God hates lying lips.
It is called bearing false witness. God hates lying lips.