Not By Works

[TruthTalk]

Hi Bill

Do you think there may be roots of some kind of thinking that causes one to go foul of truth? I've been kicking this around a bit. Just wondering what you think.

Simple answer, they exchange the truth for a lie.......people who teach a false gospel should not be psychoanalyzed, rather expose their corrupt teaching.

"They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen." Romans1:25

 

[preacher4truth]

Hi BillG, I wish Jesus was a soft as you are on false teacher's when He return's, but He will not be,
"I never knew you", False teachers need to be called out and made public for what the claim is the truth. It does not matter how or where the received their false teaching,"which is what they have heard and been taught." ." A false gospel will lead people straight to hell and you should know this. If what they are teaching is a false christ shout it from the pubic square so that people are aware.

The True Gospel is plain and simple so that even a child would understand. Frankly I am having trouble following your gospel message here. It sounds like your sympathy for false teacher's is misplaced and should be redirected to those who follow their damnable teaching. Yes everyone is entitle to their own opinion.

I have no idea what you are talking about here;

I've been saying this to him all along. "They" get coddled, "those" who expose them and defend truth against them get the treatment he should be giving to the false teachers.

It's unreal, so I censor the nonsense.

But here is the issue, and he says it himself: "Just my thoughts..."

Exactly! That's the problem in a nutshell, the stance isn't biblical, it's "Just my thoughts..." We need men of God who take an unashamed stance without worrying about offending men. It is God we're offending when we don't take a stance, people are too worried about what some human being will think.

Nothing personal against BillG, I'm just going to continue to oppose this kind of compromise.

The fact is some false teachers are willful, and then there are some who are duped into following along. They aren't doing it in innocence, they creep in unaware to others, in covert fashion and teach their damnable heresies, note Jude, 2 Timothy, 2 Peter, Romans 16, 2 John, 1 John &c.

Anyhow, good stance you're taking brother, as always, I appreciate it!

 

[VCO]

In your signature I noticed the reference to filthy rags. I recently found out that is an incorrect translation used because of the nasty word used. The correct translation is sh*t. That takes it down much lower.

No, the Term "Filthy Rags", was cleaned up on purpose, but NOT BECAUSE OF CRUDE LANGUAGE.

Please forgive me, my sisters in CHRIST. But I need to correct this misunderstanding.


Isaiah 64:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment {KJV uses the term "rags".}; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.



This term is actually a soiled mentral rag. Therefore that is how useless GOD considers WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS, as deeds that were of the OPINION, which is FALSE THINKING, they would have bought or paid part of our SALVATION from GOD.

 

[justpassinthrough]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

no one can do enough works to earn the right to be born again.


Once we are regenerated then comes the choice of each Christian to either live according to the flesh and practice the works of the flesh or to live according to the Spirit within and practice righteousness.

Those Christians who practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.


[FONT=&quot]Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[c] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]21 envy, murders,[d] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21



JPT[/FONT]

 

[VCO]

Generally, the amount of a speeding fine is based on the speed over the posted limit regardless if by accident or design.

CORRECT, but ADDITIONAL FINES CAN BE ADDED BY THE JUDGE FOR HABITUAL OFFENDERS.

 

[Magenta]

No, the Term "Filthy Rags", was cleaned up on purpose, but NOT BECAUSE OF CRUDE LANGUAGE.

Please forgive me, my sisters in CHRIST. But I need to correct this misunderstanding.

Isaiah 64:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment {KJV uses the term "rags".}; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

This term is actually a soiled mentral rag. Therefore that is how useless GOD considers WORKS RIGHTEOUS as deeds that were of the OPINION, which is FALSELY THINKING, they would have bought or paid part of our SALVATION from GOD.

Thank you for clearing that up Women don't call it "the curse" for nothing! The idea of having no gender and no marriage in the life to come is quite appealing for a number of reasons

 

[TruthTalk]

I've been saying this to him all along. "They" get coddled, "those" who expose them and defend truth against them get the treatment he should be giving to the false teachers.

It's unreal, so I censor the nonsense.

But here is the issue, and he says it himself: "Just my thoughts..."

Exactly! That's the problem in a nutshell, the stance isn't biblical, it's "Just my thoughts..." We need men of God who take an unashamed stance without worrying about offending men. It is God we're offending when we don't take a stance, people are too worried about what some human being will think.

Nothing personal against BillG, I'm just going to continue to oppose this kind of compromise.

The fact is some false teachers are willful, and then there are some who are duped into following along. They aren't doing it in innocence, they creep in unaware to others, in covert fashion and teach their damnable heresies, note Jude, 2 Timothy, 2 Peter, Romans 16, 2 John, 1 John &c.

Anyhow, good stance you're taking brother, as always, I appreciate it!

But here is the issue, and he says it himself: "Just my thoughts..."

We should see the world through biblical eye's, "Not my thoughts....."

I call bleeding heart liberals, well meaning folks who place their emotions with the wrong doers,
a sugar coated gospel.

Definition: Bleeding hearts; disparaging: a person who shows extravagant sympathy especially for an object of alleged persecution.

Thanks Preacher 4 your insights, I'm still not fully recovered, almost not yet.....

 

[Endoscopy]

Yeah... I'm not so sure about that.

I get regular emails from this person.

Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg


https://israelbiblicalstudies.com/teacher/eli-lizorkin-eyzenberg/

Read his language skills. One of his emails made reference to this. I put up his knowledge against your not sure about that any time.

 

[preacher4truth]

We should see the world through biblical eye's, "Not my thoughts....."

I call bleeding heart liberals, well meaning folks who place their emotions with the wrong doers,
a sugar coated gospel.

Definition: Bleeding hearts; disparaging: a person who shows extravagant sympathy especially for an object of alleged persecution.

Thanks Preacher 4 your insights, I'm still not fully recovered, almost not yet.....

You're welcome brother and thanks.

When we have a guy on here telling us we're lost, going to hell, that he is wise, humble, loving, full of good, does good works, you'd think that would be enough not to defend him but that is exactly what he got, defended from one on here.

But then he also tells us that the imputed righteousness of Christ is "Jesus Spray," "security in Christ is an idol," "the imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that does not work" and, that "the cross of Christ is not enough" and gets defended in his teachings for this as well and that we should lend him an ear!

Not happening, and not sorry.

Then it was mentioned how nice a guy he was to him in PM behind the scenes, such a wonderful person! But of course he was, birds of a feather flock together!

All false teachers love and are kind to those who don't take a stance against them and defend them against those who do.

Lend him and ear? No thanks!

 

[FlyingDove]

Personal works no matter how good, can't atone for sin or achieve salvation

Repentance doesn't/can't make compensation for any acts of transgression.

Repentance is no atonement for sin.

Repentance is insufficient to achieve salvation

There is only one atonement for sin!

Personal faith placed in a sinless Christ's redemptive atoning work. That paid the Laws required price for sin = DEATH Rom 6:23

1 Cor 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

(NOTE: according to the scriptures, after Christ ""died"" for our """sins"" was buried & on the 3 day & he rose again.)

Salvation is appropriated thru personal """faith"" & faith alone placed in Jesus redemptive, sacrificial sin atoning work

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(NOTE: By Grace are we saved thru FAITH)

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(NOTE: NOT OF/THRU OUR WORKS)

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
(NOTE: Justified by Faith, not works)

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
(NOTE: We access Gods Grace thru Faith placed in Christ's finished redemptive sin atoning work. Found in his death (sins wage paid in full), burial & resurrection (God's stamp/receipt for payment received/accepted)

 

[TruthTalk]

You're welcome brother and thanks.

When we have a guy on here telling us we're lost, going to hell, that he is wise, humble, loving, full of good, does good works, you'd think that would be enough not to defend him but that is exactly what he got, defended from one on here.

But then he also tells us that the imputed righteousness of Christ is "Jesus Spray," "security in Christ is an idol," "the imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that does not work" and, that "the cross of Christ is not enough" and gets defended in his teachings for this as well and that we should lend him an ear!

Not happening, and not sorry.

Then it was mentioned how nice a guy he was to him in PM behind the scenes, such a wonderful person! But of course he was, birds of a feather flock together!

All false teachers love and are kind to those who don't take a stance against them and defend them against those who do.

Lend him and ear? No thanks!

Amen! Kid's who have gone through a traumatic upbringing, (who has not), will sometimes misplace there sympathy with the wrong person, thinking gee I wish someone would have been sympathetic to me all the while when I was being treated so badly. Jesus is the answer to all the wrongs that we have suffered in our life. Unfortunately that does not always help the abused person every time.

PeterJens, definitely a bleeding heart with a sugar coated gospel. Hey we all have suffered abuse at some level and who does not want to have a sympathetic friend who will acknowledge our pain. Many have gone astray listening to this liberal message and they will take with them all who will drink their sugar coated poison. Jim Jone's and his deadly coolaid was one such deceiver.

Don't kid yourself. God left Christians with the Comforter, the Holy Spirit who leads us into "all truth." If you perceive that you are being deceived, the Holy Spirit will reveal this to you.

If you think this is inconceivable look at all the nice folks who are now following Ralph, and are calling him Ralphie. A false teacher called Ralphie isn't that sweet.

 

[7777pinacled]

No, the Term "Filthy Rags", was cleaned up on purpose, but NOT BECAUSE OF CRUDE LANGUAGE.

Please forgive me, my sisters in CHRIST. But I need to correct this misunderstanding.


Isaiah 64:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment {KJV uses the term "rags".}; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.



This term is actually a soiled mentral rag. Therefore that is how useless GOD considers WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS, as deeds that were of the OPINION, which is FALSE THINKING, they would have bought or paid part of our SALVATION from GOD.

This language is used to represent desolation.
Like the woman who had an issue of blood for yrs.

And so the falling away of those who deny our Lord will be like the leaves of a tree as it dies.

 

[Ralph-]

( and also can't receive correction. ralph kramdem has been corrected many times. but, he will not receive it ).

And you've received correction of your doctrine how many times?

 

[Ralph-]

He keeps saying if we don't have works when Jesus comes, then we won't get into the kingdom.

Well, that's not exactly true.

'Not exactly true'.
Huh oh, here it comes.
The word doesn't really mean what it says.

First, he aims this nonsense at believers. Please ponder this, especially newer believers.

That's his first mistake because it doesn't apply to true converts. All true believers have works and evidence of conversion.

Finally, maybe you're getting it! This is what I'm driving at.

If you who claim to be a believer but do not have the life of a believer, what does that mean according to what you yourself just said? You aren't a believer. If you were, you'd have works and the evidence of salvation. You said so yourself.

And did you forget this is what Calvin taught? You Calvinist, you.
This is what I'm trying to point out to you Calvy's. You don't even realize that you aren't being true to your own sacred doctrine.

"Ralph-"

Seriously, you don't need to do this. You're not using your real name, I'm not either. Few here are. That's how it works in this world of psychos on line. But feel free to end your hypocrisy about me not using my real name while you don't and start using your real name.

and other false teachers like him make the descriptive language of God in Scripture concerning believers into something they have to start doing. Believers are already doing this, God described them so we would know, so we could take comfort and warning to examine.

Exactly! That's why the person who is NOT doing this already is not a believer. Get it? Read your own words.

So "Ralph-" spends a lot of time calling believer's lost, conflating sheep with goats, separating sheep from sheep, sifting wheat from wheat, instead of wheat from chaff, while telling us all how we must behave as he does so many things which contradict his own warnings.

I've only been posting what Jesus and the Apostles said. 'Believers' who don't live the life aren't believers. They are goats. They are chaff.

And the behavior believers must have is not my invention. I'm sharing right out of the Bible. You being a preacher should know this. If you don't accept what I'm saying the right behaviors of the believer are right out of the Bible, I wonder how you describe the behaviors believers have.

We've numerous times called "Ralph-" on this, his misrepresentations, lies, twisting of words, bearing false witness.

You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to continually harass me and accuse me this way and create a hostile environment here by doing this. I will continue to report what you're doing.

His second mistake is not recognizing that believers are already in God's kingdom; Colossians 1:13-14. At the return of Christ believers will enter fully into this eternal kingdom. As of right now, we are in his kingdom while here on earth.

Believers will inherit the kingdom, not unbelievers. Even you said that believers act like believers. Unbelievers act like unbelievers. This is right out of your own Calvin doctrine. But you say I'm being false, misleading, etc. when I say that those who don't live like believers are not believers and won't be saved when Jesus comes back.

You seem to have forgotten that your own sacred Calvin doctrine says the person who does not walk the walk is not of the elect and is not saved and will not be saved.

 

[VCO]

Thank you for clearing that up Women don't call it "the curse" for nothing! The
idea of having no gender and no marriage in the life to come is quite appealing for a number of reasons

The idea that there is no marriage in Heaven, is quite Biblical.


Matthew 22:30 (HCSB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like angels in heaven.


Not sure that the term NO GENDER FITS:



Zechariah 5:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Then I looked up and saw two women approaching with the wind in their wings. Their wings were like those of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between earth and sky.



While almost exclusively, the Angels that appeared to Men were MALE, that verse seems to imply that angels can been Female too. If that is the case, it could be that Messenger Angels are Men, while the Female Angels, GOD intends they serve a DIFFERENT PURPOSE.

 

[Ralph-]

well its biblically based

but if you are born again
and saved by the blood of Jesus if you were to die at any point

and you say your works can remove you from Gods gift to all who believe after getting a new heart from God
and a new mind from God and being a new creature
if you continue to live
then youre saying works "keep" you saved by definition...

Once saved always saved comes from Calvinism. The rest of this Calvinist teaching is, a person does not remove themselves from God's gift by falling away, THEY NEVER HAD IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

They are not saved despite their falling away as many are now interpreting once saved always saved to mean. Falling away shows they were never saved to begin with. Once saved always saved is not the safety net people think it is for a 'believer' to be found 'living in' the life described in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Ephesians 5:5, Galatians 5:21, and 1 John 3:6-10 and still be saved. That's not once saved always saved doctrine.

If you're going to believe a Calvinist doctrine, which you are certainly entitled to do, you should first of all know it, and secondly stay true to it.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

If you're going to believe a Calvinist doctrine, which you are certainly entitled to do, you should first of all know it, and secondly stay true to it.

hmmm strange accusation
im not calvinist

 

[posthuman]

do you believe ralph is correct?

About some things, yes. About other things, no, and about still other things, not sure.

Do you believe we're all acting towards each other in the way we should?

There are some warnings in the Bible about watching out that we don't 'bite and devour one another' i could pull up. About that in particular, yes i think Ralph and i are on pretty close to the same page. i hope. I do my fair share of biting ppl so i am not about to start pointing that particular finger.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

About some things, yes. About other things, no, and about still other things, not sure.

Do you believe we're all acting towards each other in the way we should?

in some ways yes...

in other ways no

 

[posthuman]

Edit.....ANGRY bullheadedness. You're not like that, posthumanoid. Most are though in this thread. They can't calm down and just talk about things. They're constantly offended and blow up.

Hahaha yes, I am bull-headed, you're right.

i like to think of it as, 'not impossible to change my mind but you will have to work very hard to convince me, don't give up.'