Not By Works

[Tommy379]

If you do all these things, you were never converted. Ok? Want more?

Well skimming through this thread, I see two opposing forces. One side believes faith alone is sufficient for salvation. The other side believes it requires obedience to the law.

The question is, if one is saved by faith, then commits murder, what is the consequences from God?

So far, no one has answered this, and I would like to know.

 

[Tommy379]

1st and foremost a child of God will not live a continual lifestyle of sin without repentance at some time.....second....God chastens every son he receives up to and including the loss of reward and physical life.........

So it requires good works ?

 

[BillG]

Tommy said nothing about him obeying anything. Tommy wants to know what the consequences of disobedience is.

Can Tommy be saved and murder, fornicate, steal, lie, and cheat all he wants?

Tommy can do whatever he wants. And if all Tommy wants do is the above then Tommy is not saved to start with.
The consequences of disobedience.

Matthew 27:45-51
The Death of Jesus
Matt 27:45-56 // Mark 15:33-41 // Luke 23:44-49 // John 19:28-30
45 At noon, darkness fell across the whole land until three o’clock. 46 At about three o’clock, Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” which means “My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?”
47 Some of the bystanders misunderstood and thought he was calling for the prophet Elijah. 48 One of them ran and filled a sponge with sour wine, holding it up to him on a reed stick so he could drink. 49 But the rest said, “Wait! Let’s see whether Elijah comes to save him.”
50 Then Jesus shouted out again, and he released his spirit. 51 At that moment the curtain in the sanctuary of the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, rocks split apart,

Now if Tommy is truly saved He is because of the following.

Romans 10:9-13
9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”12 Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. 13 For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

And when Tommy does this with sincerity

Then Tomny knows

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Therefore Tomny will not want to be a bad boy because Tommy loves Jesus.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Tommy said nothing about him obeying anything. Tommy wants to know what the consequences of disobedience is.

Can Tommy be saved and murder, fornicate, steal, lie, and cheat all he wants?

when you are born again

you can still have temptations to do evil things
this is of the flesh


but when your NEW heart and spirit given by God notice these temptations or thoughts
God provides a way out


the difference between someone who is saved actually giving in to one of these temptations

and someone who is in unbelief having not yet been born again


is one will be broken over his sin
and desire to be delivered from these temptations of the flesh and pray to God (who will provide all His children ask for if it is according to His will)


the other will take pleasure in these things and be harden untill he/she eventually becomes reprobate
then they will call good evil and evil good




the punisment for these things to an unbeliever is eternal hellfire


the punishments for someone who will be covered by the righteousness of Jesus will vary

but the most obvious is a lack of fruit (lack of eternal rewards in heaven)
and chastening from God

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Tommy thinks no such thing. Tommy asked a question in a thread that has over 47k post. If you can not answer it, then do not reply to it. This is not a test. It was a question, presented in a form of a question.

1 John - anyone who sins has never seen God or known God, whoever is born of God can not sin, because he has been born of God.

Forgive me, but when people use murder as a means to support a view,. It should give everyone pause. Because no one can live up to Gods standard. So I did answer you, no one can obey God According to his standard.

 

[stonesoffire]

Wow. That is why most of his buddies are no longer here. His true spirituality is showing its self (or should I say lack of)

Well skimming through this thread, I see two opposing forces. One side believes faith alone is sufficient for salvation. The other side believes it requires obedience to the law.

The question is, if one is saved by faith, then commits murder, what is the consequences from God?

So far, no one has answered this, and I would like to know.

Obedience is faith. All are commanded now to repent. Obey the gospel and live. Unbelief will kill.

Conversion is repenting of the old nature. The old man is cut off by an act of God called circumcision. And a new heart/ nature is given and will show the fruits of salvation.

That is grace Tommy. The gift of a spirit of Holiness that men cannot obtain bybworks. Only by thevworks of Jesus and His Cross and ressurection.



my iPad is attaching other posts on its own again. Will log out to stop. Sorry if there's confusion from this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well skimming through this thread, I see two opposing forces. One side believes faith alone is sufficient for salvation. The other side believes it requires obedience to the law.

The question is, if one is saved by faith, then commits murder, what is the consequences from God?

So far, no one has answered this, and I would like to know.

What if someone is saved by faith and lies? what if they are saved and know to do right and does not do it? What if they are saved and covets their neighbors new car or his house, or his wife?

Why do you have to use murder? If you read this thread, you will see people who use murder as a strawman usually are using it to puff themse4lf up. Not saying you are. Just saying that is the norm, so if you continue,. You probably will not be responded to very well. because of past history of people who use this strawman.

 

[hardsell]

No one is better than anyone else.

Except for me, because I'm sinless. I'm better than all of you..

LOL JK

Only orange tabby owners think they are prefect. When everyone knows that the Manx Cat owners are only perfect.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So it requires good works ?

That would mean grace is null and void would it not?

Paul said if it is of grace it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace and vice versa

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Tommy can do whatever he wants. And if all Tommy wants do is the above then Tommy is not saved to start with.
The consequences of disobedience.

Matthew 27:45-51
The Death of Jesus
Matt 27:45-56 // Mark 15:33-41 // Luke 23:44-49 // John 19:28-30
45 At noon, darkness fell across the whole land until three o’clock. 46 At about three o’clock, Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” which means “My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?”
47 Some of the bystanders misunderstood and thought he was calling for the prophet Elijah. 48 One of them ran and filled a sponge with sour wine, holding it up to him on a reed stick so he could drink. 49 But the rest said, “Wait! Let’s see whether Elijah comes to save him.”
50 Then Jesus shouted out again, and he released his spirit. 51 At that moment the curtain in the sanctuary of the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, rocks split apart,

Now if Tommy is truly saved He is because of the following.

Romans 10:9-13
9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”12 Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. 13 For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

And when Tommy does this with sincerity

Then Tomny knows

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Therefore Tomny will not want to be a bad boy because Tommy loves Jesus.

And the reason Tommy loves jesus?

because jesus loved tommy first!

 

[BillG]

Can Tommy be saved and murder, fornicate, steal, lie, and cheat all he wants?

Well skimming through this thread, I see two opposing forces. One side believes faith alone is sufficient for salvation. The other side believes it requires obedience to the law.

The question is, if one is saved by faith, then commits murder, what is the consequences from God?

So far, no one has answered this, and I would like to know.

You seem to be posting two different things.

Your first quote seems to allude to murder amongst other things that you do all the time or you can do it whenever you want.

Your second post seems to allude to a one of event.

What is it you are trying to get at?

With regards to murder it doesn't have to be physical

Proverbs 18:21
21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue,
And those who love it will eat its fruit.

With regards to fornicating is doesn't have to be physical.

Matthew 5:28
28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

And so on.

 

[stonesoffire]

Well skimming through this thread, I see two opposing forces. One side believes faith alone is sufficient for salvation. The other side believes it requires obedience to the law.

The question is, if one is saved by faith, then commits murder, what is the consequences from God?

So far, no one has answered this, and I would like to know.

if I as a Christian commit a murder, then I would have to confess it. God would chasten me sorely but not give me over to death. One who continues to sin beyond His chastening, scripture says flesh leads to death. Then as by fire. No rewards.

Actually, I skipped what I see from scripture as the second step. God will hem us in or allow Satan to work in our life. Part of chastening.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If I am a non christian and commit murder and get caught, I will be brought in front of a judge, and be punished, my penalty may be death (physical)

if I am a christian, the same things will happen. Only things far greater will also occur (I will be chastened by God, I will most likely lose reward in heaven, i will suffer the shame of having that sin exposed in heaven, and have the guilt which comes from all sin.

if I did it as a non believer, I was dead before I commited murder, and will be dead after (spiritual) because I have not trusted in the name of jesus

if I am a christian. My sin was washed by the blood. I was alive before I did it, I had eternal life. And that life still stands, Although my witness has been seriously damaged, maybe so much my light is out. And God may need to bring me home because I am rendered useless. yet as we see with the example of David Moses and Saul/Paul. God can still use people who have murdered (remember, david murdered LONG after God said he was a man after his own heart)

 

[stonesoffire]

How would you know they were not converted?

I might not. There are many deceivers in the world. I seem to remember reading this somewhere.

So I need to hear His Voice lead me.


many receivers too. Lol

 

[tourist]

I thought that I would submit this verse for consideration. My own personal belief is that salvation only requires confession and repentance of sin, that the shed blood of Jesus dying on the cross for our sins is sufficient. So faith is required and that any works performed after salvation are a manifestation of salvation only and not a cause of it. Still, this verse is very interesting in how in applies to the saved born again believer.

​

Phil 2:12

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I thought that I would submit this verse for consideration. My own personal belief is that salvation only requires confession and repentance of sin, that the shed blood of Jesus dying on the cross for our sins is sufficient. So faith is required and that any works performed after salvation are a manifestation of salvation only and not a cause of it. Still, this verse is very interesting in how in applies to the saved born again believer.

​

Phil 2:12

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.​

Amen Pauls greatest fear was that he would do something that would destroy his reputation and disqualify him from being a true teacher of God, He wanted to allow God to shine his light through him..

Sadly we have seen so many men of God do this very thing, and totally destroy their ministry and give God a bad name.

 

[hardsell]

1 John - anyone who sins has never seen God or known God, whoever is born of God can not sin, because he has been born of God.

Forgive me, but when people use murder as a means to support a view,. It should give everyone pause. Because no one can live up to Gods standard. So I did answer you, no one can obey God According to his standard.

So good thing we have God's standard applied to us, just as 2 Cor 5:21 says we do, right?

This does not mean we will not sin, you will sin and I will sin l, but it does mean that the standard you talk about has been met. by the blood of Jesus.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Hi all...I had a temptation just before the new year for alcohol...I was shopping in Tesco and they had a lady there standing at a little table offering to taste the drink she was advertising, and normally I would take that free gulp, but this time I prayed as I pushed my trolley and asked God to help me...I remembered Scriptures and put them in my mouth and spoke them and I used my way out of the temptation that God has given me...

One small cup of that drink could of led me to a bottle, this was the first time I put Scripture to use where drink is concerned, the out come, I am still sober praise God ...Murder, lying and all sins will lay beside us, but the WILL of God is stronger than any of these powers...Now I can look back and see the work that our LORD is doing in my life, even though sometimes I may not see the changes, but this was evidence that He is working in me ...In my own will I would be still allowing the devil to condemn me, but Gods grace has me covered, I do not take it for granted that I have conquered my battle, far from it, but I do know I am saved by the grace of God, because if I wasn't, His fruit would not be in me, I am stronger today then I was yesterday, not because of anything I have done, but what He is doing in me...

It is God who keeps us, we are in the palm of His hand, we are sealed, He is our security, these are things are mind should be on, not allowing the devil to destroy the Joy that the LORD has given us, we are hidden in Him, how can we lose our Salvation if we are hidden in Him ...xox...

 

[hardsell]

What if someone is saved by faith and lies? what if they are saved and know to do right and does not do it? What if they are saved and covets their neighbors new car or his house, or his wife?

Why do you have to use murder? If you read this thread, you will see people who use murder as a strawman usually are using it to puff themse4lf up. Not saying you are. Just saying that is the norm, so if you continue,. You probably will not be responded to very well. because of past history of people who use this strawman.

pick a better bone man, he used 3 or 4 different sins/temptations in his example.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi all...I had a temptation just before the new year for alcohol...I was shopping in Tesco and they had a lady there standing at a little table offering to taste the drink she was advertising, and normally I would take that free gulp, but this time I prayed as I pushed my trolley and asked God to help me...I remembered Scriptures and put them in my mouth and spoke them and I used my way out of the temptation that God has given me...

One small cup of that drink could of led me to a bottle, this was the first time I put Scripture to use where drink is concerned, the out come, I am still sober praise God ...Murder, lying and all sins will lay beside us, but the WILL of God is stronger than any of these powers...Now I can look back and see the work that our LORD is doing in my life, even though sometimes I may not see the changes, but this was evidence that He is working in me ...In my own will I would be still allowing the devil to condemn me, but Gods grace has me covered, I do not take it for granted that I have conquered my battle, far from it, but I do know I am saved by the grace of God, because if I wasn't, His fruit would not be in me, I am stronger today then I was yesterday, not because of anything I have done, but what He is doing in me...

It is God who keeps us, we are in the palm of His hand, we are sealed, He is our security, these are things are mind should be on, not allowing the devil to destroy the Joy that the LORD has given us, we are hidden in Him, how can we lose our Salvation if we are hidden in Him ...xox...

Amen sis, God must be our strength no matter what our besetting sin may be!

Thank you for this witness and testimony, praise God!