Not By Works

[Ralph-]

Salvation isn't by works. It's by grace through our faith... Good works naturally follow salvation BUT are worthless if done for the wrong reasons..

That's what I'm saying. That's why the person who has no works is not saved and will not be saved when Jesus comes back no matter how sure he is that he is saved. His life shows he is not. He will go into the furnace when Jesus comes back, not be saved.

 

[Budman]

Why can't you resist sinning? After all, you said:

resist it in the power of the Spirit. If you can't do that then you are not born again

How many sins will damn one, Ralph?

By admitting you still sin, you have placed yourself in a rather sticky situation, for the Bible says:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God" (1 John 3:9).

 

[Ralph-]

Don't be deceived into thinking your sin shows you are not trying to earn your salvation. Because it's also true that your sin shows you do not even know Christ in salvation in the first place. That's the part people are forgetting. It's right there in the Matthew 7 passage they use to show that working for your salvation won't save you. Well neither will living in a lawless disobedient life. That shows you are not born again to begin with.

 

[Ralph-]

Why can't you resist sinning? After all, you said:



How many sins will damn one, Ralph?

By admitting you still sin, you have placed yourself in a rather sticky situation, for the Bible says:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God" (1 John 3:9).

Why are you ignoring what I wrote? I explained it.

 

[Budman]

Don't be deceived into thinking your sin shows you are not trying to earn your salvation. Because it's also true that your sin shows you do not even know Christ in salvation in the first place.

Ralph, you've admitted you still sin. According to you, that proves you don't know Christ.

 

[Limey410v2]

He endured to the end.
A short way to the end for him, but a terrible one. He resisted sin and endured and overcame. That is what is required of saved people, or else they are not saved.

But you are being taught that if have to endure to the end that's you trying to earn your salvation, not knowing that enduring to the end is the SIGN of your faith in Christ in salvation.

It is being taught in the new eternal security doctrine that your sin shows you are not trying to save yourself, and so you are saved because of that. And that if you have to be obedient to be saved that is you trying to save yourself. So your disobedience shows you are not trying to earn your salvation and so you are indeed saved.

This teaching ignores the words of Jesus that say the one who is disobedient is the one who will be rejected when he comes back, not just the ones who thought their works of ministerial service were going to make it good with Jesus-Matthew 7.

You yourself said you are of the doctrinal persuasion that, whether you realize it or not, teaches this, but which we can not discuss. You probably don't know that this doctrine teaches all this. Of course they deny that they teach this. Just as many of you are doing in this thread.

Again, you assume too much about what I beleive.

 

[Budman]

Why are you ignoring what I wrote? I explained it.

No, you did not.

How many sins will damn you, Ralph?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, you did not.

How many sins will damn you, Ralph?

It just gets worse..

 

[Budman]

Poor Ralph has backed himself into a corner.

 

[Limey410v2]

No, you did not.

How many sins will damn you, Ralph?

I will answer that for him. None!. The penalty for sin was nailed to the cross. Thank God. Then Salvation. We accept what Jesus did for us and ask Him to enter in to our lives via the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, then we are a new creation in Christ. From that moment through eternity. Not for what we accomplished or will ever accomplish, but because of what God accomplished.

 

[Budman]

I will answer that for him. None!. The penalty for sin was nailed to the cross. Thank God. Then Salvation. We accept what Jesus did for us and ask Him to enter in to our lives via the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, then we are a new creation in Christ. From that moment through eternity. Not for what we accomplished or will ever accomplish, but because of what God accomplished.

Exactly.

 

[Gracie_14]

Ralph, you've admitted you still sin. According to you, that proves you don't know Christ.

oh for goodness sake, we all sin no matter how hard we try not to. thats why we stay grounded in Christ so we could avoid slipping into sin. it doesnt mean when someone does sin, that person does not know Christ. what are you saying? because its confusing…

 

[Budman]

oh for goodness sake, we all sin no matter how hard we try not to. thats why we stay grounded in Christ so we could avoid slipping into sin. it doesnt mean when someone does sin, that person does not know Christ. what are you saying? because its confusing…

Please read at least the last half hour of this thread. I'm simply using Ralph's statements against him.

 

[followjesus]

You're avoiding the question.

Do you still sin?

1 john 2 : 1-6 " My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. <<<< this, does not nullify or exclude this >>>>3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."


christian doctrine teaches christians to repent of thier sin, learn and keep the commandments of God given through Jesus Christ. the 2 things Grace, and truth they go together. obviously, were taught NOT to sin, period. but this needs to be understood that if and when we do fail, fall down, get off track, do something sinful even after we have come to Jesus, he is still our advocate, he is still our intercessor in the presence of God, and He is still willing to forgive those who repent and follow.

we have to be able to accept the whole message, because Jesus is the propititation, or "atonement" for our sins. this doesnt mean that God just said " okay nevermind about the whole sin is death thing, i forgive you" that is not what happened at all. instead, Jesus Christ, Gods only begotten Son, became the scapegoat for our sins, the whipping boy the One who is punished for the things that we have all done, and even still do. salvation is not just a whim, justice says according to God, sinners must surely die, there will be no pity ect. Jesus took that sentance for you for everything youve done wrong.

you may not think the worst things you have done are worthy of death, but according to the Law, all of us are guilty and under the curse of death because of our own sins, our own actions that come from our corrupt hearts. Jesus for one aspect came to truly save us from the fate we sealed with our sin, because well, were sinners its who we are, imperfect.

we cant interpret the bible through our own minds and will, we will always leave the complete message out, you see John says not to sin, BUT if anyone does we still have an advocate that lives and is in Gods presence. this truth does not mean " were free to sin, or that sin doesnt affect us, it doesnt disregard our requirement to repent of that sin, it does not at all disregard the next verses that says this either

hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."


both things are true, and are meant to make a more complete understanding, if i refuse to acceot that if i do haopoen to sin, while im giving all to walk right before my God, then i have an advocate with Him that died because im worth saving to him, i understand that he will forgive me still, i still have to walk in His word though boith aspects are true. one doesnt refute the other, its a single statement.


for you to somehow want to Know whether someone else still sins, how does that change what is written in the Bible?

if a sinner says " we have to repent and obey God" its still as true as when Jesus Christ said it. in a bdf it should at least carry some form of value and wieght, what the Bible says.......at least, thats my cooky way of thinking. whether i need to stop sinning or not lol should never have evvvver been a question, to christians that are bought at a price and Belong to Jesus who is our Lord, King, commander, shepherd whom we follow. our light, our way, our truth.......He probably has the answers with all the bible says He is you would think.

nobody is without sin, this doesnt translate to " sin doesnt affect you, or because of grace, now sin doesnt apply to reality or even when i sin....i really havent sinned because im Gods righteusness.....


truthfully Jesus will forgive abundantly HIS DISCIPLES, those who seek God, the way He taught us to, forgive others, be forgiven, repent, be forgiven, show mercy to others, receive mercy all of this in light of what we all know Jesus did for us, its confusing when the scriptures are interpreted to exclude, the next lines that explain its context and purpose. we should really all learn what the bible says about everything and then form our immovable beliefs, leads to alot of disagreement, but the Bible, is perfectly ordered and never contradicts itself, if a person follows along beginning with Jesus and His Gospel, if this brother or you or anyonbe has sinned recently, they need only turn to God, forgive anyone they may be bearing grudges against, ans ask God as again Jesus taught us to do when He taught us to pray " forgive us our trespasses AS WE forgive those who trespass against us.


this is not a teaching for the dead man, but for the born again man, like moses did, Jesus spoke the whole Law ofthe spirit of life, then He shed His blood of the covenant to enjoin the covenant to us. hebrews 9:15-23, all of us can rest assured when we wonder whats the covenant? How do we know what to believe???? we need only go to the Lord Jesus, Learn what He actually said, and believe Him and also as paul amd all the other apostles taught of course the reason we first believe is because He died and rose. we dont exlude Hius word based on His death, or His death and His ongoing mercy and advocacy for us even now based on His teachings. we take all of Jesus or none of Him is the truth.

 

[Ralph-]

Ralph, you've admitted you still sin. According to you, that proves you don't know Christ.

Are you living the life in the passages I cited? I'm not. I sin, but I am not living in a pattern of unrepentant, unchanging sin. Are you?

Does me putting a band aid on a cut make me a practicing physician? Of course not, even though I sometimes do what a physician does. So it is with sin. It is only the practicing sinner who is not saved and will not inherit the kingdom of God. Which are you? The practicing sinner, or the saint who still sins in moments of weakness?

Those who practice sin as a way of life are not born again. They will not inherit the kingdom. They show by their life they are not saved.

 

[slave]

I haven't visited this thread for awhile, it seems people aren't learning from His Word in the (two-or-more) Scripture context approach seeking His face; but rather they are subjugating their personal views using Scripture as a lawyer-based pleading platform remaining self-aware. We must first be humble to God and listen patiently, but we must also do this with the Holy Spirit leading us - first intuitively, and then by our will also employing our intellectual godly prowess therein living a righteous life. The fact that Christ has victory over sin and death is too often not taken seriously or literally. This victory gives all who are "in Christ" the same victory over sin today - right now! Christ's work on the cross means we are no longer “slaves to sin” and can say no to sin today while we are still living. The victory is supposed to happen now - not some time in the future when we die. The work of Christ is sufficient to justify us and to completely sanctify us; giving us true victory so we stop sinning. Am I seeking to stop sinning or have I actually stopped? To be born of God means that I have His supernatural power to stop sinning. The Bible never asks, "Should a Christian sin?" The Bible emphatically states that a Christian must not sin. This in no way sets aside God's grace and mercy as He grows us up; but be sure, He will grow us up! It is then we will make decisions remaining in Him or not as He finishes His workmanship in us.

“If anyone is in Christ he is a New Creation. The old is gone and the new has come” – (2 Cor. 5:17). Are you a sinner or a saint? I was once a sinner before Christ, but now that I am in Christ I am a saint. I was a sinner saved (justified) by grace. Now I am a saint that is being sanctified by that same “grace that brings salvation and has appeared to all men. It teaches me to say no to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live a self-controlled, upright and godly life in this present age (today)”. – (Titus 2:11).

The question isn't do I sin, it is to whom am I owned by Spiritually? God, thru Christ Jesus, or Satan thru not making the choice to live according to my belief in God's gift of Jesus Christ on a Cross, now resurrected sitting at the right hand of the Father ruling over all things on earth and in Heaven? If I am owned by God thru Jesus Christ; if Jesus Christ is my life, then who can stop His will from being done on earth as it is in Heaven? What can stop us from putting to death the things of the flesh? NOTHING! It is about His will, not our Salvation alone.

That is amazing grace which changes me both today and for eternity. That is what Christ completed on the Cross.

 

[stonesoffire]

Yaaqob/James says:

James 2:19-20, "You believe that YHWH is one. (Deu 6:4) You do well. The demons also believe – and shudder! But do you wish to know, O foolish man, that the belief without the works is dead?"



Both times the word “believe” is used it is word #4100 - pisteuó: to believe, entrust, Original Word: πιστεύω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: pisteuó, Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o), Short Definition: I believe, have faith in, Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with

Ive not seen you here before, so you are new to me.

I love it when Holy Spirit tells me truth. He said that faith is substance (actuality) in heavenly realms. When Father sees it, He is drawn to it to act. Now whether you accept this or not matters not to me. I've learned that Satan hates truth and will attack it every which way possible.

Is there such a thing as negative faith? I would think that to know God is, to know His power and then to scorn it? Would draw wrath.

If one does not understand the difference, which dcontroversal does, then truth gets twisted in the mind.

Do you really think that demons entrust their salvation to God? Did you leave that out?

 

[Rosemaryx]

Key: 'ongoing'. The person who has decided that grace is given so he can live in his sin and doesn't have to change is showing they are not justified and set apart in Christ at all.

Everyone who claims that you do not have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back because salvation is not by works is saying grace makes it so you do not have to change but you will still be saved. They don't know that grace was given to you TO change. And that's why change of life is the evidence of whether or not you have the grace of God in salvation or not. They think grace makes it so you can arrive at the judgement with no works, no change of life and you will still be saved, just as long as you believe.

Hi Ralph...Those who are truly born again have the Holy Spirit of God, who does His Will in us...I have said on a previous post that some can say the sinners prayer and think that is all they do, but these people who you seemed to talk about are not really saved...

Those who are truly saved will have such tremendous changes in them because they have the Holy Spirit, I can testify this because I among everyone here who know that they are saved by grace through faith, less any one should boast...

We all know that works follow, who has said they do not ?...If we have the Holy Spirit, then we live in the Holy Spirit, and our life remains in the Holy Spirit...Those who do not have the Holy Spirit were never really born again, I think your post is addressed to those, or to the workers who feel they have to earn their way when Jesus has done it all...IT IS FINISHED...

Works follow after we are born again, no one is denying this, we are being transformed, not by our own doing, but by God`s Amazing Grace...But works have nothing to do with being saved, Jesus is a gift from God, not someone who God lent to us, He is ours forever more, and we are His, in His palm, secure...xox...

 

[Ralph-]

Please read at least the last half hour of this thread. I'm simply using Ralph's statements against him.

I've explained myself. You are trying to avoid the difference between living in sin and still sinning. That's what one must do to justify staying in their old lives and thinking they are born again and safe and will be saved when Jesus comes back.

Are you living the life in the passages I cited, budman? If you are you may well not be born again and if you are still doing that when Jesus comes back you will not inherit the kingdom. That's what those passage say. People who live in and practice sin will NOT inherit the kingdom no matter how many praises and boasts of God's grace and your belief in it that you make.

 

[stillness]

Good morning, opened the bible to "whoever has this Hope in Him purifies himself even as He is pure."
This clears up who is being saved, "Christ in you the Hope of Resurrection."
Not that we can judge others as we go through many ups and down before entering into rest.
We also see that it's not of works as its having" This Hope in Him."