Not By Works

[UnderGrace]

Just don't shoot your eye out!!

Thank you. I'll check it out.

And yes you can call me Ralphie. I like that.

 

[Ralph-]

I think you might be missing the distinction between 'law-less' & 'lawlessness' there.

Oh yeah I forgot. In the church, lawless means I'm not under the law anymore which means I do not have to do the law anymore.

So there is no misunderstanding I am saying I do not 'live in' a life of violation of the law. I violate it and the blood of Christ is quick to forgive the offense but I definitely do not live a life of lawlessness like before I was saved. If I did I would be showing myself to be an unbeliever.

BTW Who is this 'Calvin' when he's at home?
I've heard OF him but I couldn't tell you anything about him.
Does he have something to do with men's underpants?

No has nothing to do with underwear. But don't worry it doesn't matter anymore. Calvinism is on the outs and is being replaced by the doctrine that we are not allowed to discuss. Don't bother learning about a doctrine that more and more people are departing from. You should do homework on this new strain of once saved always saved called freegrace. But we can not discuss that here.

 

[Zi]

You need to take the time to read over this thread. DC has always said works will accompany but faith alone in Christ is what saves.. You are splitting hairs.

So you won't acknowledge that dcontroversial was saying you do not have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back, believing is enough. So be it.

The least you can do is start explaining why works don't matter to salvation but you claim to be a Calvinist. Calvin says they do matter because if you don't have them and persevere in them to the very end you were never a true believer to begin with. And we know that unbelievers will not be saved when Jesus comes back. How do you explain these contradictory beliefs in this thread? People who defend Calvin's once saved always saved teaching but then contradict it by saying you don't have to have works to be saved? You're up, Charlie.

 

[Ralph-]

Just don't shoot your eye out!!

too late. Did that on Christmas morning.

 

[Ralph-]

You need to take the time to read over this thread. DC has always said works will accompany but faith alone in Christ is what saves.. You are splitting hairs.

What you are seeing is that he tries to argue both ends of the argument. I showed where he argued with me that the only work you have to have is that you believe. He used four Biblical examples, incorrectly, by the way as I showed him, to assert that stance. Don't gaslight me people. His posts about not needing works were plain and to the point.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

What you are seeing is that he tries to argue both ends of the argument. I showed where he argued with me that the only work you have to have is that you believe. He used four Biblical examples, incorrectly, by the way as I showed him, to assert that stance. Don't gaslight me people. His posts about not needing works were plain and to the point.

you sure love to point your finger around....

im not sure if ive ever seen an honest post from you


twisting words

making straw men and accusations seem to be your specialty

 

[Zi]

If you take the whole of DC and what he says you'd come to the truth of what he believes.

What you are seeing is that he tries to argue both ends of the argument. I showed where he argued with me that the only work you have to have is that you believe. He used four Biblical examples, incorrectly, by the way as I showed him, to assert that stance. Don't gaslight me people. His posts about not needing works were plain and to the point.

 

[joefizz]

(Joefizz cruising on through here)»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»_If you are not redeemed in the tribulation period then you can only be saved through Jesus by his grace,by accepting him as saviour and who died for your sins,anything done afterward changes nothing.(Joefizz speeds on outta here,Yee haw)»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

No has nothing to do with underwear. But don't worry it doesn't matter anymore. Calvinism is on the outs and is being replaced by the doctrine that we are not allowed to discuss. Don't bother learning about a doctrine that more and more people are departing from. You should do homework on this new strain of once saved always saved called freegrace. But we can not discuss that here.

I'd prefer not to be blown about by every wind of doctrine.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am legally sinless because of Christ's righteousness deposited in my account. I am beyond the condemnation of the law because of Christ's blood that I believe in. And not only that I do not 'live in' a lawless life. If I lived in a lawless life I'd be an unbeliever. I'd be lost when Christ returns. Turns out I'm not doing that. Not gonna be lost for that reason. I'm not doing that.

Dude, You are lawless according to the law.According to the law, you live a lawless life. Whether you like it or not!

If your saved, Your right, You are legally sinless (the term is called justification) But then again, So is every saved person who is born again, justified FREELY by the grace of God!

You also can not claim that you are legally sinless because of christ, then you can be disqualified by living a lawless life. It cancels out the fact you are legally lawless by grace.

I'm not either, but you people who believe in Calvin's once saved always saved argument have to stop defending people who say your works don't matter on the day Christ comes back. They matter because according to Calvin saved people don't fall and have the life to prove the genuineness of their salvation.

Eternal life is not a calvin, you need to stop this crap. If you do not stop this nonsense, I will stop any discussion, because you will be blinded by anything that is said.

And it's not being without works and still being saved on the day Christ comes back, now is it? It's not if you're going to stay true to your Calvy once saved always belief.

Your the only one in CC saying anything about a person who was once saved being without works.Again, Thgis is nonsense, and if you continue, it will end.

A person of faith will have works. Period.

My suspicions are confirmed. You just don't know what f-grace teaches. You do not realize that it's completely contradictory to Calvin's once saved always saved teaching, except for the you can't lose your salvation part of course. You'll have to confirm that on your own because we can not discuss it here.

No, Your the one who does not know what they teach.

get over yourself. Your stuck on works and calvanism., until you get off those topic and open your eyes, you will never understand anything else.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is what matters here, eternally-gratefull. Stay focused.

Explain yourself and why it is that you and others are saying works have nothing to do with you being saved on the day Christ comes back when CAlvin says they do.

Stay focused, and get off calvin ok?

I am not calvanist, that is your first mistake.

A person is saved by faith, PERIOD.

A person who has faith SWILL WORK PERIOD

there is no such thing as faith apart from works PERIOD

What matters is FAITH, NOT WORKS.

A person will be saved when christ returns BECAUSE THEY HAD FAITH, NOT BECAUSE THEY HAD WORK, PERIOD.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I appreciate you so I’ll respond to your claim about me.

My post was about the priority of being lead by God and knowing Him. Not diminishing education or learned men, but they and their opinions are not the Author of our gospel or our Scripture. God is. I’m fine if you don’t like my opinions, I’m not your teacher, God is. At the end of our lives He is who we are held accountable to. And He is with us right now. And that is important to me and for the gospel for people to realize He is our Teacher.

I’ve read plenty of your posts, I’ve seen your arguments, and you have an excellent way of writing Scripture truths out. So I appreciate that about you. But I do not agree we have arrived and are truly living out a transformed life in Christ. Paul said some argue about him and others about Apollos is that not being carnal? When we stress theology and learning what other men teach over relationship with the Spirit of God Himself is that not carnal? When we do not love one another or encourage one another focusing on our arguments, divisions, and putting labels on people is that not carnal? I have not yet arrived, but I do see there is a lot more for US to press in for. And that happens through letting Him be our Teacher because He transforms us. You can see my words as an attack against learned men, but they are not my intention. I did not mock them as you have claimed. I said if they do not know God they will not be transformed. Just as I believe about all men. Myself included. I prioritize knowing Him over any other thing. Scripture tells us even eternal life is simply knowing Him. And is what I believe and what I stress.

Paul said he continued to run the race. If he had not made it yet. I would be foolish to think I have arrived.

 

[preacher4truth]

Calvinism is on the outs and is being replaced by the doctrine that we are not allowed to discuss. Don't bother learning about a doctrine that more and more people are departing from. You should do homework on this new strain of once saved always saved called freegrace. But we can not discuss that here.

The above nonsense is a total fabrication. Lol! You really need to learn to tell the truth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not at war with CAlvin. He says works matter. I agree with that. You people say they don't, but you claim to believe in the once saved always saved part of his teaching. That teaching says your works do matter because if you don't have works up to the day Jesus returns you are not a genuine believer and never were.

1. There are calvanists here, The say that works do not matter, I think they know better than you.
2. I believe in eternal security, I never heard of once saved always saved until I came to CC.. I did not know it was a calvanist theology. So again, Get off your calvanist rant,
3. Can you show me where calvin says that if you do not have works until jesus returns your not a genuin believer, I would love to see it. Your the only one in my entire life I have ever heard say this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The above nonsense is a total fabrication. Lol! You really need to learn to tell the truth.

yet he claims to not be at war with calvanism..lol

 

[preacher4truth]

My post was about the priority of being lead by God and knowing Him. Not diminishing education or learned men

You can't even own your diatribe and belittling of men of God, even going as far as to suggest they aren't transformed. Please own up to your insults.

I’ve read plenty of your posts, I’ve seen your arguments, and you have an excellent way of writing Scripture truths out. So I appreciate that about you.

Thanks but I don't appreciate flattery especially when you won't own your attack on others.

But I do not agree we have arrived and are truly living out a transformed life in Christ.[

I've made no such claim so there is nothing about it for you to disagree with. Not sure why you're making it appear I have by saying "you do not agree." Try using facts and honest dialog instead of making things appear in your favor at the expense of others.

Paul said some argue about him and others about Apollos is that not being carnal? When we stress theology and learning what other men teach over relationship with the Spirit of God Himself is that not carnal? When we do not love one another or encourage one another focusing on our arguments, divisions, and putting labels on people is that not carnal? I have not yet arrived, but I do see there is a lot more for US to press in for. And that happens through letting Him be our Teacher because He transforms us. You can see my words as an attack against learned men, but they are not my intention. I did not mock them as you have claimed. I said if they do not know God they will not be transformed. Just as I believe about all men. Myself included. I prioritize knowing Him over any other thing. Scripture tells us even eternal life is simply knowing Him. And is what I believe and what I stress.

You're being disingenuous. You labeled learned men in derogation, alluded to them not being transformed, and now you're denying your actions. You have no substantiation showing anyone has placed learning over relationship. It's just another of your ways to paint others with false accusations that aren't proven. It's just that way because you say so.

You really need to end your derogatory comments and general accusations on others. They're unproven, you offer zero evidence to back it up. It's unChristian. Put an end to it, it serves no purpose but to make you look better. That's what false accusations and gossip are intended to do. Why not just apologize for your unfounded diatribe?

 

[Ralph-]

Dude, You are lawless according to the law.According to the law, you live a lawless life. Whether you like it or not!

No, I do not 'live in' lawlessness-Galatians 5:21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Ephesians 5:5. You can say you do if you like, but I do not. Don't speak for me. You don't seem to realize that the the passages I cite say the people who live in lawlessness will not inherit the kingdom of God. But if you want to say you are doing that, so be it. Just don't try to include me in that with you because I'm not living like that. People who are doing that are not going to inherit the kingdom. The Bible says so.

You also can not claim that you are legally sinless because of christ, then you can be disqualified by living a lawless life. It cancels out the fact you are legally lawless by grace.

That's what I'm saying. That's what Calvin says. The lawless person can not claim to be justified. His lawless life shows that he's not justified in Christ. If he was he'd not be lawless. If he is lawless (see passages cited above) he is canceling out any boast, any claim to be genuinely saved and on his way to the kingdom. Paul said he is NOT justified and going to the kingdom if he lives like that. Do you want to argue this point with Paul? This is just basic Calvin once saved always saved teaching anyway. You say you believe that teaching. Yet you argue this point.

Eternal life is not a calvin...

Once saved always saved is Calvin's doctrine. He's the one who planted it in the church. I think Augustine tried to do that but failed centuries before him but failed. The church rejected that doctrine.

Stay focused here, Pokey. You and others say you believe in once saved always saved, a doctrine of Calvin, but which also says works matter because if you don't have them, and have them to the very end, you are not saved. So when you say your works don't matter to salvation you are contradicting your own Calvin once saved always saved beliefs. Calvinist once always saved people don't seem to realize they're doing this. I'm just pointing it out. If you want to stay true to your ardent Calvinist once saved always saved beliefs then you have to say that works do matter for salvation because saved people have works and never fall away as the proof that they are genuine saved believers. Calvin said so. And you claim you agree with Calvin about once saved always saved.

A person of faith will have works. Period.

You say this but then you'll argue fiercely that works are not required to be saved. But if works are not required to be saved when Jesus comes back that means you're an unbeliever and you won't be saved. So how do you reconcile this contradiction of beliefs of yours?

If you can't answer and you need to just end the discussion without defending yourself, fine. But let it be known you have contradictory beliefs and you were unable to explain them. So be it. I think because you are a teacher of the gospel you owe it to us to explain your contradiction.

 

[preacher4truth]

Once saved always saved is Calvin's doctrine. He's the one who planted it in the church. I think Augustine tried to do that but failed centuries before him but failed. The church rejected that doctrine.

The above is absolutely false, fabricated nonsense. The church did not reject this at all. In fact the church embraced, of all books, Hebrews as proof for what you call OSAS because it does exactly that.

You have no clue what you're talking about and just make things up and attemp to rewrite the narrative however you want. The thing is others here are smarter than you think and know this.

 

[Ralph-]

I'd prefer not to be blown about by every wind of doctrine.

You should become educated about it so you are not deceived by it and can yourself persevere to the very end and be saved. In my opinion it's the last great flood of deceitfulness that leads the church astray before the coming of Christ. We will not recover from this. It's the final undoing of the church here on earth. We just need to make sure we're not on the ship when it goes down. And we should warn others so they aren't on it either when it goes down.

 

[Ralph-]

The above is absolutely false, fabricated nonsense. The church did not reject this at all. In fact the church embraced, of all books, Hebrews as proof for what you call OSAS because it does exactly that.

You have no clue what you're talking about and just make things up and attemp to rewrite the narrative however you want. The thing is others here are smarter than you think and know this.

You're missing the point.

It's not whether or not once saved always saved is true. It's about you who do believe it's true acknowledging that it also says that if you do not persevere to the very end you were never saved to begin with. That means you have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back or you were never saved to begin with and you will be rejected by Jesus when he comes back.

So are you going to contradict your own Calvinist once saved always saved beliefs and say that works do not matter toward whether or not a person is going to be saved when Jesus comes back?

Getting a little warm in here, preacher?