Not By Works

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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#48,641
Jul 31, 2013
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#48,641
Ralph- said:
Maybe I can help.

Faith is the sole issue for JUSTIFICATION.

You are justified on the basis of faith all by itself apart from works-Romans 4:6. But works are what accompanies salvation-Hebrews 6:9-10. Without the works that accompany salvation you are a barren field that in the end will be burned not saved-Hebrews 6:7-8.

Justification that does not produce works of righteousness in a person is no justification at all. That person is still unjustified and lost and will be rejected when Jesus comes back. Works of righteousness are how you know that you have truly been justified apart from works in Christ through the forgiveness of sin-Luke 7:47-50.
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yeah i don't think you're helping.
you ain't touching Romans 4:5. why not?



Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved
​
- Jesus

​
Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved
​
- Peter​

You see that a person is justified by works
​
- James​

If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about -
- but not before God.
​
- Paul​
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#48,642
#48,642
posthuman said:
yeah you also never responded to this, and i really would like an answer, since you are here to teach me ((?)) and you're telling me that knowing this is absolutely necessary or i'm going to hell:
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posthuman said:

excuse me but i noticed all your "lists of acceptable works" are "do not's"

do not lie, do not steal etc.

so ((mathematically)) i was wondering, how do i be "ever increasing" in "not stealing" for example?

say i didn't steal yesterday. presto, good work.
but my good work has to be ever increasing or it's not good enough, you say.
so today, i have to "not steal" even more than yesterday.

if i have 0 "thefts" yesterday, i'm not saved unless i have i have "negative 1" thefts today -- ???
i have 0 "adulteries" yesterday, so i'm not saved unless next month i have "-20" adulteries ?

what's negative fifty "not-covet's" look like?

((asking for a friend))
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Are you looking at porn less than you were a year ago? Do you see any growing semblance of Christ in what you do and say? Are you changing? My pastor used Ephesians 4:28 to illustrate how we grow from sin into righteous deeds. We not only stop stealing, but we progress to actually being generous. Do you have this kind of pattern of growth in any areas of your life?
 
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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#48,643
Jul 31, 2013
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#48,643
Ralph- said:
Are you looking at porn less than you were a year ago? Do you see any growing semblance of Christ in what you do and say? Are you changing?
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why are you not answering my questions?

are they difficult?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#48,644
Jul 31, 2013
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#48,644
Ralph

can you even say Romans 4:5 out loud?

are you able to do that?

does it hurt? can you not bear it?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
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Jul 3, 2015
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7777pinacled said:
Absolutely not.
Our Lord and savior is without any sin. Spotless, without blemish. Perfect.
I will carry on for hours, days, yrs, decades.

I just read the discourse you had with someone here and I very happy to read post from a person such as yourself.
You are a blessing.
All I was pointing out is that lust is synonomous with desire, and even coveteousness and envy. It did not go so well when cain envied his brother abel.

I only wanted to separate the word useage itself in order to help any readers who have not read and studied scripture. And also to offer more in the area for those who have been wonderfully given the Spirit of Understanding.

n general I only add that,
If any of the younger in Christ feels short on vocabulary, I hope to encourage all readers here that the scripture is wonderfull in this area.
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Thank you for clarifying, and for your appreciation of my posts :eek:
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#48,649
#48,649
UnderGrace said:
:( Really?
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Yes, really. Are you the same person you were before you made a confession of Christ? If you are, you're either growing up under a rock spiritually speaking, or you're not really born again. It's that simple. And this isn't about perfection. This is about acting perfectly in our daily situations more and more often and to a greater degree.

I know this is going to be difficult for most of you to grasp. Chances are you attend churches that are big on teaching you how to serve in the church, witnessing, giving, developing programs, etc. but are not teaching you how to grow up into Christ and to recognize if you're even really saved to be able to do that.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#48,651
Jul 31, 2013
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#48,651
hey Ralph

**bump**


posthuman said:
Ralph you also never replied to me.

since "it is God who works in me both to will and to do" and "it is not by human desire or effort" then what you keep telling us is that Jesus needs to work harder or we're toast. i'm not the one who makes me like Him. He is. that's what scripture says.

do you believe He is faithful to complete what He began, or not?
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R

Ralph-

Guest
#48,652
#48,652
posthuman said:
Ralph

can you even say Romans 4:5 out loud?

are you able to do that?

does it hurt? can you not bear it?
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Read my posts slowly and carefully. I said what Romans 4:5 and 6 say. I even cited vs. 6.

You must understand that it is JUSTIFICATION that is solely on the basis of faith apart from your works. But you will be deemed to be a saved person at the judgement based on the proof of your works of faith, your obedience.

Read the Hebrews 6 passage I cited carefully and thoughtfully. It says works ACCOMPANY salvation. And it says what those works are. They don't earn it, they ACCOMPANY it, or else you are nothing but a barren field that will be burned up in the end. That's not a works gospel. That's THE gospel that says faith changes a person into one who has works. Lost people are the one's with no works to show for their faith, because they don't got no faith!
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#48,653
#48,653
Okay I get it now, you have issues with denominations, which by the way is not church ekklesia, which is the true body of believers

and you are using scripture as a behaviour management program because Jesus is not able to work in the lives of the saints.

I think you need to do some studying on positional and progressive sanctification and what it means to be justified. IMHO



Ralph- said:
Yes, really. Are you the same person you were before you made a confession of Christ? If you are, you're either growing up under a rock spiritually speaking, or you're not really born again. It's that simple. And this isn't about perfection. This is about acting perfectly in our daily situations more and more often and to a greater degree.

I know this is going to be difficult for most of you to grasp. Chances are you attend churches that are big on teaching you how to serve in the church, witnessing, giving, developing programs, etc. but are not teaching you how to grow up into Christ and to recognize if you're even really saved to be able to do that.
Click to expand...
 
Cee

Cee

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#48,654
May 14, 2010
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#48,654
From what I am reading Ralph is saying, faith produces works. And if you don't have works you don't have faith. I don't disagree with that statement. I don't believe we work to be saved, but our faith does produce change in us to the degree we are discipled and renewed by the Spirit of God, the Bible calls a portion of this: fruit of the Spirit.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#48,655
#48,655
posthuman said:
Ralph you also never replied to me.

since "it is God who works in me both to will and to do" and "it is not by human desire or effort" then what you keep telling us is that Jesus needs to work harder or we're toast. i'm not the one who makes me like Him. He is. that's what scripture says.

do you believe He is faithful to complete what He began, or not?
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If you don't quench the Spirit-1 Thessalonians 5:19 He will complete what he began in you. You have to LET God work the works of the saved person in you. You have to yield to the impulse of the Spirit to walk in obedience. It's not an automatic thing. You are able to quench the Spirit. He did not take that away from the believer. The more you do that the more you'll be able to do it. Just like any child who gets better at doing things as he does them.
 
7777pinacled

7777pinacled

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Dec 4, 2017
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#48,656
Magenta said:
Thank you for clarifying, and for your appreciation of my posts :eek:
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You are very welcome.
Sorry about my writting skills. It has been an area that needed improvement for a few decades or so.

Blessing Always
 
posthuman

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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#48,657
here is the inescapable conclusion of the argument Paul makes in Romans 1-4

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
(Romans 5:1-2)​

if we read Romans 1-4 and don't come to this statement as the inevitable truth of what we've just read, we didn't understand it.

same thing happens when we get to Romans 8 -- "therefore there is now no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" -- if that's not the obvious and inescapable truth when we read Romans 5-7, we didn't understand what we read.

if we're teaching something other than this from Romans, we're wrong. "that's just how it is, baby"


 
posthuman

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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#48,658
Ralph- said:
If you don't quench the Spirit-1 Thessalonians 5:19 He will complete what he began in you. You have to LET God work the works of the saved person in you. You have to yield to the impulse of the Spirit to walk in obedience. It's not an automatic thing. You are able to quench the Spirit. He did not take that away from the believer. The more you do that the more you'll be able to do it. Just like any child who gets better at doing things as he does them.
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how'd it turn out for Jonah when he tried quenching the spirit? for Paul? when post is faithless, who remains faithful? who's got a spirit of fear, and who's got a spirit of thanksgiving? :rolleyes:

i'll trust God and look to Him. you trust Ralph and look to Ralph. hopefully later we can meet in the air and compare notes.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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7777pinacled said:
You are very welcome.
Sorry about my writting skills. It has been an area that needed improvement for a few decades or so.

Blessing Always
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There is nothing wrong with your writing skills that I can see, as you explained yourself perfectly well, and I do appreciate it :) I tend to keep my posts rather short knowing that people don't want to read walls of text and also knowing my own limits on attention, but will add or clarify if people ask. Some people just jump to conclusions based on assumptions they make concerning things which I did not say or even allude to, and I did not want to do that, which was why I asked whose comprehension you were referring to. Anyways, thank you for your input, and keep honing your skills. We all have room for growth and improvement, and praise God that He is working in us to do His will regardless of our human limitations, perceived or real :) God bless you!
 
posthuman

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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#48,660
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
He who calls you is faithful; He will surely do it.
(1 Thessalonians 5:23-24)
​

who is doing the work? on whose shoulders, at whose feet is post's burden?

so long as we're in Thessalonica, let's see some of that "rejoice always" and "give thanks in every circumstance" Ralph?
what on earth could produce such behavior? ;)
some kind of almost unbelievable good news, perhaps?
 
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