Not By Works
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R
Then you are freegrace once saved always saved, not Calvinist once saved always saved.
Calvin said the person who doesn't live the life after being saved, and living it to the end, was not really saved to begin with. Did you know this? But it is the doctrine that is forbidden to be discussed here that says what you say above. So we can't delve into that matter and hash it out. You'll have to examine it on your own elsewhere. There are forums where you can discuss it.
Calvin said the person who doesn't live the life after being saved, and living it to the end, was not really saved to begin with. Did you know this? But it is the doctrine that is forbidden to be discussed here that says what you say above. So we can't delve into that matter and hash it out. You'll have to examine it on your own elsewhere. There are forums where you can discuss it.
Yes, many trees of faith.
I imagine the 9 fruits of the spirit descibing the nourishment given in increase.
Like the blessings our Lord spoke to the crowd nourishing the roots.
The nine fruits manifest in all that have come to call our Lord blessed.
So as the new shoots we are gathered to be grafted into the greater branches.
I imagine the 9 fruits of the spirit descibing the nourishment given in increase.
Like the blessings our Lord spoke to the crowd nourishing the roots.
The nine fruits manifest in all that have come to call our Lord blessed.
So as the new shoots we are gathered to be grafted into the greater branches.
E
You do not get it, all you want to do is argue, then you say people say things they have never said.
I will say it one more time for you, If you do not understandaftyer this, Then ask me to explain, otherwise, there is NOTHING anyone can do to help you/.
1. We are saved BY FAITH, not works. Once a person has been deemed by God to have called out to him to be saved, and he KNOWS they have living faith (as apposed to a dead faith which will save no one), at that point THEY ARE SAVED.
2. At that point, they have not done ANY WORK, no work was required (this is why I and everyone like me says works are not required)
3. Once a person has trusted God for SALVATION and thus are saved, They will LEARN to trust him in other areas of their lives, and start to change their thinking BECAUSE of their faith. This will PRODUCE WORKS.
4. The works are NOT to get saved, KEEP salvation, or MAITNIAN salvation, nor are they PROOF someone is saved. (God does not need proof, HE KNOWS if our faith was real or not) THEY ARE a BYPRODUCT of TRUE FAITH.
if you can not comprehend this, say so
if you disagree with this, SAY SO
BUT STOP putting words in our mouths, or it will be recommended everyone stop responding to you, Because you can not be reasoned with if you continue to slander others because you FAIL to understand what they believe.
When you say "freegrace" you make it sound like, free healthcare, or free college education. When in fact someone actually has to pay the price for all of that.
Grace is not free. Salvation is. Grace is the character of our God that gave us the free gift of salvation.
His graciousness was extended to us at a very large price. So when you equate the Grace of our Lord with the works of man, you have cheapened His grace, and seem to mock His sacrifice.
Grace is not free. Salvation is. Grace is the character of our God that gave us the free gift of salvation.
His graciousness was extended to us at a very large price. So when you equate the Grace of our Lord with the works of man, you have cheapened His grace, and seem to mock His sacrifice.
I meant, do you have to pray the sinner's prayer, or can you use your own words?
R
Oh, bummer. You just departed from the Calvinist once saved always saved teachings you say you believe.
That's right God does not need proof of your faith. YOU DO. So you can know that you are really saved and prepared for when Jesus comes back. This is called 'making your calling and election sure'-2 Peter 1:10, Hebrews 6:11. We are told to do that-obey so we can know we're really saved-so we can be assured that we have the faith that rescues us from the coming wrath and will go into the kingdom, not into the furnace when Christ returns.
I agree. And since that is true that makes them required to be saved when Jesus comes back, or else you are not a true believer. You don't seem to realize that's right out of Calvin's once saved always saved teachings, the one's you say you believe, but which you contradict when you say works are not required to be saved when Jesus comes back because salvation is not by works.
You have no choice but to agree with me that works are required to be saved, because you are not a real believer if you do not have works. This is right out of the Calvin playbook you say you believe but which you contradict by saying works do not matter toward being saved when Jesus comes back.
That's right God does not need proof of your faith. YOU DO. So you can know that you are really saved and prepared for when Jesus comes back. This is called 'making your calling and election sure'-2 Peter 1:10, Hebrews 6:11. We are told to do that-obey so we can know we're really saved-so we can be assured that we have the faith that rescues us from the coming wrath and will go into the kingdom, not into the furnace when Christ returns.
I agree. And since that is true that makes them required to be saved when Jesus comes back, or else you are not a true believer. You don't seem to realize that's right out of Calvin's once saved always saved teachings, the one's you say you believe, but which you contradict when you say works are not required to be saved when Jesus comes back because salvation is not by works.
You have no choice but to agree with me that works are required to be saved, because you are not a real believer if you do not have works. This is right out of the Calvin playbook you say you believe but which you contradict by saying works do not matter toward being saved when Jesus comes back.
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Hi Preacher, behind every critic of "The Security of the Believer", a doctrine of the church, is someone like "Ralph" who throws out OSAS into the debate, which is not a doctrine of the church. OSAS is a straw man put into the arena of debate hoping to show people that they can, "Lose their salvation", without having gained merit to keep yourself saved.
Everything they say against the "security of the believer" is leading up to, see, without your works you can, "lose your salvation." It would be like me saying, look here come those, YCLY's (you can lose your salvation). OSAS is a false, flawed argument because; there is no doctrine of the church called OSAS but there is a doctrine of the the church called, "The Security of the Believer."
Point: False teachers say, without works their is no, "Security of the Believer", and, "OSAS" is a big fat lie to support their false doctrine from hell. The Church of Jesus Christ will defend "The Security of the Believer." for eternity.
Everything they say against the "security of the believer" is leading up to, see, without your works you can, "lose your salvation." It would be like me saying, look here come those, YCLY's (you can lose your salvation). OSAS is a false, flawed argument because; there is no doctrine of the church called OSAS but there is a doctrine of the the church called, "The Security of the Believer."
Point: False teachers say, without works their is no, "Security of the Believer", and, "OSAS" is a big fat lie to support their false doctrine from hell. The Church of Jesus Christ will defend "The Security of the Believer." for eternity.
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E
I am done, You took it back to calvanism again, When I told you I do not believe in calvanism, not to mention, YTou ignored my post. And did not even acknowledge it, you picked it apart and took it like you always do to places which had NOTHING to do with what I said,.
you have no desire to discuss you just want to argue. Consider yourself on ignore.
I pray everyone places you on ignore so we can stop with this nonsense,
R
Just so you know, I believe in the security of every person who believes.
And it is not me who is bringing up once saved always saved in this thread. I have said it does not matter if you are never able to lose salvation if you don't even have it in the first place as proven by your unchanged, lawless, disobedient life.
What does it matter if the person who has no change of life at the coming of Jesus lost his salvation or never had it to begin with? The point is he is lost either way. Once saved always saved is a distraction to this truth that even Calvinists have to acknowledge because they are the very ones who hold and defend the doctrine that says that if you are disobedient you were never saved to begin with. Are you going to tell me Calvinists don't believe that?
Don't tell me. Tell everyone in this thread who has been using it to insist you do not have to have works when Jesus comes back to be saved and not thrown into the furnace. The last one to say it was JoeF. He said it mattered not how you lived after you are saved. It does not change anything. You and preacher being the Calvinists that you are should have been all over that and told him the person who lives any way he wants after being saved isn't really saved to begin with. I agree. So why are you attacking me and not him???????
And it is not me who is bringing up once saved always saved in this thread. I have said it does not matter if you are never able to lose salvation if you don't even have it in the first place as proven by your unchanged, lawless, disobedient life.
What does it matter if the person who has no change of life at the coming of Jesus lost his salvation or never had it to begin with? The point is he is lost either way. Once saved always saved is a distraction to this truth that even Calvinists have to acknowledge because they are the very ones who hold and defend the doctrine that says that if you are disobedient you were never saved to begin with. Are you going to tell me Calvinists don't believe that?
Don't tell me. Tell everyone in this thread who has been using it to insist you do not have to have works when Jesus comes back to be saved and not thrown into the furnace. The last one to say it was JoeF. He said it mattered not how you lived after you are saved. It does not change anything. You and preacher being the Calvinists that you are should have been all over that and told him the person who lives any way he wants after being saved isn't really saved to begin with. I agree. So why are you attacking me and not him???????
R
Call it the Bugs Bunny doctrine of once saved always saved if you like. The point is you say you believe it but you contradict it when you say you do not have to have works when Jesus comes back to be saved. You don't seem to know that once saved always saved teaches that you HAVE to have works when Jesus comes back or you were never really saved to begin with. But I see you can't bring yourself to face your own contradiction of beliefs and can't go toe to toe with me about this. Fine, so be it.
R
And you haven't comprehended a word I've said.
You believe once saved always saved doctrine, right? Did you know that once saved always saved teaches that you have to have works when Jesus comes back or you were never saved to begin with? You don't seem to realize that you have been contradicting your own claim to believe once saved always saved doctrine. If you believed once saved always saved doctrine then you'd agree that you have to have works when Jesus comes back or you are not really saved to begin with.
You believe once saved always saved doctrine, right? Did you know that once saved always saved teaches that you have to have works when Jesus comes back or you were never saved to begin with? You don't seem to realize that you have been contradicting your own claim to believe once saved always saved doctrine. If you believed once saved always saved doctrine then you'd agree that you have to have works when Jesus comes back or you are not really saved to begin with.