Not By Works

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Cee said:
For me the key is: He only did and said what the Father did.

So even if thoughts and emotions came to tempt Him, He didn’t let them consume and control Him. He was lead by His Father.

Being aware of my emotions doesn’t mean they control me. Being aware of the temptations in the world doesn’t mean I’m sinning.

Looking on a woman TO lust feels different to me. It feels like the idea is being lead by lust.

And also it’s says this is adultery, it’s breaking a covenant.

What about lusting after your spouse? Is that sin? I don’t think so. So there’s more going on in that Scripture than a quick surface read might show.

In some Scripture Paul said that he coveted. He wanted spiritual things.

So for me, I’m not at all nor will I ever say Jesus sinned, but I will have a healthy discussion of what is and isn’t sin.

And if I’m flat out wrong and these things ARE sin, Jesus never did them.
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"And the two shall become one". The desire spouses under God have is a Holy desire. It's when one spouse seeks the attention or the comfort or the words of another that breaks this bond the Spirit of God created and causes sin.

Jesus and His Father were one as well. Jesus didn't desire the attention or the comfort or the words of another. He never broke the bond the Spirit of God created between Him and His Father. Had He "looked" to another instruction, or another power, or another Word, He would have been guilty of Adultery.

Christ's true church and Jesus are also one. We are not to desire the attention of another, or the comfort of another, or the Words of another. When we do, we break that Bond the Spirit of God created between us.

Anyway, that's my understanding of the Spiritual bond "marriage" represents.
 
Ralph- said:
Then they bring once saved always saved into the mix and claim you don't have to have works because you got saved the moment you believed and you can't have that taken away. But they forget their own Calvy beliefs which also say that the person who supposedly believes and is supposedly saved at that moment wasn't really saved at that moment if he does not have any works and does not endure to the end. They contradict their own Calvy leanings.
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Not directed at Ralph- per se, because all he will do is add to what I say, lie, and say things not said.

It's a well known fact.

For the record his comments above about contradiction and what not? It's a straw man argument, total misrepresentation and there is no contradiction.

There is, however, a contradistinction.

A person who does not have evidence of conversion and works is proving they were never truly converted. This doesn't contradict anything except his made up scenario where he attempts to say Calvinists teach you don't have to have works and you're still saved.

Bottom line? We don't teach that.

Ralph- is conflating Free Grace Theology beliefs with Calvinist truth, yet they are diametrically opposed. He shows he really doesn't understand either side. But truthful and factual statements are of no concern to Ralph- unfortunately.

According to Ralph- everybody has to be wrong somehow, even if he has to make things up and pretend what he says is factual, like the quote above when it's completely false.

I just wish that "professing believers" would end their lying. Seems at least one here wants to preach and push works and evidence being necessary, but just can't seem to stop lying about others at the same time himself.

How ironic. His belief system and actions just don't match up, and that is a huge concern.

Anyhow, just wanted to set the record straight.
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Sorry again for not making that clear.

and yes, I think we need to all realize, not everyone who professes Christ are our brother or sister..
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No worries, EG, thank you for clearing that up; apology accepted :)

Praying_Every_Blessing_Brother.jpg
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Gracie_14 said:
i avoid the BDF but couldnt help it…
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You shouldn't. I've learned things in this thread that I never considered before, plus have seen how easy it is to start looking at others and judge,mplus trying tonperfect myself when Jesus has already made me perfect in Him. That which was wrong about us all? He PUT IT TO DEATH!

:) I needed to hear it again.
 
Ralph- said:
Yes, everybody knows that. Everybody knows that salvation is not by works. The problem is so many people think that since salvation is not earned by works that means you don't have to have works, period. Among other things, they use the unrewarded but saved man in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15, the person living in moral sin in 1 Corinthians 5:1-5, the thief on the cross in Luke 23:40-43, and the prodigal son in Luke 15:11-32 as their proof that you do not have to have works and you will still be saved when Jesus comes back.

Problem is, in case #1 above, if the works being talked about were moral works of righteousness than Paul is contradicting the rest of the Bible. In case #2, the man had to die to the flesh so that he be saved when Jesus comes back. In case #3, the thief did not deny Christ but overcame to the very end. In case #4, the lost son came back home, he did remain in his fallen state. So none of these so-called proofs are consistent with a person living in sin and being saved despite living without repentance in that sin.

Then they bring once saved always saved into the mix and claim you don't have to have works because you got saved the moment you believed and you can't have that taken away. But they forget their own Calvy beliefs which also say that the person who supposedly believes and is supposedly saved at that moment wasn't really saved at that moment if he does not have any works and does not endure to the end. They contradict their own Calvy leanings.
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1Jn 3:12

1 John 3:12 Do not be like Cain, who was from the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because what he was doing was evil and his brother's actions were righteous.

And what was the difference in the works of these two brothers? Only one pleased the Lord. Why?
 
stonesoffire said:
1Jn 3:12

1 John 3:12 Do not be like Cain, who was from the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because what he was doing was evil and his brother's actions were righteous.

And what was the difference in the works of these two brothers? Only one pleased the Lord. Why?
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cain brought fruit from his works as a tiller


abel brought a sacrifice from his flock....
 
stonesoffire said:
1Jn 3:12

1 John 3:12 Do not be like Cain, who was from the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because what he was doing was evil and his brother's actions were righteous.

And what was the difference in the works of these two brothers? Only one pleased the Lord. Why?
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One gave human good (fruit of my labor)

One obeyed God and gave the sacrifice, because he understood the fruit of his labor was meaningless.
 
NoNameMcgee said:
cain brought fruit from his works as a tiller


abel brought a sacrifice from his flock....
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exactly! And one came out of what God had cursed. The other represented Messiah. Speaks volumes on what pleases Father. And its not because Father is "mean".

Theres so many pictures of men working that brings sweat out of the OT, not included in the things of worship in the temple. Sweat is unclean. Not acceptable to God and does not exist in the heavenly realms.

The very reason why the facecloth over Jesus was aside from the linen shroud. I can't understand why the KJV called it a napkin and not a sweat headband. Which is what we find with study.

What is acceptable? Might make a good thread.


I get ahead of myself and always have to come back and explain. The Word is exciting to me. Lol
 
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Something just occurred to me. Wouldn't a work of the Spirit be also each time the Word comes to mind about an action that prompts response from us and we choose the action, maybe even unthinkingly, be a work pleasing?

Doing what comes natural to the new man? Makes sense or no?
 
He said, “Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed.”
(Genesis 32:28)
​

Jacob "struggled" with God and with man, and Jacob "overcame" -- so his name was changed from one to the other.

was it Jacob's works or Jacob's faith?

he actually lost the wrestling match - it was never a fair fight. one touch, and he was disabled.
we have Jacob's prayer recorded in chapter 32 - in it he says He is unworthy of God, of God's faithfulness, but that God has been faithful, and made him a promise, and prays for God to be faithful. he tells God that he only had his staff at the beginning, but God has blessed him bountifully - undeserving.
then he sends all that he owns, his family and everything, across the river, and camps by himself - i think, only with his staff. this is when the angel wrestles with him. Jacob says to God in his prayer that in the beginning he had only his staff, and when he is back down to only himself and his staff, this is when God meets with him.

just one man and a piece of wood.

one Israelite and a piece of wood. nothing else.

Jacob struggled and overcame. is that about works or faith?

one Jew in particular, and a piece of wood. nothing else.


 
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