Not By Works
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Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
'Sinless perfectionism' cannot withstand what Paul says of himself, he had not yet attained physical, mental and moral perfection.
'Sinless perfectionism' cannot withstand what Paul says of himself, he had not yet attained physical, mental and moral perfection.
Peter said..."[FONT="]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
And that was well before 1 Thes' was written.
Even earlier, it is written..."[/FONT][FONT="]And were baptized of him in Jordan, [/FONT]confessing their sins." (Matt 3:6)
And that was well before 1 Thes' was written.
Even earlier, it is written..."[/FONT][FONT="]And were baptized of him in Jordan, [/FONT]confessing their sins." (Matt 3:6)
Romans 14:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
We are those who believe it is co-equally honorable to Worship any day of the Week, or every day of the Week. AND we are fully coninced that worship is accepted by GOD. The SABBATH COMMAND WAS A SIGN FOR THE COVENANT BETWEEN GOD AND ISRAEL.
Hebrews 8:6-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But Jesus has now obtained a superior ministry, and to that degree He is the mediator of a better covenant, which has been legally enacted on better promises.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For if that first ⌊covenant⌋ had been faultless, there would have been no occasion for a second one.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But finding fault with His people, He says: Look, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not like the covenant that I made with their ancestors on the day I took them by their hands to lead them out of the land of Egypt. I disregarded them, says the Lord, because they did not continue in My covenant.
Re: baptism post 205 p. 11
Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed
"In 1 John 1, John is addressing two kinds of men: some walk in the light and some in the darkness.
If you are walking in darkness, you cannot say you "have no sin".
But if you walk in the light, which was earlier said to be God, you can say you "have no sin".
In the light, all our sins have been washed away.
Thanks be to God!"
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/157961-baptism-11.html
A review on this post founded in 1 John 1:7 is another major blunder to those who adhere, claim and teaches sinless perfectionism. Let’s see what the scripture of truth says:
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Is true that in the light as the post says, all our sin have been washed away? Does the passage really tell us that being in the light is a means for the washing away of our sins? An error leads to another error.
1) The passage is clear that the cleansing of our sins is through the blood of Jesus. To shun the truth of Christ’s blood is to deny its efficacy.
2) The Bible no doubt, that the blood of Christ washed us from our sins. In one point in time when Christ poured His blood as sacrificial lamb.
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
3) Being in the light is simply walking in fellowship with him. Together or along with others who are walking in the light is to have fellowship with one another, thus practical not necessarily positional.
4) “Cleanseth” is in
Tense: Present
Mood: Indicative
Voice: Active
Indicative Mood
The indicative mood is a statement of fact or an actual occurrence from the writer's or speaker's perspective… It may be action occurring in past, present, or future time.
Greek Verbs (Shorter Definitions)
It is indicative mood which means the action may occur in the past, present or future time indicating the ‘blood’ of Jesus is available and efficacious all the time.
It is efficacious to the sinner believing in Christ for his salvation. It is also efficacious to all saints who some time may falter in their Christian walk yet confessing their sins, that the blood of Jesus ‘cleanseth’ (present) them of their sins and will restore them in a good fellowship with God and one to another.
"In 1 John 1, John is addressing two kinds of men: some walk in the light and some in the darkness.
If you are walking in darkness, you cannot say you "have no sin".
But if you walk in the light, which was earlier said to be God, you can say you "have no sin".
In the light, all our sins have been washed away.
Thanks be to God!"
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/157961-baptism-11.html
A review on this post founded in 1 John 1:7 is another major blunder to those who adhere, claim and teaches sinless perfectionism. Let’s see what the scripture of truth says:
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Is true that in the light as the post says, all our sin have been washed away? Does the passage really tell us that being in the light is a means for the washing away of our sins? An error leads to another error.
1) The passage is clear that the cleansing of our sins is through the blood of Jesus. To shun the truth of Christ’s blood is to deny its efficacy.
2) The Bible no doubt, that the blood of Christ washed us from our sins. In one point in time when Christ poured His blood as sacrificial lamb.
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
3) Being in the light is simply walking in fellowship with him. Together or along with others who are walking in the light is to have fellowship with one another, thus practical not necessarily positional.
4) “Cleanseth” is in
Tense: Present
Mood: Indicative
Voice: Active
Indicative Mood
The indicative mood is a statement of fact or an actual occurrence from the writer's or speaker's perspective… It may be action occurring in past, present, or future time.
Greek Verbs (Shorter Definitions)
It is indicative mood which means the action may occur in the past, present or future time indicating the ‘blood’ of Jesus is available and efficacious all the time.
It is efficacious to the sinner believing in Christ for his salvation. It is also efficacious to all saints who some time may falter in their Christian walk yet confessing their sins, that the blood of Jesus ‘cleanseth’ (present) them of their sins and will restore them in a good fellowship with God and one to another.
Amen! Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel under the Old Covenant that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant. Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath, they aren’t truly "keeping the Sabbath." To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament would involve compliance with regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced. If Sabbath-day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). These were commanded by God to the sons of Israel.
If the seventh-day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person say he keeps a certain law when he keeps only part of it?
If the Sabbath-day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people. Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh-day Adventist church? Or the Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under the Mosaic regulations.
The moral precepts of the Ten Commandments are repeated under the New Covenant, but not the command to keep the Sabbath.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
Here is an article on how Sabbatarians twist scripture below:
How Sabbatarians twist scripture: What you must know to refute them.
Amazing Facts about the Sabbath/Questions Sabbatarians don't like to be asked:
Questions Sabbatarians don't like to be asked!
Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath, they aren’t truly "keeping the Sabbath." To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament would involve compliance with regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced. If Sabbath-day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). These were commanded by God to the sons of Israel.
If the seventh-day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person say he keeps a certain law when he keeps only part of it?
If the Sabbath-day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people. Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh-day Adventist church? Or the Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under the Mosaic regulations.
The moral precepts of the Ten Commandments are repeated under the New Covenant, but not the command to keep the Sabbath.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
Here is an article on how Sabbatarians twist scripture below:
How Sabbatarians twist scripture: What you must know to refute them.
Amazing Facts about the Sabbath/Questions Sabbatarians don't like to be asked:
Questions Sabbatarians don't like to be asked!
Re: baptism post 205 p. 11
Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed
"In 1 John 1, John is addressing two kinds of men: some walk in the light and some in the darkness.
If you are walking in darkness, you cannot say you "have no sin".
But if you walk in the light, which was earlier said to be God, you can say you "have no sin".
In the light, all our sins have been washed away.
Thanks be to God!"
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/157961-baptism-11.html
A review on this post founded in 1 John 1:7 is another major blunder to those who adhere, claim and teaches sinless perfectionism. Let’s see what the scripture of truth says:
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Is true that in the light as the post says, all our sin have been washed away? Does the passage really tell us that being in the light is a means for the washing away of our sins? An error leads to another error.
1) The passage is clear that the cleansing of our sins is through the blood of Jesus. To shun the truth of Christ’s blood is to deny its efficacy.
2) The Bible no doubt, that the blood of Christ washed us from our sins. In one point in time when Christ poured His blood as sacrificial lamb.
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
3) Being in the light is simply walking in fellowship with him. Together or along with others who are walking in the light is to have fellowship with one another, thus practical not necessarily positional.
4) “Cleanseth” is in
Tense: Present
Mood: Indicative
Voice: Active
Indicative Mood
The indicative mood is a statement of fact or an actual occurrence from the writer's or speaker's perspective… It may be action occurring in past, present, or future time.
Greek Verbs (Shorter Definitions)
It is indicative mood which means the action may occur in the past, present or future time indicating the ‘blood’ of Jesus is available and efficacious all the time.
It is efficacious to the sinner believing in Christ for his salvation. It is also efficacious to all saints who some time may falter in their Christian walk yet confessing their sins, that the blood of Jesus ‘cleanseth’ (present) them of their sins and will restore them in a good fellowship with God and one to another.
"In 1 John 1, John is addressing two kinds of men: some walk in the light and some in the darkness.
If you are walking in darkness, you cannot say you "have no sin".
But if you walk in the light, which was earlier said to be God, you can say you "have no sin".
In the light, all our sins have been washed away.
Thanks be to God!"
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/157961-baptism-11.html
A review on this post founded in 1 John 1:7 is another major blunder to those who adhere, claim and teaches sinless perfectionism. Let’s see what the scripture of truth says:
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Is true that in the light as the post says, all our sin have been washed away? Does the passage really tell us that being in the light is a means for the washing away of our sins? An error leads to another error.
1) The passage is clear that the cleansing of our sins is through the blood of Jesus. To shun the truth of Christ’s blood is to deny its efficacy.
2) The Bible no doubt, that the blood of Christ washed us from our sins. In one point in time when Christ poured His blood as sacrificial lamb.
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
3) Being in the light is simply walking in fellowship with him. Together or along with others who are walking in the light is to have fellowship with one another, thus practical not necessarily positional.
4) “Cleanseth” is in
Tense: Present
Mood: Indicative
Voice: Active
Indicative Mood
The indicative mood is a statement of fact or an actual occurrence from the writer's or speaker's perspective… It may be action occurring in past, present, or future time.
Greek Verbs (Shorter Definitions)
It is indicative mood which means the action may occur in the past, present or future time indicating the ‘blood’ of Jesus is available and efficacious all the time.
It is efficacious to the sinner believing in Christ for his salvation. It is also efficacious to all saints who some time may falter in their Christian walk yet confessing their sins, that the blood of Jesus ‘cleanseth’ (present) them of their sins and will restore them in a good fellowship with God and one to another.
whoa, please don't tell her that. please don't say that to anyone, but i ask in this instance because i love her!
there is NO work man can do to merit God's salvation. full stop!
God only accepts perfection; He has every right to, as Perfect and Holy God.
no one's works are perfect, thus NO ONE can merit what only God can give.
i heard a young man ask a preacher if in failing to love God with ALL our heart, ALL our strength and ALL our mind means we're actually sinning every moment of the day.
the preacher smiled and said, yes.
so don't lower the bar of God's perfect standard to the point of our own performance. we fall short of it.
thank God for the redemption that is found in Christ.
there is NO work man can do to merit God's salvation. full stop!
God only accepts perfection; He has every right to, as Perfect and Holy God.
no one's works are perfect, thus NO ONE can merit what only God can give.
i heard a young man ask a preacher if in failing to love God with ALL our heart, ALL our strength and ALL our mind means we're actually sinning every moment of the day.
the preacher smiled and said, yes.
so don't lower the bar of God's perfect standard to the point of our own performance. we fall short of it.
thank God for the redemption that is found in Christ.
loveme, you asked me yesterday about the sheep and the goats? and i overlooked it, i apologize. 
Jn 10
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. (v 1-6)
I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep (v 14-15)
there's that word 'know'. the Lord Jesus knows His own, and calls them by name and they follow Him.
hence, to be told, "I never knew you" means that person was never a sheep!
Jn 10
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. (v 1-6)
I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep (v 14-15)
there's that word 'know'. the Lord Jesus knows His own, and calls them by name and they follow Him.
hence, to be told, "I never knew you" means that person was never a sheep!
loveme, you asked me yesterday about the sheep and the goats? and i overlooked it, i apologize.
Jn 10
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. (v 1-6)
I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep (v 14-15)
there's that word 'know'. the Lord Jesus knows His own, and calls them by name and they follow Him.
hence, to be told, "I never knew you" means that person was never a sheep!
Jn 10
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. (v 1-6)
I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep (v 14-15)
there's that word 'know'. the Lord Jesus knows His own, and calls them by name and they follow Him.
hence, to be told, "I never knew you" means that person was never a sheep!
Actually what you have said here is not true at all. You are making a false argument that says that the 10 commandments are repeated in the New Testament except the Sabbath; your conclusion is that because it is not repeated in the NT then it must be Abolished. This is despite there is not one scripture in the NT that says God’s 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. Your premise has already been defeated before we start because there is not one scripture in the NT that says God’s 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment has been Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.
This has already been defeated above because there is not one scripture in the NT that says God’s 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment has been Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day but let’s have a look at what you have written……………………….
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
Exodus 20:3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Acts 14:15
And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
Doesn’t seem to be the same to me somehow? Paul was preaching to the Gentiles…….
WRONG; I will help you out Matthew 22:36-40 would have been a better scripture to use to love the Lord your God with all your heart… but of course it says on these two commandments hang ALL the Law and the prophets..
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21 ………….. Yes agree
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
James 5:12
But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
This is talking about making an oath and swearing by things in heaven or earth not taking the Lord’s name is vain. In fact there is no scripture in the NT that commands anyone about taking God’s name in vain. Does that mean we are free to take God’s name in vain? (Obviously not it is sin to do so)
WRONG
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
Well this is not true as already shown above and linked here Here is just a few scriptures linked here if anyone is interested on what Colossians 2:14-17 is talking about?
This also disregards Hebrews Chapter 4; Not to mention all the scriptures about Jesus teaching us it is ok to do good on the Sabbath as well as the example of Jesus and the Apostles keeping the Sabbath Holy and obeying God’s commandment…..
What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?
1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)
WRONG
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2 ……………………..YES Agree
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15………………………. YES Agree
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10……….YES Agree
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28……………………Yes Agree
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10…… YES Agree
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3……………………Yes Agree
Well there you go the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment is indeed repeated in the NT. There is no mention of the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] commandment not to take the Lords name is vain but that certainly does not mean we are free to take God’s name in vain does it? Even though your argument was already shown to be false there is no credibility in the scriptures you quote in support of what your saying.
QUOTE=mailmandan;3336363] Here is an article on how Sabbatarians twist scripture below:
How Sabbatarians twist scripture: What you must know to refute them.
Amazing Facts about the Sabbath/Questions Sabbatarians don't like to be asked:
Questions Sabbatarians don't like to be asked![/QUOTE]
Beware of those that point man to the word of man and the word of website over the Word of God. If the blind shall lead the blind they shall both fall into a ditch. Who can know the Word of God when there is no Spirit to lead them because they receive not the love of the truth, God shall send them strong delusions that they should believe a lie....
Who should be believe and follow the teachings of man or the Word of God?
Only God’s Word is true.
This has already been defeated above because there is not one scripture in the NT that says God’s 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment has been Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day but let’s have a look at what you have written……………………….
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
Exodus 20:3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Acts 14:15
And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
Doesn’t seem to be the same to me somehow? Paul was preaching to the Gentiles…….
WRONG; I will help you out Matthew 22:36-40 would have been a better scripture to use to love the Lord your God with all your heart… but of course it says on these two commandments hang ALL the Law and the prophets..
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21 ………….. Yes agree
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
James 5:12
But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
This is talking about making an oath and swearing by things in heaven or earth not taking the Lord’s name is vain. In fact there is no scripture in the NT that commands anyone about taking God’s name in vain. Does that mean we are free to take God’s name in vain? (Obviously not it is sin to do so)
WRONG
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
Well this is not true as already shown above and linked here Here is just a few scriptures linked here if anyone is interested on what Colossians 2:14-17 is talking about?
This also disregards Hebrews Chapter 4; Not to mention all the scriptures about Jesus teaching us it is ok to do good on the Sabbath as well as the example of Jesus and the Apostles keeping the Sabbath Holy and obeying God’s commandment…..
What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?
1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)
WRONG
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2 ……………………..YES Agree
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15………………………. YES Agree
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10……….YES Agree
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28……………………Yes Agree
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10…… YES Agree
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3……………………Yes Agree
Well there you go the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment is indeed repeated in the NT. There is no mention of the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] commandment not to take the Lords name is vain but that certainly does not mean we are free to take God’s name in vain does it? Even though your argument was already shown to be false there is no credibility in the scriptures you quote in support of what your saying.
QUOTE=mailmandan;3336363] Here is an article on how Sabbatarians twist scripture below:
How Sabbatarians twist scripture: What you must know to refute them.
Amazing Facts about the Sabbath/Questions Sabbatarians don't like to be asked:
Questions Sabbatarians don't like to be asked![/QUOTE]
Beware of those that point man to the word of man and the word of website over the Word of God. If the blind shall lead the blind they shall both fall into a ditch. Who can know the Word of God when there is no Spirit to lead them because they receive not the love of the truth, God shall send them strong delusions that they should believe a lie....
Who should be believe and follow the teachings of man or the Word of God?
Only God’s Word is true.
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Did you know that under the Mosaic law (laws of Moses) besides the 4th commandment of the weekly Sabbath there were other New Moon and special annual Sabbaths that could fall on any day of the week? these were also Holy convocations that were connected to the Jewish annual festivals that no work was allowed and meat and drink sin offering's were required as part of these annual fests. This is what Col 2:14-17; Eph 2 and Romans 14 are all referring to.
There is over 200+ scriptures from God’s Word linking Old and New Testament scriptures that disagree with your interpretation of 2 verses in Colossians 2.
Here is just a few scriptures linked here if anyone is interested on what Colossians 2:14-17 is talking about?
Happy to share the rest of them if you want just let me know?
It is clear you do not understand the difference and purpose of God’s Law and the Mosaic laws which were shadows of things to come pointing to Jesus. The scriptures you quoted are not binding on Christian as they were part of the Mosaic law but the 4th commandment of God's Law is one of the 10 and is the standard of the Old and New Covenants and the Judgement to come and is indeed binding on all just as all the other commandments (James 2:8-12).
Let’s look at what God’s Word says……………………………..
What is the difference and roles of God's Law (10 commandments) and the laws of Moses .................................
(1) God’s Law (10 commandments)
Purpose; reveals what sin and righteousness (right doing) is and the describes the penalty for sin (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23). It was never a cure for sin. But it was the work of God which is forever and the foundation of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the Judgement to come. (Ex 32:16; Ex 31:18; 31:18; Ex 20:1-22; Deut 10:5; Rom 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Rom 6:23; Heb 7:19; Ecc 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1John 3:4, Acts 17:31; Ps 111:7-8; Rev 12:17; 14:12; 22:14; 1 John 3:5-8; 1 John 2:3-4; Ecc 3:14)
(2) The laws of Moses (Levitical, ceremonial, sacrificial)
Purpose; was the prescriptive cure for sin with all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, burnt offerings for sin, annual feast days foretelling the plan of salvation which were connected to Feast days with New Moon sabbaths, food and drink offerings and other Holy days. These where all types pointing to Jesus and the plan of salvation and provided a cure for sin through animal sacrifice and food and drink offerings and yearly sin atonement's for God’s people. (Lev 1:1-13; Lev 23:1-44; Num 28:1-31; 29:1-40; Deut 24:10-11; Ex 24:3; Deut 31:24-26; Col 2:16-16; Heb 10:1; Eph 2:14-15; Lev 4; 5; 6; Heb 4:14; 9;10; John 1:29; not exhaustive there are many more).
Why were the ceremonial laws of Moses (handwriting of ordinances) nailed to the cross and shadows of things to come......
Jesus was our true sacrifice for our sins and the saviour of the world that the ceremonial laws of Moses all pointed to. When Jesus came and died the old Covenant laws of Moses that pointed to Jesus and the plan of salvation was fulfilled (John 1:29; 36; Rev 5:6; 1Cor 5:6-7; Heb 8:2-13; 9:1-28). Jesus is our true Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and our sacrifice for our sins. It is our sins as well as the ceremonial laws of Moses that were nailed to the cross at the death of Jesus (Colossians 2:14; Ephesians 2:15; John 3:16).
God's Law is forever and the standard of the Old and New Covenants and the Judgement to come.....
The Law of God (10 commandments) is the work of God (Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Psalms 19:7). It is the very foundation of the Old and New Covenants (Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12). God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Exodus 20:1-22). Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Psalms 111:7-8, Revelation 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4 etc.). The Law of God reveals sin to us so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and the character of God and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood (Galatians 3:24; Revelation 1:5). '
In the New Covenant; God writes His Law in our hearts so that we become like him and we follow him because we love him (Heb 8:10-12) LOVE is the fulfilling (doing) of God's Law (Romans 13:10). This is why Jesus says to those that love him If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15). He that says I know him and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4) Obedience to God’s Law is the fruit of faith that works by love and fulfills God's Law in us who walk by faith and not by sight and walking in God's Spirit one does not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Faith in God's Word is the power of God unto salvation. Salvation is by faith alone, it is the great gift of God to those who walk in the Spirit who have faith in the Word of creation to live a life of Godliness and Holiness. If the Son shall make you free you shall be free indeed...... Salvation is from sin not in sin... If we break one of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them (James 2:8-12). Please friend do not take my word for it please pray and ask God and check the scriptures provided here to see if it is true or not for yourself....
So yep we are not under the Mosaic laws that were shadows of things to come but God's Law (10 commandments) are forever and the standard of what sin is and righteousness (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; Psalms 119:172; Ecclesiastes 3:14).
In times of ignorance God winks at but now commands all men everywhere to repent. Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead (Acts 17:30-31).
Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of men that has deceived many to forsake the 4th commandment. Jesus says if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
Who should we follow the traditions and teachings of men that break the commandments of God or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Word of God or the teachings or man?
They do but not according to your interpretation of it you do not know the difference and purpose of God’s Law and the Mosaic laws that where shadows pointing to Jesus as shown through God’s Word above.
Who should we believe the teachings of man or the Word of God?
There is over 200+ scriptures from God’s Word linking Old and New Testament scriptures that disagree with your interpretation of 2 verses in Colossians 2.
Here is just a few scriptures linked here if anyone is interested on what Colossians 2:14-17 is talking about?
Happy to share the rest of them if you want just let me know?
It is clear you do not understand the difference and purpose of God’s Law and the Mosaic laws which were shadows of things to come pointing to Jesus. The scriptures you quoted are not binding on Christian as they were part of the Mosaic law but the 4th commandment of God's Law is one of the 10 and is the standard of the Old and New Covenants and the Judgement to come and is indeed binding on all just as all the other commandments (James 2:8-12).
Let’s look at what God’s Word says……………………………..
What is the difference and roles of God's Law (10 commandments) and the laws of Moses .................................
(1) God’s Law (10 commandments)
Purpose; reveals what sin and righteousness (right doing) is and the describes the penalty for sin (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23). It was never a cure for sin. But it was the work of God which is forever and the foundation of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the Judgement to come. (Ex 32:16; Ex 31:18; 31:18; Ex 20:1-22; Deut 10:5; Rom 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Rom 6:23; Heb 7:19; Ecc 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1John 3:4, Acts 17:31; Ps 111:7-8; Rev 12:17; 14:12; 22:14; 1 John 3:5-8; 1 John 2:3-4; Ecc 3:14)
(2) The laws of Moses (Levitical, ceremonial, sacrificial)
Purpose; was the prescriptive cure for sin with all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, burnt offerings for sin, annual feast days foretelling the plan of salvation which were connected to Feast days with New Moon sabbaths, food and drink offerings and other Holy days. These where all types pointing to Jesus and the plan of salvation and provided a cure for sin through animal sacrifice and food and drink offerings and yearly sin atonement's for God’s people. (Lev 1:1-13; Lev 23:1-44; Num 28:1-31; 29:1-40; Deut 24:10-11; Ex 24:3; Deut 31:24-26; Col 2:16-16; Heb 10:1; Eph 2:14-15; Lev 4; 5; 6; Heb 4:14; 9;10; John 1:29; not exhaustive there are many more).
Why were the ceremonial laws of Moses (handwriting of ordinances) nailed to the cross and shadows of things to come......
Jesus was our true sacrifice for our sins and the saviour of the world that the ceremonial laws of Moses all pointed to. When Jesus came and died the old Covenant laws of Moses that pointed to Jesus and the plan of salvation was fulfilled (John 1:29; 36; Rev 5:6; 1Cor 5:6-7; Heb 8:2-13; 9:1-28). Jesus is our true Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and our sacrifice for our sins. It is our sins as well as the ceremonial laws of Moses that were nailed to the cross at the death of Jesus (Colossians 2:14; Ephesians 2:15; John 3:16).
God's Law is forever and the standard of the Old and New Covenants and the Judgement to come.....
The Law of God (10 commandments) is the work of God (Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Psalms 19:7). It is the very foundation of the Old and New Covenants (Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12). God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Exodus 20:1-22). Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Psalms 111:7-8, Revelation 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4 etc.). The Law of God reveals sin to us so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and the character of God and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood (Galatians 3:24; Revelation 1:5). '
In the New Covenant; God writes His Law in our hearts so that we become like him and we follow him because we love him (Heb 8:10-12) LOVE is the fulfilling (doing) of God's Law (Romans 13:10). This is why Jesus says to those that love him If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15). He that says I know him and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4) Obedience to God’s Law is the fruit of faith that works by love and fulfills God's Law in us who walk by faith and not by sight and walking in God's Spirit one does not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Faith in God's Word is the power of God unto salvation. Salvation is by faith alone, it is the great gift of God to those who walk in the Spirit who have faith in the Word of creation to live a life of Godliness and Holiness. If the Son shall make you free you shall be free indeed...... Salvation is from sin not in sin... If we break one of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them (James 2:8-12). Please friend do not take my word for it please pray and ask God and check the scriptures provided here to see if it is true or not for yourself....
So yep we are not under the Mosaic laws that were shadows of things to come but God's Law (10 commandments) are forever and the standard of what sin is and righteousness (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; Psalms 119:172; Ecclesiastes 3:14).
In times of ignorance God winks at but now commands all men everywhere to repent. Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead (Acts 17:30-31).
Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of men that has deceived many to forsake the 4th commandment. Jesus says if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
Who should we follow the traditions and teachings of men that break the commandments of God or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Word of God or the teachings or man?
They do but not according to your interpretation of it you do not know the difference and purpose of God’s Law and the Mosaic laws that where shadows pointing to Jesus as shown through God’s Word above.
Who should we believe the teachings of man or the Word of God?
should we read things in context, and read the Gospels as books and the letters as letters. beware of anyone who makes statements and then just plucks out verses to back up that statement. this is miss use of God's Word. this is trying to control how things are seen, instead of being clear and truthful.
Could you explain to this thread what these verses mean to you, if you have not been crucified or died and raised with Christ?
Galatians 2:15-21
[SUP]16 [/SUP]nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! [SUP]18 [/SUP]For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. [SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
Romans 6:1-23
6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? [SUP]2 [/SUP]May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, [SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; [SUP]7 [/SUP]for he who has died is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, [SUP]9 [/SUP]knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! [SUP]16 [/SUP]Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? [SUP]17 [/SUP]But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, [SUP]18 [/SUP]and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. [SUP]19 [/SUP]I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Galatians 2:15-21
[SUP]16 [/SUP]nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! [SUP]18 [/SUP]For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. [SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
Romans 6:1-23
6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? [SUP]2 [/SUP]May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, [SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; [SUP]7 [/SUP]for he who has died is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, [SUP]9 [/SUP]knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! [SUP]16 [/SUP]Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? [SUP]17 [/SUP]But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, [SUP]18 [/SUP]and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. [SUP]19 [/SUP]I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
There is no sin of ignorance or accident. The Bible clearly teaches sin is a choice that starts with a thought and can be overcome. James says a thought is not sin until you become enticed and carried away by lust.
Eve chose to sin:
Genesis 3
Cain chose to sin:
Genesis 4:6-7
David chose to sin:
2 Samuel 11
James 1:13-16
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
Romans 14:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.
Romans tell us that whatever violates our personal faith/conviction is sin to us. If being a moderate drinker of beer and wine all the time does not violate your faith or conviction and you are it is OK to drink by the Holy Spirit, than that is not sin to you. It could be to others based on their personal faith, conviction and if the Holy Spirit told them NOT TO Drink.
James 4:17
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.
James tells us very plainly that sin is doing something willfully you know is wrong.
David and Bathsheba fit here.
Had David looked at Bathsheba and not let lust be born in his heart, he would not have sinned, even by looking at her taking a bath.
This truth does not make us perfect as PJW is trying to say. It means after we become a new man, grace becomes our teacher, teaching us to have power over sin and we are not helpless over it any longer. We will mess up and still sin, but sin should not have dominion over us because we renew our minds and grace then becomes our teacher, teaching us to deny anything ungodly.
Titus 2:11-14
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, [SUP]12 [/SUP]instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, [SUP]13 [/SUP]looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
PJW, If you are trying to state that your spirit is perfect and your flesh and mind are to, you are wrong.
If you are trying to state that your spirit is perfect, but your mind and flesh are still influenced to Sin and can at times, then you are right.
Eve chose to sin:
Genesis 3
Cain chose to sin:
Genesis 4:6-7
David chose to sin:
2 Samuel 11
James 1:13-16
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
Romans 14:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.
Romans tell us that whatever violates our personal faith/conviction is sin to us. If being a moderate drinker of beer and wine all the time does not violate your faith or conviction and you are it is OK to drink by the Holy Spirit, than that is not sin to you. It could be to others based on their personal faith, conviction and if the Holy Spirit told them NOT TO Drink.
James 4:17
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.
James tells us very plainly that sin is doing something willfully you know is wrong.
David and Bathsheba fit here.
Had David looked at Bathsheba and not let lust be born in his heart, he would not have sinned, even by looking at her taking a bath.
This truth does not make us perfect as PJW is trying to say. It means after we become a new man, grace becomes our teacher, teaching us to have power over sin and we are not helpless over it any longer. We will mess up and still sin, but sin should not have dominion over us because we renew our minds and grace then becomes our teacher, teaching us to deny anything ungodly.
Titus 2:11-14
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, [SUP]12 [/SUP]instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, [SUP]13 [/SUP]looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
PJW, If you are trying to state that your spirit is perfect and your flesh and mind are to, you are wrong.
If you are trying to state that your spirit is perfect, but your mind and flesh are still influenced to Sin and can at times, then you are right.