The Rapture

DiscipleDave · Nov 22, 2017

Tell me something, if God has told me in conversation what is going to happen in the future, why would i have a need to study what the theologians (humans) say and teach about what is going to happen in the future?
And as to if they are right or wrong, i have no clue if they are or not, what i do know is what God has told me is TRUE.

Also you say something about my ego is getting in the way. Tell me if i were to say the TRUTHS that i teach come from ME, would that not be from "MY EGO"? If i say and teach "I know the TRUTH because I have read the Bible over 80 times in my life, I have countless of hours of studying the Scriptures, I have lived in a Monastery to Study the Scriptures, I am an ordained minister."That would be MY EGO getting in the way. But i have been pretty clear that what i teach is what God told me, therefore i am not taking the credit for what i teach AT ALL, but am merely repeating what He has told me. If then i merely repeat what He told me, how is that MY EGO? Methinks you don't know what you are talking about. No offence but that is what methinks.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Ahwatukee · Nov 22, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

The problem DiscipleDave, is that the information that you are claiming that "God told you" does not match up with his written word, which presents a huge problem. They only match up according to you. I have shown you scriptures as to why your end-time scenario is wrong, but you won't except it.

You've excluded the first six seals as being apart of God's wrath and you have the new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven and touching down on this present earth in the middle of the seven years, when scripture is clear that the first heaven and first earth pass away before the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem appear and in fact don't appear until after the great white throne judgment has taken place. You also have Jesus returning in the middle of the seven years, yet scripture has him arriving at the end of the seven years and after his wrath has been completed.

DiscipleDave · Nov 22, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Greetings to you as well Brother.

Ahwatukee said:

i have never said the seven year Tribulation Period is man's wrath, nor satan's wrath. And God's wrath has been poured out all throughout History, Was not Adam and Even kicked out of the Garden because they angered God. Was God going to pour out His wrath on Israel when they made the Golden Calf? Did not God wrath come upon Egypt during Exodus? Is it not written that if we sow to the flesh we will reap corruption in the flesh from God? Is it not written that God punishes us by chastising those that He loves? So then God's wrath can fall under many different things can it not? Now the 7 year Tribulation Period is that God's Wrath? MOST CERTAINLY, but my point to you is that it is NOT His ONLY wrath, like you seem to believe.

Ahwatukee said:

True, and i have never said otherwise. Now it is YOUR OPINION that when God starts opening the 7 seals it will be during the 7 years Tribulation Period. However there is NOTHING in all of Scriptures that indicates that they will start to open During the 7 year Tribulation Period, that is entirely YOUR OPINION. Truthfully i would like to know how you came up with that opinion. You seemed to be pretty knowledgeable in the Word, therefore break it down to me, using the Word of God, that led you to believe OPENING THE FIRST SEAL STARTS THE 7 YEAR TRIBULATION PERIOD.
i know where you stand and say that the Seals, Trumpets, and Bowels are all Wrath of God, and therefore the 7 year Tribulation is also the Wrath of God, and then you deduced that since the Seals are a part of the Wrath of God that it must be included in the 7 year Tribulation Period which is the Wrath of God. Again, i ask you though, to show any Scriptures that indicates that the Wrath of God is ONLY SECLUDED to the 7 year Tribulation Period. i have even showed where the Wrath of God has taken place outside of ONLY the 7 year Tribulation Period.

Brother, i know you disagree with the first 5 seals being outside of the 7 year Tribulation Period represented in the timeline above. But as i said before and is still True, what is shown in the timeline is not contrary to Scriptures. If you can show one verse that shows any of the first 5 seals being broken have to happen during the 7 year Tribulation Period, then i will gladly change the timeline to reflect Scriptures.
Now it is clear that the timeline is contrary to what YOU think is the Truth, but is NOT contrary to any Scriptures, if you think it is contrary to Scriptures then reveal the Scriptures. Thanks.

Ahwatukee said:

True, and i have not said otherwise, nor does the timeline say other than that either. Yes the Entire 7 year Tribulation Period is the wrath of God, this is TRUE. Now it is YOUR OPINION that all of the seals are a part of the 7 year Tribulation Period, unless you can show relevant Scriptures to back that opinion up.

Ahwatukee said:

Absolutely True, unless they put their hands into sin. It is written: You reap what you sow, Sow to the flesh reap corruption in the flesh by God, you will repay for the wrong that you do, the righteous sinning is a corrupt spring and shall die.
When you accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord, all the sins that you committed up to that point, Jesus paid for by stripes and crucifixion. All those sins that you choose to commit after that, YOU PAY FOR! What? Do you think Christ takes Stripes and put back on the cross each time you commit a new sin? He took away your sins ONCE, He paid for your sins ONCE. Now as Christians when we commit sin we ask Jesus to forgive us for that sin, and if we TRULY REPENT of that sin, He does indeed forgive us that sin, However the price is still paid by US. Reap what you sow.
For example if you are committing sin by adultery, and You cease and Truly repent of that sin, He will forgive you for that sin, but YOU will still pay the consequences of your own actions, you will reap corruption in your flesh because you committed that sin, Yes you are forgiven but you still have to reap what you have sown. When? When do you suffer corruption in your flesh because of that sin? It could be tomorrow, it could be a year from now, it could very well be during the 7 year Tribulation Period as well, as a final test to believers to see if they will fall away from the faith because of the corruption in their flesh, which they brought upon their own selves but will not realize that God said "if you sow to the flesh you shall reap corruption in the flesh" Therefore MANY and i say MANY will suffer corruption in their flesh during the 7 year Tribulation Period, and they will fall away from God, because they do not understand why they are suffering so much, and it will be because of all that sowing to the flesh they committed AFTER they accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord, and God does not lie, and anyone, ANYONE who sows to their flesh WILL reap corruption in that flesh one day in the future, because God does not lie.

Gal_6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
(Anyone sowing to the Spirit won't be sowing to the his/her flesh)

Ahwatukee said:

When does Jesus deliver us from the wrath to come? When He Returns, correct? When He returns He takes up the Church, this is Correct, and indeed it is at the time that Jesus delivers us from the wrath to come. Now if you look at the timeline above, When does it show Jesus coming? During the middle of the 7 year Tribulation Period. So tell me, When Jesus comes according to the timeline, does Jesus deliver us from the wrath to come AFTER He gets here? Look at the timeline, the wrath of the 7 vials/bowels comes AFTER Jesus arrives and gathers up the Church to be with Him in the Holy City. So then the timeline is correct, Jesus delivers us Christians by taking us from the wrath of the 7 bowels to come.
Now it is YOUR OPINION that that wrath to come includes the whole 7 year Tribulation Period, that indeed is your opinion.

Ahwatukee said:

The verse says He will keep them from the hour of Temptation, it is YOUR OPINION that is God's coming wrath. God's coming wrath that you are referring to is 7 years, What? now you are associating the HOUR of temptation with the WHOLE 7 year Tribulation Period? You don't see a flaw here? 7 Year Tribulation is a WEEK, But now you are teaching the HOUR of temptation is not an hour but a Week. Do you see your error here? God's coming wrath is NOT the hour of temptation.

Ahwatukee said:

And as i have said before, if you can show any Scriptures with reveals that all six seals should be included within the seven years, then i will most certainly change it to reflect Scriptures. What? Do you think i should change it to reflect what YOU believe? So show me Scriptures. You say you have done many studies. Therefore something in your studying has made you think that all seven seals should be within the 7 year Tribulation Period, all i am asking is for you to show me the Scriptures that led you to believe that, is that to much to ask? Or that is something you merely believe, and there is no possible way you can change that stance.

Ahwatukee said:

Do you know what kills me, is people saying something is clear in Scriptures, when it is not in Scriptures at all. i have asked you many times in the past to show me these CLEAR Scriptures that teach Jesus comes at the end, To which you have not been able to show one CLEAR SCRIPTURE YET. Strange you say Scriptures are clear that it happens after the 7 bowel, but can't show one clear verse that says or even implies that. Brother, YOUR opinion does not make Scriptures clear. If you say Scriptures are clear on this matter then show it, or are you just blowing smoke circles?

Ahwatukee said:

This is what God told me, and it is TRUE. If you can show any Scriptures that is contrary to that, then you will prove to everybody that i am Fake and God did NOT tell me. But what will we see from you? NOT Scriptures, but we will see many of your interpretations that you have interpreted to be contrary to Him coming down in the middle of Tribulation.

Ahwatukee said:

NO verse teaches that. If you think it does reveal it.

Ahwatukee said:

No verse teaches that either, if you think it does please show the verse that indicates the Holy City comes down AFTER the great white Throne Judgment

Ahwatukee said:

The New Heaven and the New Earth take 7 years to Create. The Holy City comes down with Christ to which Him and the Saints reign over all the kingdoms of the entire World, Kings will bow down to Him. ALL Nations will serve Him whether they want to or not. The 1,000 years on Earth will be like the Garden of Eden wherever the River of Life touches, all of which come out from the New City Jerusalem. After the 7 year Tribulation Period, when all wicked are destroyed by the bowels, the 144,000 children that the first fruits of the Lord, will live and repopulate the Earth in this Garden of Eden for a thousand years. Jesus and we Saints will rule over them during this thousand years. These things are what God told me. If then you can find one verse that is contrary to anything that i have just said then you can prove that i did not talk with God on these matters. But i already know you can't find one verse that is contrary to what i have just said, because God told me these things, and He does not lie. What i say will happen, will happen indeed. And just because your personal beliefs does not agree with it, does not make me a liar. What God told me is TRUE. And it will happen exactly as He told me it will happen.

Ahwatukee said:

If it were contrary to Scriptures, then you surely would have the Scripture immediately listed to back up what you say. But do we see any Scriptures? Just because you say it is contrary to Scriptures does not make it so, if it is contrary to Scriptures then show the Scriptures. How many times do i have to ask you to do this before you understand what i am asking? Show Scriptures that is contrary to what is in the timeline. If you can't, why do you continue to merely say over and over again, that the timeline is contrary to Scriptures, but show no Scriptures.
If there was a Scripture, wouldn't you be the first one to prove me wrong? Yet there are no Scriptures, why is that? Because there aren't any Scriptures that is contrary to the TRUTHS that God told me. That is why.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Bladerunner · Nov 22, 2017

Endoscopy said:

It always amazes me that while theologians have come up with 4 different scenarios about eschatology and discussed them for centuries that people on this forum think their view is the only valid one. When the rapture occurs is inextricably tied to those 4 mutually exclusive concepts and all 4 are Biblical. I'm 73 and started trying to figure it out in my late teens. Became a deacon and elder and attended a class for new deacons and elders in my church and this was part of the discussion. The 4 pastors each adhered to a different view but conceded they might be wrong.. Having on and off for 55 years tried to make a single unassailable version and failed I take the pan view. It will all pan out in the end.

For those of you who vehemently adhere to a specific Biblical view keep in mind there are 3 other Biblical views.

Then from MY POINT of VIEW...They are WRONG!

DiscipleDave · Nov 22, 2017

Endoscopy said:

Are we not ONE with them?

Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

According to your logic, Since the Father and Jesus are ONE, they must be the same entity. That would mean according to the above verse and using your same logic that we are ONE with them, that we must be God. God forbid.

Jesus said we are ONE with them. That does not make us and them one entity.

The Husband and Wife are ONE, does that mean they are ONE person according to your logic?

Is the Father Jesus Christ click HERE to read an article concerning that false doctrine.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Bladerunner · Nov 22, 2017

Endoscopy said:

Not interested in theories....DID you know that theories cannot be proven....NEVER..........BUT by the same token, they cannot be proven false. Hence the reason why they are used especially in the scripture.

The Bible is God's WORD and I accept that. the other three-four-four hundred views most likely leave out God's word or add to it or delete from it or symbolize it or allegorize it resulting in an interpretation based upon the worldviews and/or lifestyles of the interpreter.

DiscipleDave · Nov 22, 2017

Brother Ahwatukee,

i have a question for you.

The following list, please give YOUR interpretation of the order that they will happen in.

1) The Rapture (2nd Coming of Christ)
2) Holy City comes down to Earth
3) Great White Throne Judgment
4) 7 year Tribulation Period
5) 1000 Year Reign of Christ

Also could you describe what the Great White Throne Judgement is about?

Thanks

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Nov 22, 2017

SovereignGrace said:

Amen.

1Jn_5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

How many people who don't understand the Trinity believe this Inspired by God verse? What? They don't believe the Word of God, they must not believe this verse either:

2Ti_3:16 ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If they do not believe one verse, then they will be inclined not to believe many other verses either. Every verse is TRUE, if you believe otherwise, then you do not believe the Word of God, no matter how loud you yell that you do.
All Scriptures are inspired by God, Woe to those who pick and choose which verses they will believe in and which ones they won't.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Bladerunner · Nov 23, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

You left out TWO DDave. The Rapture (of the Church) & The NEW JERUSALEM

We can replace this with your #1

therefore
#1---The Rapture (of the Church)
#2--- 7 year Tribulation Period
#3--- 2nd Coming of Christ
#4--- Holy City comes down to Earth
#5--- 1000 Year Reign of Christ
#6--- Great White Throne Judgment
#7--- The NEW JERUSALEM from 3RD Heaven

Oops there is that Hepatic 7 again......

\\\\

Nehemiah6 · Nov 23, 2017

Bladerunner said:

#4--- Holy City comes down to Earth. This is out of order as well as a duplicate. And #7 is quite satisfactory.

DiscipleDave · Nov 23, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

You keep saying that, yet provide no Scriptures whatsoever to support your false accusation against me. If you did have Scriptures then we would be seeing them. The problem is YOU think what i say is false because it does not line up with what YOU believe, and that is the TRUTH.

Ahwatukee said:

liar. i challenge you to show one post where you posted ONE verse that was indeed contrary to anything i have said on this thread. Know you not that all LIARS shall burn in the lake of fire and brimstone brother (rev 20:8) Repent of your lying and ask Jesus to forgive you of that evil thing and cease to ever do it again. If you think you are not lying, then show the post where you gave me a Scripture that proves something in the timeline is contrary to the Word of God. i know it is contrary to what you think, but you have not yet, even once shown one verse that is contrary to anything that i have said came from God.
And Brother what if i am telling you the TRUTH, that what i teach is what God told me, who are you to argue against God? i have told you that what i teach is what God told me, you have not one time shown one solitary verse that shows anything that i have said is contrary to sound doctrine, and now you get on her saying what you say above that you have shown me Scriptures that proves that what God told me is wrong, LIAR. Repent and cease to falsely accuse people, it is not Godly.
i forgive you for it though, i do, but you really need to repent of lying.

Ahwatukee said:

You have not shown one verse that shows they are a part of God's wrath either.

Ahwatukee said:

Which you have shown not one verse that teaches that it does not.

Ahwatukee said:

The problem here is your interpretation of when the New Heaven and New Earth takes place. The New Heaven and New Earth happens During the 7 year Tribulation Period, YOU think it happens after the 1,000 years. Which you can't show one verse that is clear WHEN the New Earth and New Heaven will happen. YOU only ASSUME it happens at the end of the 1,000 years. i know what God told me, and what He told me is TRUE. The 7 year Tribulation Period is the process of creating the New Earth and New Heaven. During that process of the New Heaven and New Earth being created is when the New City comes down from Heaven. The problem is, your interpretations of WHEN that New Earth and New Heaven happens. And therefore based on your interpretations you think i am wrong and God did not tell me these things. Let me die a horrible painful long suffering incurable disease if i am lying. God told me what is going to happen. Is it my fault you will not hear God? And you can't find one verse that is contrary to what God has told me. ONLY your interpretations contradict what God said to me. What does that say about you? Repent Brother and believe God. Why can't you be like the Bereans, You hear something that you don't believe so you go to the Word of God to see if what that person is saying is TRUE or not True. You don't believe me, NOT because it is contrary to the Word of God but because it is contrary to all your studying, contrary to all your interpretations of end time events. You have altogether failed to understand that God reveals His secrets to His prophets, that only God interprets the Word of God. Any person who thinks they have the authority to interpret the Word of God will be led by satan, who most certainly will help them do what God says they should not do and that is interpret the Word of God.

Ahwatukee said:

You say FACT, which fact is that, show Scriptures. You can't because that FACT you are talking about comes from your mind and not from God.

Ahwatukee said:

OH, so show me one verse that teaches Jesus comes at the end of the seven years, just one if your able to.
OH, so show me one verse that teachers Jesus comes AFTER His wrath has been completed.
Or are you just once again blowing smoke?

Not upset, just waiting for your answers. How many times must i ask for you to show Scriptures, and you provide NONE?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Ahwatukee · Nov 23, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

You keep saying that, yet provide no Scriptures whatsoever to support your false accusation against me. If you did have Scriptures then we would be seeing them. The problem is YOU think what i say is false because it does not line up with what YOU believe, and that is the TRUTH.

liar. i challenge you to show one post where you posted ONE verse that was indeed contrary to anything i have said on this thread. Know you not that all LIARS shall burn in the lake of fire and brimstone brother (rev 20:8) Repent of your lying and ask Jesus to forgive you of that evil thing and cease to ever do it again. If you think you are not lying, then show the post where you gave me a Scripture that proves something in the timeline is contrary to the Word of God. i know it is contrary to what you think, but you have not yet, even once shown one verse that is contrary to anything that i have said came from God.
And Brother what if i am telling you the TRUTH, that what i teach is what God told me, who are you to argue against God? i have told you that what i teach is what God told me, you have not one time shown one solitary verse that shows anything that i have said is contrary to sound doctrine, and now you get on her saying what you say above that you have shown me Scriptures that proves that what God told me is wrong, LIAR. Repent and cease to falsely accuse people, it is not Godly.
i forgive you for it though, i do, but you really need to repent of lying.

You have not shown one verse that shows they are a part of God's wrath either.

Which you have shown not one verse that teaches that it does not.

The problem here is your interpretation of when the New Heaven and New Earth takes place. The New Heaven and New Earth happens During the 7 year Tribulation Period, YOU think it happens after the 1,000 years. Which you can't show one verse that is clear WHEN the New Earth and New Heaven will happen. YOU only ASSUME it happens at the end of the 1,000 years. i know what God told me, and what He told me is TRUE. The 7 year Tribulation Period is the process of creating the New Earth and New Heaven. During that process of the New Heaven and New Earth being created is when the New City comes down from Heaven. The problem is, your interpretations of WHEN that New Earth and New Heaven happens. And therefore based on your interpretations you think i am wrong and God did not tell me these things. Let me die a horrible painful long suffering incurable disease if i am lying. God told me what is going to happen. Is it my fault you will not hear God? And you can't find one verse that is contrary to what God has told me. ONLY your interpretations contradict what God said to me. What does that say about you? Repent Brother and believe God. Why can't you be like the Bereans, You hear something that you don't believe so you go to the Word of God to see if what that person is saying is TRUE or not True. You don't believe me, NOT because it is contrary to the Word of God but because it is contrary to all your studying, contrary to all your interpretations of end time events. You have altogether failed to understand that God reveals His secrets to His prophets, that only God interprets the Word of God. Any person who thinks they have the authority to interpret the Word of God will be led by satan, who most certainly will help them do what God says they should not do and that is interpret the Word of God.

You say FACT, which fact is that, show Scriptures. You can't because that FACT you are talking about comes from your mind and not from God.

OH, so show me one verse that teaches Jesus comes at the end of the seven years, just one if your able to.
OH, so show me one verse that teachers Jesus comes AFTER His wrath has been completed.
Or are you just once again blowing smoke?

Not upset, just waiting for your answers. How many times must i ask for you to show Scriptures, and you provide NONE?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

I provided plenty of scripture and explained it, but you don't see it.

Ahwatukee · Nov 23, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

1) The Gathering of the church/Rapture (Takes place prior to the 2nd coming of Christ)

4) 7 year Tribulation Period

5) 1000 Year Reign of Christ

3) Great White Throne Judgment

2) Holy City comes down to Earth (the new earth, not the present earth)

Also could you describe what the Great White Throne Judgement is about?

Click to expand...

The great white throne judgment will consist of all of the unrighteous dead who have been accumulating in Sheol/Hades from the beginning of the world, which is that place of torment in flame where the rich man was and still is. These are those who will have not been worthy to take part in the first resurrection and because of this the second death will have power over them. They will all be resurrected and will stand before God and will be judged according to everything written in the books.

Regarding the above, the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth to end age (2nd coming) are two separate events.

Gathering of the church = The Lord descending into the air with the dead rising first and then we who are still alive will be changed into our immortal and glorified bodies and caught up with them where according to John 14:1-3, the Lord will take the entire church back to the Father's house where he went to prepare places for us. This event takes place prior to the first seal being opened which initiates God's wrath.

Second Coming = After God's wrath has been completed (after the 7th bowl), the Lord will return to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom with the church following him out of heaven riding on those white horses and wearing her fine linen that she, the bride, will have received at the wedding of the Lamb as revealed in Rev.19:6-8, 14. At that time the beast and false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire and Satan is seized and thrown into the Abyss where he will remain during Christ's thousand year reign.

Ahwatukee · Nov 23, 2017

tanakh said:

Hello tanakh,

Your claim of Israel being Babylon is impossible and here is why:

Mystery, Babylon the great destroyed:

"The music of harpists and musicians, pipers and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again.No worker of any trade will ever be found in you again.
The sound of a millstone will never be heard in you again.
The light of a lamp will never shine in you again.
The voice of bridegroom and bride will never be heard in you again.

Israel inhabited throughout the millennial period until the end:

"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

If Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon as you say and Mystery Babylon is destroyed during the last 3 1/2 so that no one will ever be able to inhabit it again, then how is it that after Satan is released that Gog and Magog surround it? It would infer that there are inhabitants living Jerusalem, which is the camp of God's people, the city that he loves.

Furthermore, the woman of Rev.12 which represents Israel, flees from Jerusalem and the area of Judea as a result of the abomination being set up where she will be cared for 1260 days i.e. that last 3 1/2 years of the seven year period.

Mystery, Babylon the great is not referring to the literal city of Babylon that Nebuchadnezzar ruled, but is "Mystery" Babylon, meaning that this future city is a type of the original Babylon in reference to her pagan practices, which will be practiced in Mystery Babylon, which represents her false religious system, as well as her commerce.

The is only one system that fits the description of mystery Babylon which practices the same practices that originated from original Babylon, such as mother and son worship and queen of heaven worship, to name a few. And she is dressed in purple and scarlet. Hmmm .... I wonder who fits that description?

Bladerunner · Nov 23, 2017

Nehemiah6 said:

OH???pray tell was was duplicate or left out?

Ahwatukee · Nov 23, 2017

Correction to the following:

Hello tanakh,

Your claim of Jerusalem being Babylon is impossible and here is why:

Mystery, Babylon the great destroyed:

"The music of harpists and musicians, pipers and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again.

No worker of any trade will ever be found in you again.

The sound of a millstone will never be heard in you again.

The light of a lamp will never shine in you again.

The voice of bridegroom and bride will never be heard in you again.

Jerusalem inhabited throughout the millennial period until the end:

"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

If Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon as you say and Mystery Babylon is destroyed during the last 3 1/2 years so that no one will ever be able to inhabit it again, then how is it that after Satan is released that Gog and Magog surround it? It would infer that there are inhabitants living Jerusalem, which is the camp of God's people, the city that he loves.

Furthermore, the woman of Rev.12 which represents Israel, flees from Jerusalem and the area of Judea as a result of the abomination being set up where she will be cared for 1260 days i.e. that last 3 1/2 years of the seven year period.

Mystery, Babylon the great, is not referring to the literal city of Babylon that Nebuchadnezzar ruled, but is "Mystery" Babylon, meaning that this future city is a type of the original Babylon in reference to her religious pagan practices, which have been and will be practiced in Mystery Babylon, which represents her false religious system, as well as her commerce.

There is only one system that fits the description of mystery Babylon which practices the same practices that originated from original Babylon, such as mother and son worship and queen of heaven worship, to name a few. And who sits on seven hills and is dressed in purple and scarlet. Hmmm .... I wonder who fits that description?

Bladerunner · Nov 23, 2017

From another one of my post on this thread, I spoke of a Temple coming out of heaven which will happen between the Armageddon and the beginning of the millennium.

The above post particularly the part in highlight was written poorly but according to scripture to be somewhat true. While there are no scriptures that directly states the 'New Holy Temple' actually does come down from heaven, there are scriptures that tell us about the temple, its measurements and its interior design.

The following passages show us that Jesus Himself will make the temple that will be found north of Jerusalem in an area of at least 50 x 50 miles. (This will be the size of the Temple.)

Zechariah 6:11..."11. Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest; 12. And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: 13. Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both."

While it is my conjecture that the temple was already built by Jesus in His wait for all things prophesied to be fulfilled and then when the territory north of Jerusalem was properly prepared for such a big structure, He places it there. (Revelation 20, Isaiah 65, Ezekiel 40-48).

It is also apparent that the earth will be completely destroyed in chapter 21:1-2 and rebuilt without the oceans (seas) that takes up approximately 4/5 of the surface area today. Thus the NEW JERUSALEM here all the saints will live with GOD forever and ever, descend from heaven at this time.

Does the Temple (that Jesus Built) also get destroyed during this time period. The Bible does not tell us or even hint at its disposition in the future after Revelation chapter 21:1-2.

As to that,I offer my apology for the poor choice of wording. It should have read: #4---A NEW HOLY CITY built by Jesus Christ Himself, delivery method unknown.

Notice this prophecy also goes against the Preterist doctrine in that Jesus will set up on the Throne of David Physically on this earth.

Ahwatukee · Nov 23, 2017

Your error is that you don't understand the plan. After the 6th bowl has been poured out, Jesus interjects the following:

"The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

“Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

After the 6th bowl has been poured out Jesus says "Look, I come like a thief" this would demonstrate that he hasn't returned yet, but we do see him returning in Rev.19:11-21 which is after the 7th bowl has been poured out. As further proof that Jesus returns after the seven bowls have been poured out and that they complete God's wrath, see the following:

"I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed."

Jesus returns to the earth after the seven bowls as revealed in Rev.19:11-21, which is a detailed account of the second coming.

Snoozy · Nov 24, 2017

this is why its so important to rightly divide the word of truth or else u will get mixed up in all kinds of false doctrines.
to say that the first seal doesnt start the wrath of God is just odd. the Lamb is opening the seals and the Lamb is Jesus.

Jesus could come at any moment right now guys. believe that

heartofdavid · Nov 24, 2017

Snoozy said:

Exactly.
Billions killed by AC.
Nobody in their right mind is going to think anything but wrath has come to the earth.

The AC recieves power to overcome the church.
Power from heaven.
The entire 7 years is THE GREAT TRIBULATION

The Rapture

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

heartofdavid

Guest