Not By Works

[Mercy4u]

Good, you're saving me the trouble of finding a quote for BillG about his request to find "verbatim anyone on here who promotes sin through disobedience to Gods commands"

I was going to go hunting for someone who says 1 Corinthians 3 and 1 Corinthians 5 means disobedience does not matter to salvation. But Mercy4u is saying it right here. And he's openly admitting that is Freegrace, hypergrace belief.

Anyone who thinks you can live any way you want after receiving Christ and they will still be saved no matter what is promoting disobedience to God's commands. Old school once saved always saved has taught for centuries that the person who did that was never saved to begin with. The new once saved always saved teaches that this person is saved no matter what he does.

How is divine discipline, being least in His Kingdom, losing eternal rewards and having shame at His Judgement seat teaching a 'license to sin?' Or promoting sin?

It just isn't harsh enough for those who think they are good enough for salvation. They take the discipline of the Lord as "puny" and would rather/or NEED to see Brothers and Sisters FRY forever.

 

[TruthTalk]

for someone who earlier today said they needed to boycott this thread. And make a resolution not to respond any more. He sure is talkative.

He needs to take a few more, "begone pills" and who appointed this guy "Judge Jury and Executioner."

 

[PennEd]

Good, you're saving me the trouble of finding a quote for BillG about his request to find "verbatim anyone on here who promotes sin through disobedience to Gods commands"

I was going to go hunting for someone who says 1 Corinthians 3 and 1 Corinthians 5 means disobedience does not matter to salvation. But Mercy4u is saying it right here. And he's openly admitting that is Freegrace, hypergrace belief.

Anyone who thinks you can live any way you want after receiving Christ and they will still be saved no matter what is promoting disobedience to God's commands. Old school once saved always saved has taught for centuries that the person who did that was never saved to begin with. The new once saved always saved teaches that this person is saved no matter what he does.

This person DID NOT PROMOTE SIN.

They are saying the opposite. That sin has consequences.
You are slandering them, and Scripture says your condemnation is just.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He needs to take a few more, "begone pills" and who appointed this guy "Judge Jury and Executioner."

I think he is showing his true motivation. And I hope everyone is seeing it.

Attack, Slander, Blame shift. Say he is going do one thing, then do another.

Just like those who came before him.

 

[Mercy4u]

Take your lies, your constant insults, and go peddle your false gospel somewhere far away.

There is no such thing as, "Freegrace doctrine", and all subjects" within reason are allowed to be discussed on this forum. Grace is the "Gift of God" -- let God be true and every man a lier. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this is not from yourselves, "it is the gift of God"

3) What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness?
4) Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. ​Romans3:3,4

It is pretty sad that Grace, biblical Grace, is a bad word........even among believers.

This is the apostasy, not some fringe belief. Belief that sounds good, and is very close to the truth is the true apostasy.

Good post.

 

[Ralph-]

Interesting POV.

But this Scripture says:

Romans 6:14For sin will not rule over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.

It is because we are under grace and NOT the law that sin no longer rules over us.

Do you know WHY you're not under the law? In the context of justification, do you know what that means?

 

[Ralph-]

This person DID NOT PROMOTE SIN.

They are saying the opposite. That sin has consequences.
You are slandering them, and Scripture says your condemnation is just.

Please, stop with these stupid slandering accusations. This is a thread about salvation, not rewards. He is promoting sin in salvation. And he admitted that was freegrace, hypergrace belief (they are the same thing).

 

[Ralph-]

It is pretty sad that Grace, biblical Grace, is a bad word........even among believers.

This is the apostasy, not some fringe belief. Belief that sounds good, and is very close to the truth is the true apostasy.

Good post.

Grace is not a bad word. You make it bad when you say it is your ticket, your license, to be able to live in your old life and still be saved when Jesus comes back.

The grace of God was given to us to STOP sinning, not make it so we can live in our old lives and still be saved.

 

[Ralph-]

How is divine discipline, being least in His Kingdom, losing eternal rewards and having shame at His Judgement seat teaching a 'license to sin?' Or promoting sin?

Because you say grace makes it so I can live in my old life and still be saved when Jesus comes back.

 

[Mercy4u]

Because you say grace makes it so I can live in my old life and still be saved when Jesus comes back.

So there is no place for divine discipline, eternal rewards, reign in His Kingdom or shame at his judgement Seat?

We better get it all together or we were never saved or will lose salvation?

One who is trying to clean up the old life IS living in their old life. Doesn't mean they are not saved. It is just a life of worthless works. Live in the Spirit. The old life is ignored.

 

[Ralph-]

He needs to take a few more, "begone pills" and who appointed this guy "Judge Jury and Executioner."

Who decided you and your club could take the 'P' out of TULIP?

 

[Mercy4u]

Please, stop with these stupid slandering accusations. This is a thread about salvation, not rewards. He is promoting sin in salvation. And he admitted that was freegrace, hypergrace belief (they are the same thing).

I am not promoting sin. Sin has eternal consequences and His Word warns us over and over about living a lifestyle of sin. And there are harsh.....even physical death consequences. It just isn't loss of salvation.

Your promoting evil(human good/self righteousness) which has even greater consequences than those who "go back to the tavern."

The brood of vipers wasn't a bunch of overt sinners. They were those who thought they were doing good and were good enough to be in His Kingdom.

 

[hardsell]

One who is trying to clean up the old life IS living in their old life. Doesn't mean they are not saved. It is just a life of worthless works. Live in the Spirit. The old life is ignored.

The Bible does not say the old life is ignored. The Bible says the old life is buried with Christ and a new man is raised into newness of life.

 

[Zi]

Do you believe TULIP?

Who decided you and your club could take the 'P' out of TULIP?

 

[Cee]

In response to the idea that believers don't/can't sin:

If believers didn't/couldn't sin much of NT Scripture wouldn't have been written informing people to no longer sin.

The very presence of Scripture instructing believers who they are in Christ tells us that discipleship/renewing the mind is necessary.

It's not a salvation issue as some suppose, it's an identity issue of who they are in Christ. And that they are now free from sin. Free to love one another which is the whole of the law.

 

[Cee]

The Bible does not say the old life is ignored. The Bible says the old life is buried with Christ and a new man is raised into newness of life.

True, but most don't realize that and are not discipled properly. That's why we are transformed by the "renewing of the mind".

 

[Cee]

Do you know WHY you're not under the law? In the context of justification, do you know what that means?

Yes I do. I will answer you with direct Scripture quotes:

I died to the law. I am now reborn in Christ. It is not I who live, but Christ in me. The life I now live is not for self, but for righteousness unto God. I am a new creation. I carry the ministry of reconciliation which God makes His appeal through my life to no longer be apart from Him, but to be reconciled to God. I am now cleansed, justified, and glorified in Him. I am a holy priesthood that serves my Lord. And His commands are not grievous to me because His yoke is easy and light. He has given me the right to be His child and thus I am like Him and I represent Him on the Earth, as He is so am I in this world. His Spirit and my spirit are joined together. I am His Body and He is my Head.

 

[Mercy4u]

The Bible does not say the old life is ignored. The Bible says the old life is buried with Christ and a new man is raised into newness of life.

Correct.

And we can Glorify Christ if we choose to be filled with the Spirit and walk in the Spirit. The majority choose to walk in the buried life and Try as hard as they can to clean the old life up.

Being moral and cleaning up the old life will NEVER produce spirituality.

Being Spiritual and living the Spiritual life will ALWAYS produce a morality conducive to His Word.

 

[Ralph-]

Do you believe TULIP?

For this thread, it doesn't matter. Because both Calvinism and Arminianism agree that if you are not a persevering, obedient believer when Jesus comes back you will not be saved. The only difference is if you have no works of faith when Jesus comes back Calvy's think you were never saved to begin with. Arminy's on the other hand believe you were either never saved to begin OR you lost your salvation somewhere along the line.

So you see, losing your salvation or never having it to begin does not change the fact that you will be rejected if you are not a believer on the day Jesus comes back. You will be lost either way. I prefer not to start up a new subject that has no bearing on this thread by sharing my stance about Calvinism and Arminiansim. It belongs in it's own thread.

What we do need to know is if a person is hypergrace. That is what matters for this thread. This new hypergrace, freegrace 'thing' says 1 Corinthians 3 and 1 Corinthians 5 teach that you do not have to have a changed life to be saved when Jesus comes. You only have to believe, no works required to be saved.

Calvinist don't seem to realize that if they interpret the two passages mentioned above as meaning you can have no works when Jesus comes back and you will still be saved, because salvation is not by works, that contradicts their own Calvin beliefs. They are no longer Calvinists. They are hypergrace. They don't seem to realize this.

Calvinism by definition says you must have works when Jesus comes back or you were never saved to begin with. We seem to be having a problem getting Calvinists to admit this. They have been subtlety swayed by the re-emergence of hypergrace, freegrace theology in the church. Which is really nothing more than Gnotstic belief (the flesh has no bearing on the Spirit) which plagued the church even during the time of the Apostles and which caused John to write his secondary letters warning against it.

So, Calvy's, are you going to continue to insist that you do not have to have works when Jesus comes back and depart from your Calvin theology and embrace hypergrace teaching instead?

 

[TruthTalk]

For this thread, it doesn't matter. Because both Calvinism and Arminianism agree that if you are not a persevering, obedient believer when Jesus comes back you will not be saved. The only difference is if you have no works of faith when Jesus comes back Calvy's think you were never saved to begin with. Arminy's on the other hand believe you were either never saved to begin OR you lost your salvation somewhere along the line. So you see, losing your salvation or never having it to begin does not change the fact that if you are not a believer on the day Jesus comes back. You will be lost either way. I prefer not to start up a new subject that has no bearing on this thread. It belongs in it's own thread.

What we do know is if a person is Calvy or hypergrace. That is what matters for this thread. This new hypergrace, freegrace 'thing' says 1 Corinthians 3 and 1 Corinthians 5 teach that you do not have to have a changed life to be saved when Jesus comes. You only have to believe, no works required to be saved.

Calvinist don't seem to realize that when they interpret the two passages mentioned above as meaning you can have no works when Jesus comes back and you will still be saved, because salvation is not by works, that contradicts their own Calvin beliefs. They are no longer Calvinists. They are hypergrace. They don't seem to realize this.

Calvinism by definition says you must have works when Jesus comes back or you were never saved to begin with. We seem to be having a problem getting Calvinists to admit this. They have been subtlety swayed by the re-emergence of hypergrace, freegrace theology in the church. Which is really nothing more than Gnotstic belief (the flesh has no bearing on the Spirit) which plagued the church even during the time of the Apostles and which caused John to write his secondary letters warning against it.

So, Calvy's, are you going to continue to insist that you do not have to have works when Jesus comes back and depart from your Calvin theology and embrace hypergrace teaching instead?

Hypergrace is not being taught in this thread, if it was this thread would have been closed down -- more of your constant lies and false accusations.