Not By Works
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Well, good. 
I'm glad you don't believe that works earn or keep salvation. Because they don't.
Salvation is guaranteed the very moment we believe. Let me ask this question of you, I asked someone else the other day but I forget who it was..
Now, what about the people who are incapable of doing works for other people? Such people as a paralyzed person in a wheelchair, who cannot move or communicate in any way? Or a shut-in who has such a phobia about going out in the world and refuses to leave their house? They're locked away in their own little world, so they can't possibly go do something good for someone else. What do you think God will say to them? That they blew it, or do you think He'd understand?
I'm glad you don't believe that works earn or keep salvation. Because they don't.Salvation is guaranteed the very moment we believe. Let me ask this question of you, I asked someone else the other day but I forget who it was..
Now, what about the people who are incapable of doing works for other people? Such people as a paralyzed person in a wheelchair, who cannot move or communicate in any way? Or a shut-in who has such a phobia about going out in the world and refuses to leave their house? They're locked away in their own little world, so they can't possibly go do something good for someone else. What do you think God will say to them? That they blew it, or do you think He'd understand?
Here is at least one mistake "Ralph-" is making here, not sure how many have caught it.
He keeps saying if we don't have works when Jesus comes, then we won't get into the kingdom.
Well, that's not exactly true.
First, he aims this nonsense at believers. Please ponder this, especially newer believers.
That's his first mistake because it doesn't apply to true converts. All true believers have works and evidence of conversion.
"Ralph-" and other false teachers like him make the descriptive language of God in Scripture concerning believers into something they have to start doing. Believers are already doing this, God described them so we would know, so we could take comfort and warning to examine.
So "Ralph-" spends a lot of time calling believer's lost, conflating sheep with goats, separating sheep from sheep, sifting wheat from wheat, instead of wheat from chaff, while telling us all how we must behave as he does so many things which contradict his own warnings.
We've numerous times called "Ralph-" on this, his misrepresentations, lies, twisting of words, bearing false witness. Obviously he thinks these warnings only apply to others, he sees himself as exempt and his behavior, unchecked, lends logically to this conclusion.
His second mistake is not recognizing that believers are already in God's kingdom; Colossians 1:13-14. At the return of Christ believers will enter fully into this eternal kingdom. As of right now, we are in his kingdom while here on earth.
It is the little, subtle mistakes like these that false teachers make which trouble and deceive others.
He keeps saying if we don't have works when Jesus comes, then we won't get into the kingdom.
Well, that's not exactly true.
First, he aims this nonsense at believers. Please ponder this, especially newer believers.
That's his first mistake because it doesn't apply to true converts. All true believers have works and evidence of conversion.
"Ralph-" and other false teachers like him make the descriptive language of God in Scripture concerning believers into something they have to start doing. Believers are already doing this, God described them so we would know, so we could take comfort and warning to examine.
So "Ralph-" spends a lot of time calling believer's lost, conflating sheep with goats, separating sheep from sheep, sifting wheat from wheat, instead of wheat from chaff, while telling us all how we must behave as he does so many things which contradict his own warnings.
We've numerous times called "Ralph-" on this, his misrepresentations, lies, twisting of words, bearing false witness. Obviously he thinks these warnings only apply to others, he sees himself as exempt and his behavior, unchecked, lends logically to this conclusion.
His second mistake is not recognizing that believers are already in God's kingdom; Colossians 1:13-14. At the return of Christ believers will enter fully into this eternal kingdom. As of right now, we are in his kingdom while here on earth.
It is the little, subtle mistakes like these that false teachers make which trouble and deceive others.
These 1st 7 because they reveal todays gospel of salvation:
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
These because they reveal our salvation is by GRACE thru FAITH. And not because of our law keeping or personal works.
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, & called us with an holy calling, not according to our works but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Ephesians 2:8 By grace are ye saved through faith not of yourselves it is the gift of God
9 Not of works lest any man should boast
Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God
All the above show we access Gods GRACE. Thru our FAITH, placed in the redemptive sin atoning sacrifice, found in the death, burial & resurrection of Jesus the Christ!
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
These because they reveal our salvation is by GRACE thru FAITH. And not because of our law keeping or personal works.
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, & called us with an holy calling, not according to our works but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Ephesians 2:8 By grace are ye saved through faith not of yourselves it is the gift of God
9 Not of works lest any man should boast
Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God
All the above show we access Gods GRACE. Thru our FAITH, placed in the redemptive sin atoning sacrifice, found in the death, burial & resurrection of Jesus the Christ!
true. but notice, on here, and in life, most works salvationist are men. lots of us have these overinflated male egos that say " I have to take credit for some part of this, it can't be all God, I have to have input on some level."
that is why some will argue in favor of working for salvation so hard. that can't " let go and let God ".
( and also can't receive correction. ralph kramdem has been corrected many times. but, he will not receive it ).
that is why some will argue in favor of working for salvation so hard. that can't " let go and let God ".
( and also can't receive correction. ralph kramdem has been corrected many times. but, he will not receive it ).
R
You don't have to have legs and arms that work and go out of the house to not be envious, not be jealous, not be greedy, not be covetous, not be idolatrous, not be hateful and contemptuous, not be full of lust, not be full of adultery or fornication, be kind, be patient, be self controlled, be peaceable, be gentle, etc. Especially now at this time where we all have this window into the world right in front of us through which we can indulge all the sinful appetites of the flesh from the comfort of our secret place. Note all the things you do not need to go out of the house to do:
immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.-Galatians 5:19-21
In Galatians 6:10, Paul talks about as we have opportunity we should do good to all people, especially the household of faith. These things that appear in the passage above really have very little limitation on them as to opportunity. It seems almost constantly that we are to do good in these areas, but giving to the poor and things like that don't present themselves as opportunities nearly as much. So I think what I'm listing here is actually of more importance for the Christian to do. And which by the way, which I see Christians in general especially lacking in. They are good at church programs, serving, being deacons, etc. but lousy at being nice people. Ask any waitress who works Sundays. They constitute the lawless ones whom Jesus says he does not know and who he will reject.
immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.-Galatians 5:19-21
In Galatians 6:10, Paul talks about as we have opportunity we should do good to all people, especially the household of faith. These things that appear in the passage above really have very little limitation on them as to opportunity. It seems almost constantly that we are to do good in these areas, but giving to the poor and things like that don't present themselves as opportunities nearly as much. So I think what I'm listing here is actually of more importance for the Christian to do. And which by the way, which I see Christians in general especially lacking in. They are good at church programs, serving, being deacons, etc. but lousy at being nice people. Ask any waitress who works Sundays. They constitute the lawless ones whom Jesus says he does not know and who he will reject.
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R
Wonder how this "chap" who joined in August 17 has witnessed things on this site "these last couple of years?"
Oh, I know, he means from what he has read, like old posts.
Oh, I know, he means from what he has read, like old posts.
I have been on forums since 2005. Never have I seen so much resistance in forums to obedience than I have now. I know why.
R
How do you know a position that I have not said either way I have? You're assuming you know my position. Which is fine. You can do that if you want. But you'd probably be SHOCKED if I told you everything that I think about once saved always saved and the Bible. Utterly shocked. Both Calvinists and Arminians.
But anyway if two people stand before Jesus at his return and neither believes, and because they don't believe they have no works, they both go into the furnace, not into the kingdom. Now, explain what it matters if one of them never believed to begin with and the other did believe but fell away? You'll see that once saved always saved is absolutely irrelevant to whether a person living in a Galatians 5:23 life will be saved when Jesus comes back. Absolutely irrelevant. The only way that it could be relevant is if you believe that the unchanged person will be saved despite his 'living in' sin. That's making grace a license to sin.
But anyway if two people stand before Jesus at his return and neither believes, and because they don't believe they have no works, they both go into the furnace, not into the kingdom. Now, explain what it matters if one of them never believed to begin with and the other did believe but fell away? You'll see that once saved always saved is absolutely irrelevant to whether a person living in a Galatians 5:23 life will be saved when Jesus comes back. Absolutely irrelevant. The only way that it could be relevant is if you believe that the unchanged person will be saved despite his 'living in' sin. That's making grace a license to sin.
N
well its biblically based
but if you are born again
and saved by the blood of Jesus if you were to die at any point
and you say your works can remove you from Gods gift to all who believe after getting a new heart from God
and a new mind from God and being a new creature
if you continue to live
then youre saying works "keep" you saved by definition...
because you imply it is up to what you do to keep you saved
but if you are born again
and saved by the blood of Jesus if you were to die at any point
and you say your works can remove you from Gods gift to all who believe after getting a new heart from God
and a new mind from God and being a new creature
if you continue to live
then youre saying works "keep" you saved by definition...
because you imply it is up to what you do to keep you saved
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