Not By Works
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New International Version 1984 John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.
John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.
John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.
John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
Don't be deceived by those who teach that grace is a license to sin; yet at the same time, don't be deceived by those who teach that salvation is by "grace plus law, faith plus works" either.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Create images of God in the likeness of some long haired men's har shampoo model? Maybe you have been watching too much TBN. 
Who said that was my religious tradition and what does that have to do with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ? (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
Create our own Sabbath? The Sabbath has always been Saturday and not Sunday, yet Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations (Exodus 16:23; 31:12-18; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21; 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13) was part of a covenant with Israel that is not applicable to The Church/Christians under the New Covenant. (Colossians 2:16,17)
*I am not Roman Catholic, so your argument here is moot.
What High Days and "Feasts unto the Lord" have I created? You are so focused on rules and regulations that you have lost sight of the CROSS (1 Corinthians 1:18-21).
The Gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). The Gospel is not about whether or not the Pharisees were trying to please God. 1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
Nailed His Father's Word's to the cross? What was nailed to the cross? Colossians 2:13 - When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. 16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day — 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
I have no ancient religious traditions. I defend the Gospel "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16). To "believe" the Gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. I do not defend the perverted gospel of those who teach that salvation is by "grace plus law, faith plus works." Teaching others to transgress the Commandments of God is a straw man argument.
You are confusing me with the Pharisees and the scribes (Matthew 15:1-9; Mark 7:4-9). Your problem is that you have a "different" gospel that is a subtle mixture of "grace and law, faith and works" (Galatians 1:6-9).
What sins have been exposed? Who is angry? I am the complete opposite of a Pharisee and I don't need help from those who pervert the Gospel by teaching salvation through "grace plus law, faith plus works."
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: (hmm.. that sounds familiar) 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ (I am like the tax collector, which is the opposite of the Pharisee) 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Who said that was my religious tradition and what does that have to do with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ? (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Create our own Sabbath? The Sabbath has always been Saturday and not Sunday, yet Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations (Exodus 16:23; 31:12-18; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21; 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13) was part of a covenant with Israel that is not applicable to The Church/Christians under the New Covenant. (Colossians 2:16,17)
*I am not Roman Catholic, so your argument here is moot.
What High Days and "Feasts unto the Lord" have I created? You are so focused on rules and regulations that you have lost sight of the CROSS (1 Corinthians 1:18-21).
The Gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). The Gospel is not about whether or not the Pharisees were trying to please God. 1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
Nailed His Father's Word's to the cross? What was nailed to the cross? Colossians 2:13 - When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. 16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day — 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
I have no ancient religious traditions. I defend the Gospel "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16). To "believe" the Gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. I do not defend the perverted gospel of those who teach that salvation is by "grace plus law, faith plus works." Teaching others to transgress the Commandments of God is a straw man argument.
You are confusing me with the Pharisees and the scribes (Matthew 15:1-9; Mark 7:4-9). Your problem is that you have a "different" gospel that is a subtle mixture of "grace and law, faith and works" (Galatians 1:6-9).
What sins have been exposed? Who is angry? I am the complete opposite of a Pharisee and I don't need help from those who pervert the Gospel by teaching salvation through "grace plus law, faith plus works."
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: (hmm.. that sounds familiar) 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ (I am like the tax collector, which is the opposite of the Pharisee) 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
R
If you think having to have works when Jesus comes back is a 'faith plus works' works gospel then you think Calvinism is a works gospel too. Has to be, because Calvinism says the true believer perseveres to the very end in righteousness or else he was never saved to begin with. That means you have to have works in salvation. Calvinism says you have to have works or you were not really saved.
You people did not realize after all these pages of chatter that you are not being true to your own Calvin beliefs when you say you do not have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back. You people have been insisting that that your own Calvin beliefs are a works gospel and you didn't even realize it. And you didn't realize that to say works are not required to be saved when Jesus comes back is hypergrace teaching, which you are not allowed to discuss in this forum.
You people did not realize after all these pages of chatter that you are not being true to your own Calvin beliefs when you say you do not have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back. You people have been insisting that that your own Calvin beliefs are a works gospel and you didn't even realize it. And you didn't realize that to say works are not required to be saved when Jesus comes back is hypergrace teaching, which you are not allowed to discuss in this forum.
E
There is the issue in a nutshell. People think because they do not overtly murder, lie, cheat, steel, commit sexual sin, they are ok. If all we focus on is these sins, and not what Sin actually is, we will consider ourself more righteous than we are. And miss the whole point of what being sanctified really means.
Amen! Romans 4:9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised.
In James 2:21, we notice that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it showed or evidenced the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works-- he was "shown to be righteous."
In James 2:21, we notice that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it showed or evidenced the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works-- he was "shown to be righteous."
R
And you seem to have forgotten that 'living in' your old life means you were never saved to begin with. Let's review...
Calvinism-you have to persevere to the end or else you were never really saved.
Hypergrace-you don't have to persevere to the very end to be saved.
So which one you going with, people? You can't have it both ways. Either admit you are on board with hypergrace doctrine and be banned from this site for pushing that doctrine, or admit works being required for salvation doesn't have to be a works gospel of self-righteousness. Which one's it going to be, people?
Calvinism-you have to persevere to the end or else you were never really saved.
Hypergrace-you don't have to persevere to the very end to be saved.
So which one you going with, people? You can't have it both ways. Either admit you are on board with hypergrace doctrine and be banned from this site for pushing that doctrine, or admit works being required for salvation doesn't have to be a works gospel of self-righteousness. Which one's it going to be, people?
R
And if Abraham had not followed up with works after his justification we would know, according to Calvin doctrine, that he was not really justified to begin with. That makes works required for salvation. Calvinism teaches you can NOT separate the two. It says you have to have works to the very end or you were never really saved to begin with.
Are we now abandoning our belief in the 'P' in Calvinism now that we see it's nothing more than the self righteousness of adding works to faith, and go with this new hypergrace, freegrace stuff that says you don't have to persevere in the faith to the end to be saved?
Are we now abandoning our belief in the 'P' in Calvinism now that we see it's nothing more than the self righteousness of adding works to faith, and go with this new hypergrace, freegrace stuff that says you don't have to persevere in the faith to the end to be saved?