Not By Works

[stonesoffire]

It's okay. There have been more lurkers in this thread than I have ever seen before. The truth will find fertile ground among them and come to fruition. The seeds have already been planted. Some of them will come to realize that they must have works when Jesus comes back or they will only be showing that they were never saved to begin with. They will repent and believe and be saved.

What harvest do you people expect from telling people how they live does not matter toward if they are saved or not and does not show either way if they are really saved or not, and because of that they do not repent and truly believe?

You totally misrepresent what is said over and over.

 

[stonesoffire]

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View attachment 177549

Yum! I'll have one of each.

 

[stonesoffire]

You show that you have the circumcision done by unseen hands and are saved by how you live. The person who is still living in his old life of uncircumcised lawless disobedience is not saved and will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus returns. You should not find this offensive since this is exactly what old school Calvinist once saved always saved doctrine teaches. Did you know this?

If you say you believe that doctrine then you should be coming down on everyone in this thread who is saying it doesn't matter how you live after believing because it can't change what is already set in place. They don't realize that how they live shows if salvation was really set in place to begin with.

So what are you? The old once saved always saved, or the new once saved always saved which says you can live any way you want to after believing and it doesn't matter to your salvation (which we are prohibited from discussing).

not calvinist or any other ist. You may call me Pentecostal or charismatic, but in truth I'm just His.

Im in EG.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

? Are you really asking for this?

Yes, he will continue as long as we interact. As long as he knows he can get us to react, he will not stop. Time to put a stop to it. He has proven he has no desire to discus. So why bother?

If you wish to interact with him, feel free. But what will it really accomplish?

 

[UnderGrace]

BTW, it is not all about Calvin and many of us have a different views

Find out for yourself, I am a researcher, that is what I do
You will have lots to read.

But then that is not what you are really after is it?

Simple question. Did Calvin teach that people who don't endure to the end were never saved to begin with, and those who do are really saved and can not fall away?

If he did how can you people who defend his eternal security doctrine say you do not have to have works and can be disobedient and you will still be saved when Jesus comes back? Pretty simple question. No one seems to be able to explain how they believe Calvin and contradict him at the same time.

 

[stonesoffire]

Yes, he will continue as long as we interact. As long as he knows he can get us to react, he will not stop. Time to put a stop to it. He has proven he has no desire to discus. So why bother?

If you wish to interact with him, feel free. But what will it really accomplish?

you have three.

 

[UnderGrace]

je suis fini...Canadian for done

you have three.

 

[Ralph-]

You totally misrepresent what is said over and over.

No, I understand what you people have been saying and I'm sure I've been representing it correctly. You want to keep the eternal security part of Calvinism but discard the part about the life that proves you have it. That is what you people have been saying. That's not Calvinism. That's the new doctrine of eternal security consuming the church to it's destruction. The final destruction of the church from which we will not recover. Either admit you have departed from classical Calvinist teaching and embraced this new abhorrent eternal security teaching or come back to your Calvinist roots.

What I don't get is why ardent Calvinists, even partial Calvinists aren't defending their doctrinal beliefs. Mailmandan may be the only one who has been. And he's not even a preacher.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

BTW, it is not all about Calvin and many of us have a different views

Find out for yourself, I am a researcher, that is what I do
You will have lots to read.

But then that is not what you are really after is it?

It is obvious he has no idea what calvin taught, Yet he tries to tell calvanist they do not know what he taught. It is crazy! He lost his chance by not doing what people said he should do and stop that line of reasoning, which was not true, he kept pushing, it is on him.

 

[Ralph-]

not calvinist or any other ist. You may call me Pentecostal or charismatic, but in truth I'm just His.

Im in EG.

The teaching that you can not lose your salvation is a Calvinist teaching. But more importantly, the teaching that you have to endure to the very end and not be living in lawlessness, or else you aren't really saved, is a Calvinist teaching. That is the part I can't get any of you to discuss.

 

[Ralph-]

It is obvious he has no idea what calvin taught, Yet he tries to tell calvanist they do not know what he taught. It is crazy! He lost his chance by not doing what people said he should do and stop that line of reasoning, which was not true, he kept pushing, it is on him.

And it is obvious that you realize how contradictory your beliefs are and can't explain them away. That's why you won't discuss it with me. Pretty obvious.

 

[Ralph-]

BTW, it is not all about Calvin and many of us have a different views

Find out for yourself, I am a researcher, that is what I do
You will have lots to read.

But then that is not what you are really after is it?

Just set me straight. Did Calvin teach that if you are not living the life then you are not even saved to begin with? Pretty simple question. But no one wants to touch it. Not even the avowed Calvinists here. Too convicting isn't it? Yet these same people want to believe and stress and beat you over the head with and make sure you know without a doubt the 'you can't lose your salvation' part of his teaching. Interesting how that works.


Conviction should lead you to Christ, people, not to attacking me.

 

[dcontroversal]

You don't know what Calvinists teach, you just make up what you want them to teach. You've also made up what I teach by saying I've said and taught things I don't believe. Very difficult to have respect for you, or even believe your preaching a transformed life is really believed by you since you lie about others on here often. Just being honest.

Nevertheless Dcon preached they still had works thus your proof has come up short.

Exactly.....he us just another deceptive worker for with zero honesty twisting or denying what is said.....end of story

 

[dcontroversal]

You need to take the time to read over this thread. DC has always said works will accompany but faith alone in Christ is what saves.. You are splitting hairs.

Amen.....one of a few who post truth without their own pretzel twist.

 

[stillness]

Simple question. Did Calvin teach that people who don't endure to the end were never saved to begin with, and those who do are really saved and can not fall away?

If he did how can you people who defend his eternal security doctrine say you do not have to have works and can be disobedient and you will still be saved when Jesus comes back? Pretty simple question. No one seems to be able to explain how they believe Calvin and contradict him at the same time.

"Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his Lord has made ruler over His household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed that servant, whom his Lord when He cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That He shall make him ruler over all His goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My Lord delayed his coming; And shall begin to smite fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looked not for, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him off, and appoint his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This was a servant of the Lord who will not be part of the first resurrection, to rule with Christ for a thousand years. "The rest of the dead are not raised until the thousand years are over. Paul referred to some who will be saved as through fire but will lose their reward.
About the portion with the hypocrites, Jesus said that the prostitutes and sinners enter the kingdom before the self righteous.
Some saved in the final judgment, otherwise who are the nations of the saved that the bride rules over.
Salvation is definitely greater than we think, unfortunately we stop short on our search, rather than learning from different views, get set in our ways: Doesn't take much to amuse small minds. That being the case how does God amuse himself?
Creates people with small minds. We were created for his pleasure, but we were not meant to have small minds its a consequence of the fall. The mind of the flesh was not meant to rule us, the fruit is living for ourselves and unable to comprehend spiritual things. "If any man thinks he knows, he does not know as he should." If we thing we know we stop learning.

 

[dcontroversal]

And you haven't comprehended a word I've said.

You believe once saved always saved doctrine, right? Did you know that once saved always saved teaches that you have to have works when Jesus comes back or you were never saved to begin with? You don't seem to realize that you have been contradicting your own claim to believe once saved always saved doctrine. If you believed once saved always saved doctrine then you'd agree that you have to have works when Jesus comes back or you are not really saved to begin with.

Read line 1 to yourself about 100 times....this is your modus operandi.....or simply twist what is said.......

 

[dcontroversal]

His alleged contradiction doesn't exist in OSAS, so his argument is pointless. It's insane to keep going over this fact.

Amen.....like the dude in John Wick.....Nothing....he has proven nothing... ..

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:17, "So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:14, “My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:11-15, “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood.”[/FONT]

 

[joefizz]

Then you are freegrace once saved always saved, not Calvinist once saved always saved.

Calvin said the person who doesn't live the life after being saved, and living it to the end, was not really saved to begin with. Did you know this? But it is the doctrine that is forbidden to be discussed here that says what you say above. So we can't delve into that matter and hash it out. You'll have to examine it on your own elsewhere. There are forums where you can discuss it.

Actually...
I always talk about being saved by grace on my side of the tracks in this thread,and just like dcontroversal I hash out plenty,and it's always invigorating!

 

[dcontroversal]

James never says fake faith, you are adding to the text.

His best work...add to scripture and or flat deny context or verbiage to push his cafe blend false gospel....Believing in God and having faith into the work of Christ are two entirely different things....