Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
6
0
What happens if one is baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?
They are all one.

What happens if one sins through ignorance or accident after past sins are remitted?
That doesn't happen.
James writes..."[FONT=&quot]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (James 1:14-15)
Without a temptation, lust, enticement, or conception, there is no sin.
It is also written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
No lust---no sin.[/FONT]
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
6
0
There is no sin of ignorance or accident. The Bible clearly teaches sin is a choice that starts with a thought and can be overcome. James says a thought is not sin until you become enticed and carried away by lust.

PJW, If you are trying to state that your spirit is perfect and your flesh and mind are too, you are wrong.
Have you never heard of rebirth?

If you are trying to state that your spirit is perfect, but your mind and flesh are still influenced to Sin and can at times, then you are right.
I can't say that lie.

All the parts you listed as being subject to satan where killed when I was crucified with Christ.
I was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, not oldness of life.
I am a new creature, thanks be to God, and have been freed from service to sin.
I can only serve one master.
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
6
0
BUT IN YOU THERE IS SIN.
I can prove it:
Romans 13:9 (CSBBible)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The commandments, Do not commit adultery; do not murder; do not steal; do not covet; and any other commandment, are summed up by this commandment: Love your neighbor as yourself.


If one of your neighbors goes to bed hungry, you have FAILED TO:
love your neighbor as yourself.
If one of your neighbors is in fianancial difficulty and you do not give him
your savings, you have FAILED TO:
love your neighbor as yourself.
If one of your neighbors is sick and you do not go to his house to ask how
you can help, you have FAILED TO:
love your neighbor as yourself.
If one of your neighbors is in the Hospital and you do not visit him and take care
of his yard until he is better, you have FAILED TO:
love your neighbor as yourself.
If one of your neighbors is in jail and you do not visit him and offer to pay for his
bail and legal fees, you have FAILED TO:
love your neighbor as yourself.
If one of your neighbors asks to borrow money and you make excuses
not to loan it to him, you have FAILED TO:
love your neighbor as yourself.
If one of your neighbors has a car quits working and you do not loan him your
second car or give it to him, you have FAILED TO:
love your neighbor as yourself.
etc., etc., etc. See you sin all the time.
I'll have to wait for the film you must have as evidence against me.
Surely you wouldn't make such accusations without proof?
Or is this a manifestation of your doctrine of sin in Christ?
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
6
0
I agree with this. myself, and a few others constantly get accused of " defending sin ". if you admit truth, you might be called the same.

some on here have little use of truth, they are trying to advance a agenda-based teaching . I have read the Bible through around 20 times. I do not say this to boast, I say this because I understand context, and rightly dividing the Words Of Truth.

I have no agenda, except being as truthful as I can.
Speaking of "truth, Jesus said it could free you from service to sin, in John 8:32-34.
Is that the "truth" you espouse?
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
6
0
There is no defense of sin, if you understand that grace gives you power over it. It does not mean you will ever be sinless or perfect. It just means you are growing each day to keep it from entangling you any more Like Hebrews 12:1-2 says.
You contradict yourself.
If grace gives you power over sin, are we to surmise that sometimes it doesn't?
That doesn't sound like the grace I have experienced.
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
6
0
sekkluud mon....... people will never get tired of boasting about being sinless....... preach against sin if u must but please stop pretending u are sinless. complete delusion u see...... u never think bad thoughts or never leave good undone??????
Why would anyone fight for something that is unobtainable?

Jesus conquered sin while in the flesh.
Those "in Christ" now have every weapon against wickedness that Jesus has.
Use those weapons!
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
6
0
Now you are sounding like a Pharisee, hunting for an excuse to not be obedient, while continuing to feel Holy and Sinless.

The Point is GOD's Standards are higher than any Mortal can KEEP perfectly.
I thank God for allowing us to be reborn as new creatures.
And I thank Him for the ability to remain in the light.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
29,193
113
Why would anyone fight for something that is unobtainable?

Jesus conquered sin while in the flesh.
Those "in Christ" now have every weapon against wickedness that Jesus has.
Use those weapons!
What do you call the weapon used to cure leprosy and raise people from death? How many times have you wielded this weapon? How many people blind from birth have regained their sight when you smeared your saliva mixed with dirt onto their eyes?
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
6
0
W?hat do you call the weapon used to cure leprosy and raise people from death? How many times have you wielded this weapon? How many people blind from birth have regained their sight when you smeared your saliva mixed with dirt onto their eyes
I call those weapons "faith".
I don't want to be accused of "bragging" again.
 
Nov 6, 2017
674
12
0
You contradict yourself.
If grace gives you power over sin, are we to surmise that sometimes it doesn't?
That doesn't sound like the grace I have experienced.
Titus 2:11-14
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, [SUP]12 [/SUP]instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, [SUP]13 [/SUP]looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds

This sounds like Grace is a teacher not a one time event, that makes you are perfect in your flesh, mind, will, emotions and passions. We are made sinless in our Spirit, not our flesh, mind, will, emotions and passions. Grace teaches us to deny sin and not let it have power over us.

You are beating a bad drum here and are very confused. We know God is not a GOD of confusion, but of Peace. Before you go off fully cocked on me I do not need you to correct me or the Truth and neither do others on this thread. You have already hijacked this thread past the OP's intention.

If you want to discuss sinless perfection, start a new thread on it, not hijack another man's thread, with nonsense, having nothing to do with salvation and partial truth of the walk after the new birth.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I think you are simply trying to make hay in the desert. Have a nice day.
That is no problem, I used to live in the High Desert region of Fallon, NV. and it had lots of Hay Fields surrounding it.





 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
When you see a person has 8 posts on 1 page already, with 7 posts in a row, that would be called trolling. This behavior has taken place on several pages of this thread.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I just found this article, to be VERY INFORMATIVE:

How Do Christians Sin in the Light?

Everyone Sins, But True Christians "Sin In The Light"—Learn Why This Is So Important

You Will Never Be Sinless While You Live On Earth




There are actually those who teach that once you become a Christian you will stop sinning and you will soon enter a state of sinless perfection. This is an incredibly unscriptural lie which has hurt many. You can see that it is not true because the Bible makes it quite plain that anyone who denies they're a sinner is a liar: "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us... If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us." (1 John 1:8, 10 NASB).


As a Christian it's important you understand that becoming a believer will never lead you towards becoming perfect. Unfortunately, when you look at other believers it might appear on the surface as though they are nearly perfect, having become more spiritual than where you might be at. Now certainly a believer can live a life which is more Spirit-filled, but the truth is, many of those you might look up to are also struggling with sin just as much as anyone else.

So embrace the reality that it is impossible to become "sinless." It is, however, possible that you can and should "sin less" than you did before you trusted Christ. That is definitely what all Christians should strive to achieve in their walk with the Lord. But you will never be perfect while on this earth, so stop beating yourself up about your constant failings.

The Difference Between Light and Darkness

First John chapter one has encouraged me to understand what's going on in my heart over the years. "This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin." (1 John 1:5-7 NASB).

What an incredible biblical passage. You need to understand this so that you won't be confused about how things work in the spiritual world when it comes to your personal sin.

First, notice that God is Light and in him there is no darkness at all. He represents goodness and holiness (being set apart from evil) and that's what he wants to give us once he has invaded our lives when we're born again. And of course, we want to walk with him in light.

Now notice that evil and good are presented as two opposing concepts and spiritual experiences in this passage. God Word talks about the deeds of darkness and the deeds of light using the opposing symbols of dark and light to represent evil and righteousness. Those who live in darkness don't have the light of God's life shining in their hearts and they cannot come to the Lord while they are in darkness because they simply are unable to see the truth and are blinded by the darkness.

In the same sense, those who are in the light are able to see spiritual good AND evil much more clearly because the light of God's Word shines upon the deeds of darkness, and of course the Holy Spirit's presence in our lives also convicts us of sin, righteousness and judgment (see John 16:8). Someone who is walking in the light can see the deeds of darkness much easier than those who are walking in the darkness because they have a much dimmer understanding of morality. Maybe you've noticed that there isn't much depth perception when you're in physical darkness. That same is true spiritually for those who are living in a world given to darkness and depravity. They have a difficult time seeing evil for what it really is.

Now let's say that someone calls himself a believer, and claims to have fellowship with the Lord, and maybe attends church regularly, but he secretly walks in some very dark sins. This passage proclaims that such a person is a liar. He isn't practicing the truth and therefore he isn't really a believer. If someone is involved in deeds of darkness and they don't see them as being "that bad" then verse six applies to their life.

True Christians don't habitually walk in the darkness. Darkness is a spiritual condition where one is given over to sin and depravity on a regular basis. Note that the passage says those in darkness lie. If someone's deeds are evil they will want to keep their behavior hidden. Not only will they lie to others about their sin, they will likely also lie to themselves, pretending that their behavior really isn't so bad. All of this means they are full of lies and are not true believers. (See also John 3:19).

So if you think you are a believer but you habitually engage in sorted sinful deeds, the passage claims you're living a lie; you're not in the truth. But what if you are a true Christian and you still sin? Verse seven answers that question: "But if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin." (1 John 1:7 NAS).

True Christians walk in light with Christ. We have fellowship with him and with one another, and then notice the all important final phrase: "and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin." When you walk in the light with Christ, you still sin, but the blood of Jesus cleanses you from all sin.

Now these two verses present an interesting paradox. Those walking in the darkness and those walking in the light—both sin. But only the believer who is in the light is cleansed by the blood of Jesus. So what makes the difference?

The man who habitually walks in darkness has really not changed. He doesn't see sin as being so evil and he hasn't really changes his mind about it. Therefore, he is still under the curse of his sin and he will not experience God's forgiveness or cleansing.

But the man who habitually walks in the light does know good from evil. He agrees with the Lord about the depraved nature of his sin. Yes, he does occasionally fall to temptation, but he sees sin for what it is and he hates it. He endeavors to fellowship with the Lord and other Christians and he continues to fight any impure desires. This man receives God's cleansing on a daily, ongoing basis.

Whenever a Christian backslides and slips back into sin, he will often be miserable. I have found over the years that I'm not a very good sinner. Whenever I have attempted to follow some course of action that I know is wrong, I always have a powerful nagging sense that I'm not where I should be. I feel guilty and uneasy as if the sky is going to fall down on top of me. I don't make a very good sinner, because I sin "in the light."

If you are in the light, you see your sin much more clearly than anyone who is walking in darkness. On the surface you might even appear to be "one of them" but deep down in your heart of hearts you know that you belong to the Lord and so it is only a matter of time before you return to the fold. A friend of mine used to say, "the sheep will eventually return to the fold, and the pigs will eventually return to the sty." So true.

Non believers don't have much of a dislike for sin. Because Christ fully enthroned within their hearts, when they stop going to church and begin to do what Christians call "backsliding" by falling back into their former sinful activities, they actually feel pretty good about it. Why? Because in many ways, they have "come home". They don't really belong in the Church and they don't really enjoy being around believers because they would rather laugh with the sinners then cry with the saints, because as Billy Joel put it, they think that "Only the Good Die Young."

You can likely tell if you're really a true believer just by this. If you have a strong sense of guilt in the midst of your sin, and are miserable when you wallow in it, dreading how God feels about your behavior, you're more likely to be one of God's true sheep. But if you end up just loving that sin which you've jumped back into, you're probably just a goat not a sheep.

Are ALL Your Sins Forgiven?

Probably the most important verse in First John chapter one is verse nine. This is one that you should memorize if you haven't already. It says: "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9 NASB).

You need to understand this verse so you're not confused about what Christ did for you on the cross. Let me explain that when you repented of your sins and turned to Christ for salvation, he forgave ALL of your sins. The Bible tells us that he forgives our sin as far as the east is from the west (Psalm 103:12). God remembers our lawless acts and deeds no more (Hebrews 8:12; 10:17). That's the way God forgives sin.

All means ALL. So that must also mean that he forgives the sins we have committed both in the past, up to the present and on strong>into the future.. If God's forgiveness doesn't include the sins we haven't yet committed—and we needed to confess them all one by one—then we would surely all go to hell. Because we don't even know all of the bad things we have done, said or even thought.

The Roman Catholic doctrine of the need for a confessional booth becomes an incredible tyranny. There is absolutely no way you could even remember all your sins, let alone begin list them all out to a priest. And if we are only absolved for what we have confessed (sin by sin) then we are simply all lost. Praise God that this is NOT what God's Word teaches.

First John 1:9 has been called the Christian's "bar of soap" because it instructs us to cleanse our hearts on a regular basis through our ongoing confession. That confession is between us an our High Priest Jesus Christ. We don't have to go through any human intermediary.

Now the word used for "confession" in this verse has in the Greek a continual action, process or habit of life. In other words, we are to keep on confessing each time we discover that we have sinned again. Now when we confess to the Lord, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins. The word for "forgiveness" in this verse indicates we have done nothing to deserve the forgiveness. And the action of this forgiveness in the Greek is very interesting. It is an action that is conceived of as a single action or act. In other words, we keep confessing but he forgives us just once. And that forgiveness happens when we trust Christ at the beginning of our Christian lives.

Also we should notice that the cleansing we receive from all our unrighteousness is again a single action. So when the Lord cleanses us it is not dependent so much upon our confession as it is upon our response to Christ when we trusted him for our salvation.

So use these verses to stay in the light and keep confessing your sins so that you can maintain a sense of cleansing and keep your life moving ahead towards fulfilling the Lord's Great Commission of winning your family and friends to Jesus.



How Do Christians Sin in the Light?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
13,522
113
What happens if one sins through ignorance or accident after past sins are remitted?
That doesn't happen.
is it sin to falsely represent scripture?
not just by interpretation - but to literally say that scripture says something it doesn't?
that would be lying, right?
whether purposefully or through ignorance or accident, it's still a lie, yes?
and to lie is to sin?

asking because you have done that more than once in this very thread.

i think that leaves you in one of two positions:

(1) attesting that to lie is not to sin ((so you can keep your air of being perfect in all your ways)) - which puts you squarely in conflict with scripture

(2) lying right now - having lied either intentionally, accidentally or through ignorance earlier - lying again now either intentionally, accidentally or through ignorance about whether this is possible, and thereby also having lied throughout your interaction here by professing that '
it never happens to you' because 'it can't possibly'
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
13,522
113
we're not trying to go around accusing & judging people - we're just establishing the truth

we all need Him, every hour, and we will not cease to have need of Him

 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,439
113
God is not blind.
Those who hate Him are not righteous.
God gives us the means to change what we used to be.
Repentance from sin.
Death and burial of the old man.
Rebirth of God's seed.
The Holy Spirit to guide us.

The unrighteous want none of that, as it would lead to a righteous man in service to God.
Evening.

How would you define hating God?
What does it entail.

Would you say that those who have placed their faith in Jesus yet acknowledge they are not sinless hate God?
If so why so?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,439
113
Are you personally familiar with that Houston church?
I tried to look them up on the computer, but failed.

I know we once had a group there, but we lost contact with them.
Why did you lose contact with them?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,439
113
May God bless you for your searches, though I am afraid anything you find on-line will not be from Godly sources.
Do you mean about your church?
Is so why is there nothing online about the chruch you go to?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,439
113
Salvation from service to sin.
Jesus paid the price for my past sins and enabled me to remain faithful to Him.
So to you Jesus only paid the price for your past sins.
When did he pay he price for past sins?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,439
113
Yep.
The Word was God, and manifested in the flesh as Jesus.
The Father was not manifested in the flesh.
The Word was.
Do you believe in the trinity?

John 1:1


The Gospel According to
JOHN
Chapter 1
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

If the word was with God and the word was God and Jesus is the word did not God come in the flesh?