Not By Works

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Ralph-

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eternally-gratefull said:
It just goes to show his true self, and purpose. To attack others and try to make them look bad. While trying to act all righteous himself.

Its phariseeism/cainism at its best.
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I know it's futile to get your club to act civil and fair. I was looking for a consensus, not saying that I was in fact now doing it. But I know this is how they treated Jesus. They did not assail his doctrine as much as they did him personally. That is how you know who is of the truth and who is not. If they are attacking you personally looking for every little flaw they can, and inventing them if they don't find any, you are dealing with a child of darkness, not the light.
 
star

star

Senior Member
#47,743
Nov 8, 2017
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#47,743
Let me throw this out. Unbelievers can produce good works in today's world and they do. Unbelievers do good things for their fellowman often.

However, a Christian will produce good works because of a changed heart and mind. The objective for good works should be "serving" and "producing" for the Body of Christ, our Lord.

Producing good works is an individual Christian thing in accordance to how God uses each individual.
 
Chester

Chester

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May 23, 2016
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star said:
Let me throw this out. Unbelievers can produce good works in today's world and they do. Unbelievers do good things for their fellowman often.

However, a Christian will produce good works because of a changed heart and mind. The objective for good works should be "serving" and "producing" for the Body of Christ, our Lord.

Producing good works is an individual Christian thing in accordance to how God uses each individual.
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Depends how you define "good works" -- If "good works" can only be done through God's Spirit, then unbelievers cannot produce them. All they can produce is external actions that look good, but are really selfish at the core.
 
R

Ralph-

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#47,745
#47,745
Chester said:
This thread makes interesting reading! True faith works! Yes, indeed!

A dead faith has no power to save! Right on!

A living faith will produce works (of differing levels in different people).

We are saved by the grace of God through our response in faith! Amen!
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But then these people will turn right around and say if you're not obedient you're still saved completely contradicting what they said before.

If you believe that obedience does not matter and that you can 'believe' but you don't have to obey to be saved when Jesus comes back and you continue in disobedience because salvation is not by obedience, and God will kill you and take you to paradise for doing being disobedient then you are hypergrace. This is the new once saved always saved in the church.

If you believe that obedience is the sign of the true believer and that the true believer perseveres to the very end, or else he is not really saved, you are old school once saved always saved.

You can't have it both ways people. Which one are you?

If you are the first one, you are hypergrace. You're not even allowed to post your beliefs in this forum. And if you continue to defend that doctrine after knowing the implications of that belief you are showing yourself to not be a true believer.

If you are the second one, then you agree that you have to have works to be saved or else you are not really a true believer. Which was people who dont' believe in once saved always saved believe too.

So, which one are you? Fess up. Let's see who rallies to the side of right and who does not.
 
Chester

Chester

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Ralph- said:
You'll see. when it dies down again he'll bump it back up. Watch.
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Is it possible to know what someone else will do? Do you believe in Calvinistic predestination? :)
 
star

star

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#47,747
Chester said:
Depends how you define "good works" -- If "good works" can only be done through God's Spirit, then unbelievers cannot produce them. All they can produce is external actions that look good, but are really selfish at the core.
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I know some who are not believers in God yet they have given assistance to the poor and needed. Their actions were for the good of others.

Who are we to judge that action? If that action helped someone less fortunate.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#47,748
#47,748
Chester said:
Is it possible to know what someone else will do? Do you believe in Calvinistic predestination? :)
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That's what he's been doing. Now that I've exposed that maybe he'll stop and this 'thing' can die and go away. Or he can continue to do that and prove that what I said is true. He's kind of in a pickle that way.

But probably what's going to happen is the other members of his little glee club will keep it bumped up just out of sheer rebellion to what I said and so he won't look foolish. I'm kind of going with that. That's most likely what we'll see. Defiant rebellion is at the heart of hypergrace doctrine. You'll see it in everything they do. Let's see what happens.
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
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May 23, 2016
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#47,749
Ralph- said:
But then these people will turn right around and say if you're not obedient you're still saved completely contradicting what they said before.

If you believe that obedience does not matter and that you can 'believe' but you don't have to obey to be saved when Jesus comes back and you continue in disobedience because salvation is not by obedience, and God will kill you and take you to paradise for doing being disobedient then you are hypergrace. This is the new once saved always saved in the church.

If you believe that obedience is the sign of the true believer and that the true believer perseveres to the very end, or else he is not really saved, you are old school once saved always saved.

You can't have it both ways people. Which one are you?

If you are the first one, you are hypergrace. You're not even allowed to post your beliefs in this forum. And if you continue to defend that doctrine after knowing the implications of that belief you are showing yourself to not be a true believer.

If you are the second one, then you agree that you have to have works to be saved or else you are not really a true believer. Which was people who dont' believe in once saved always saved believe too.

So, which one are you? Fess up. Let's see who rallies to the side of right and who does not.
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Interesting: LOL!

So now we have three options:

(1) Belief in new school OSAS = hypergrace
(2) Belief in old school OSAS
(3) Belief the way I believe (LOL) :p

OK, all of you out there, which are you?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#47,750
#47,750
Chester said:
Depends how you define "good works" -- If "good works" can only be done through God's Spirit, then unbelievers cannot produce them. All they can produce is external actions that look good, but are really selfish at the core.
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I think this is the Jist of the argument, Is obeying one of Gods commands a good work? Or is producing fruit a good work.

If obeying a command was a good work.. Unsaved people can have many good works. If producing fruit is a good work. Then only those born of God can produce good works.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Chester said:
Is it possible to know what someone else will do? Do you believe in Calvinistic predestination? :)
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Heh, good question ;) But, you should know, that David (dcontroversal) is often in Australia and in a completely different time zone than we are, in which case he is not here to post when we are posting. He was once accused of going back something like eight pages (or more?) to respond to something, but the fact of the matter is, that the post to which he had responded had been made earlier in the day, because there are times when even ten pages in this thread in one day is not unheard of. People try to fabricate all kinds of offenses to stick on him, but often they are just being ridiculous, to say the least :)

All of that is quite beside the point, that if someone posts in this thread, THEY are responsible for their actions, regardless of whether or not anyone else is posting here :)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#47,752
#47,752
Chester said:
Interesting: LOL!

So now we have three options:

(1) Belief in new school OSAS = hypergrace
(2) Belief in old school OSAS
(3) Belief the way I believe (LOL) :p

OK, all of you out there, which are you?
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What separates new school from Old School osas?

And what about Calvinistic OSAS vs non Calvinistic OSAS?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#47,753
#47,753
Magenta said:
Heh, good question ;) But, you should know, that David (dcontroversal) is often in Australia and in a completely different time zone than we are, in which case he is not here to post when we are posting. He was once accused of going back something like eight pages (or more?) to respond to something, but the fact of the matter is, that the post to which he had responded had been made earlier in the day, because there are times when even ten pages in this thread in one day is not unheard of. People try to fabricate all kinds of offenses to stick on him, but often they are just being ridiculous, to say the least :)

All of that is quite beside the point, that if someone posts in this thread, THEY are responsible for their actions, regardless of whether or not anyone else is posting here :)
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I could not have said it any better,. Amen 100 times over!!
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
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Nov 24, 2013
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Ralph- said:
As a New Year's resolution let us stop posting here and let the little glee club that wears the 'like' button out on each other's posts here encourage each other in their disobedience and blindness.
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Or you could join the club? The water is fresh and flowing. So clear that all you see is Jesus. :)
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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Nov 24, 2013
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Tommy379 said:
Somewhere along the way, I posted in here before today. This thread fills my email up every day. I can't remember when or what I wrote.

My question is: If we are saved by faith alone, what is the consequences to a saved Christian, who disobeys God's laws?
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If you are trying to obey law, you will fail. The result is condemnation, a lack of peace, and a sense of loss of His Presence.

Walk free..
 
tourist

tourist

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Mar 13, 2014
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#47,760
Ralph- said:
As a New Year's resolution let us stop posting here and let the little glee club that wears the 'like' button out on each other's posts here encourage each other in their disobedience and blindness.
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I already have made my list of New Year's resolutions and this is not one of them. The 'like' button serves many purposes and one of them is to acknowledge that you have read someone's post and agree with a least a part of it. Another, is like you have said, encouragement, not to disobedience and blindness but rather that you understand what they are trying to express and see worth in them as another child of God. However, per your request, I have not given your post a 'like'.
 
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