Not By Works
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Here is Paul on the subject.
Romans 7 NIV
The Law and Sin
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
Romans 7 NIV
The Law and Sin
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
R
Look at verse 4. Paul said they had not struggled against sin to the point of blood YET. Few in the church do. But some do. The thief on the cross was one of them. He was suffering horribly but he endured to the end and did not revile and mock Jesus despite his suffering. The other thief did not show any signs of an enduring faith. We know who was saved and who was not by this. We don't even wonder. But some in this thread would have it that we can't tell where saving faith resides by behavior.
R
Ralphie,
No offense but you would either make a great lawyer or an absolutely horrible one, you have the absolute knack of mangling everything people state.
Well I am breaking my promise by engaging, but I will go a bit longer maybe.
Late here response will have to wait.
No offense but you would either make a great lawyer or an absolutely horrible one, you have the absolute knack of mangling everything people state.
Well I am breaking my promise by engaging, but I will go a bit longer maybe.
Late here response will have to wait.
J
That's a good one too,you really are quite clueless and humorous,I would ask you to "show evidence" of your "claim" but that would be "pointless",if you are really going to "Zero in on Noname" with "false accusations" then one can conclude that most what you say whether biblical or not is "false" way to go on reducing your "credibility".
why does the BDF do this to so many ppl??
Ralph, i'm not going to put you on ignore. just so you know.
this thread moves too fast for me to keep up with it -- i just pop in when i have some time every so often. so i miss things. i forget to reply to things or they get so buried by new posts that sometimes i feel like it'd be distracting to do so. this isn't quite like all sitting down together over beverages and talking.
whether we agree or not about something doesn't make me want to go to war with you. i'm human like ((most of?)) the rest of us, and i speak out when i should be quiet, talking instead of listening, and do and say foolish things. if i've been rude, forgive me. i kinda go through this website **assuming** people have thick skins and that we can use strong words and tones without wrecking the fellowship we ought to more or less all be sharing. you trust your righteousness to the blood of Christ - that's enough for me to call you brother. brothers fuss and fight, it's natural, but they shouldn't forget their love.
i should be more gentle, and more patient, and more kind. i know that.
lol yes, forever increasing in such things.
((just so you know))
R
There's a big difference between not agreeing with someone's doctrine and being scorned and ostracized for saying what Jesus and the Apostles said. Lawless people will be rejected when He comes back, not saved. Dead faith can not save. That's why works have to accompany salvation. you're pretty much inviting a flogging for saying this in the church these days.
There's a global industry of good works. "Humanitarian" efforts to change the world. Billions of $ are spent and in some cases nothing changes. The world has a lot of works but they are not centered on The Lord. Atheists have works, they believe they can be "good without God" None of those works get them into heaven.
