Not By Works

[gb9]

Don't you know the passages about works as the evidence of saving faith, and how we gain assurance (not security) that we have believed unto salvation by what we do? I run into this all the time--people in the church who have no idea these passages even exist, and when they do they can't see them.



Not me. You are just hearing it that way. Trust me.



That's what I'm saying. Works are the necessary EVIDENCE of salvation, without which only proves you don't really believe unto salvation.

see, once again, you are saying this- we are saved by faith, maintained, through good works, and if you keep the faith and do enough good works, God grants you grace. I get that this makes sense in our human minds.

but, the Bible says we are saved BY grace THROUGH faith FOR good works. so, I go with this, not your way, your way is false.

I understand pride, especially male pride, and in the Biblical way we do not get to take credit for our salvation, our good works are a result of being saved. so I get that you and others want to, I some way, take credit for a part of your salvation. but, that is not what the Bible says.

 

[Snoozy]

PHart if u wanna be consistent in what u are saying u need to throw out writings of Paul, because he contradicts what u say.
u say works of righteousness, he says not by our works in righteousness.

do u really have to wake up every morning and force urself to keep believing? why doesnt it come naturally? whats going on

 

[Studyman]

PHart if u wanna be consistent in what u are saying u need to throw out writings of Paul, because he contradicts what u say.
u say works of righteousness, he says not by our works in righteousness.

do u really have to wake up every morning and force urself to keep believing? why doesnt it come naturally? whats going on

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

PH is not teaching contradictory to Paul, he just understands Paul better than you. He knows:

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

One message for ALL, Same as Jesus taught from the beginning.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well,(God's definition of "well") shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.


21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.(Just like they killed Abel and the Prophets and Jesus)

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

PHart understands these Biblical realities because he considers "Every Word" that is written, not just a few that can be twisted to support man made doctrines and Traditions of some religious franchise.

 

[Issachar92]

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

PH is not teaching contradictory to Paul, he just understands Paul better than you. He knows:

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

One message for ALL, Same as Jesus taught from the beginning.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well,(God's definition of "well") shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.


21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.(Just like they killed Abel and the Prophets and Jesus)

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

PHart understands these Biblical realities because he considers "Every Word" that is written, not just a few that can be twisted to support man made doctrines and Traditions of some religious franchise.

IS THIS ME? Similar message with the same verses i been using about Paul and this topic in general. WEW!

We out here.

 

[VCO]

Perhaps it is your use of such odd "pictures" that throws me?
Jesus defeated sin while in the flesh.
Now that we can be "immersed" into Jesus, we can take part in that victory.
We can live forever.

What part of the FACT that the Spirit and the Body are two different things, do you not understand?


Romans 7:18-20 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For I do not do the good that I want to do, but I practice the evil that I do not want to do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now if I do what I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that lives in me.

 

[Snoozy]

What part of the FACT that the Spirit and the Body are two different things, do you not understand?


Romans 7:18-20 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For I do not do the good that I want to do, but I practice the evil that I do not want to do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now if I do what I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that lives in me.

and the reason Jesus was born of the Holy Ghost is because if Jesus was born from Adam's seed like rest of us, he would have the same problem as all Adam's descendants, sin.

 

[Devoted]

Very simple. If in your heart you believe the work is earning you salvation
..you're wrong

If you believe that you have faith in Christ but have. O works to back it up..you're also wrong

Have faith in Christ... Stop sinning. Both go hand in hand

Thread closed.

 

[stonesoffire]

So do you believe scripture is set against itself?

Or that it is sharp to divide soul from spirit?

Both of these sayings written are true: anyone who makes a practice of sin does not have the Spirit, and anyone, even though they have the Spirit, who says they have no sin is a liar.
This isn't about 'goals' it's about reality, and no one, not one person here teaches that we should wilfully pursue anything other than righteousness.

Thank you for joining this thread posthuman.

 

[PJW]

This is from the sermon I'm listening to right now.
Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Jesus purged sins once and for all. Otherwise, He would not sit down.

It is written..."Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" (Heb 10:29)
Not all will benefit from Jesus' sacrifice, as some will continue to work evil deeds thinking they will not ever be judged.

 

[stonesoffire]

and the reason Jesus was born of the Holy Ghost is because if Jesus was born from Adam's seed like rest of us, he would have the same problem as all Adam's descendants, sin.

Thank you too Snoozy for joining the thread.

 

[PJW]

The word purged is also used in here.

Hebrews 10:2

For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

I'm not familiar with Greek, but the original word for purge:

καθαρισμὸν katharismon (Hebrews 1:3)
κεκαθαρισμένους kekatharismenous (Hebrews 10:2)

Further proof that Jesus died for all sins for all time and so it's not anymore, by our works.

AMEN, stick to the narrow path He has opened up to us.

 

[PJW]

Anyone who is put off by PJW I would say to remember that Lord is giving believers feedback and warnings in Revelation.. Read Believe and Be strengthened by Him my dears.

We can not tell the Lord we are worthy to walk with Him in white.. or that we have the right to the Tree of life .. no we can believe He is the Saviour the author and finisher of our Faith when we have the ear to hear rather than translate ourselves as if we have a GOD given right rather than a Undeserved Gift to be Treasured and be grateful for always.

Praise GOD in Christ always and forever.

Thankyou ever so much.

 

[stonesoffire]

Mine too, that's why I don't commit sin.


Shouldn't that judgement be the same...in the folks who walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh?


Is that what you think Jesus did when He called the Pharisees "children of the devil"? Liars? Thieves?
My war is not with people, but with the spirit the unrighteous have given themselves over to.


"Others"?
You must mean all the others here who have actually "turned from sin".
Would I be demonstrating love by allowing them to think they are safe from the final judgement?


When they defend sin, and all the false doctrines that tolerate or advocate it, they accuse themselves.
Sinners don't "walk as He walked", do they?


I have thrown them a life-ring.
My testimony can cause them to believe they too can "walk as He walked".
If I can do it, anybody can.

You have a different idea about what it means to walk as He walked, than what I see in scripture. We all who have been baptized into His body are members. So we walk in union with Him as our Head, and with other members. All together He is perfect on earth. We are not.

We are crucified with Him, true, raised in His resurrection life, true, but must daily reckon these things to be so. Not so with Jesus, He was full of the godhead bodily. We all together are full of the godhead in His body.

You can't walk separated PJW. No one person has all of Him.

 

[stonesoffire]

AMEN.
Thanks for the relative testimony.

I think we heard differently. He has made me worthy as covering, and purging.

No more condemnation can attack our thoughts when we know what we are given, what our position in His body is, and the fact that we are greatly loved by Father Himself. Father gave us the gift of His Son...when? Before we ever were created for a creation of dust...is just that.

So giving us of His own Spirit, then sending us His Holiness within our Spirit....we overcome as Holy Spirit leads to the things in our personal makeup, that we need to overcome.

Working all things out for good on our behalf, as we lean on Him totally for salvation.

 

[stonesoffire]

Do you really think I am keeping a list of who is pro or anti godliness?
The opinion of others is no less valid than mine, so I present a case for obedience to God...in the light of "is it works for salvation", and we use all the resources available to promote a "yes" or "no" consensus.
From what I have read, I am clearly in the minority: though I do feel that some are only inches away from realizing the truth of my "claims".
It is in hope of pushing them over the line of disbelief that I continue Jesus' efforts here.
We can all live without ever committing another sin.
But it takes faith-belief.
Use that faith to proceed down the road opened to us by faith, by turning from sin, getting baptized in Jesus' name for the remission of your past sins, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost-Comforter-seal of the inheritance-mind of Christ.
Use that faith to "resist the devil and he will flee from you".
Use that faith to remain in the light...which is God.
Use that faith to walk in the Spirit instead of the flesh.

None of our duty is a "work of the law".
It is all a work of faith.

Walking in the Light is daily fellowship, for His mercies are new every morning. A new day...the day of salvation.

 

[stonesoffire]

I testify that men on earth now can be in His kingdom now, and can glorify God with their "works" in Christ Jesus...without ever submitting to the flesh again.
Thanks for asking.

Two Kingdoms. The Kingdom of heaven where He actually dwells. The kingdom of God where He dwells within us, and He rules from a new heart that He gives. Not with a hammer by the way, but by love, truth, light, way...all the things that are revealed as to His character, and found in who He is.

 

[PJW]

neonomianism

In a sense, yes.
Are we not told of [FONT=&quot]the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, in Romans 8:2?
And have we not heard of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the perfect [/FONT]law of liberty? (James 1:25)

 

[stonesoffire]

Beautiful!
Life in Christ starts with a true repentance from sin: a gift given to the Gentiles after it was given to the Jews.
Then water baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins.
At this point you have committed to a life without sin and are sanctified for the residency of the Holy Ghost.
Simple heh?
The repentant will be shown what else happens at baptism, that being the death of the flesh, its burial, and its resurrection with Christ to walk in newness of life.
Reborn of God's seed.
The sinfree will continue to grow in grace and knowledge, a growth that glorifies the Freer and His, and our, Father till it is time to go home..
They will adhere to the exhortations we have been blessed with by God from the bible.

None of this is a work of the law.
It is the manifestation of God on earth.

Questions?

We don't commit. He chose us. Then He commits to His own work of salvation, to bring us safely home.

And we grow in the grace and knowledge of the Son of God.

While I agree we are no more sinners, it is positional and will expand in our life, as we walk with Him, and overcome. We overcome by His blood, and by His testimony. The testimony of grace working in us, His Holy Spirit.

We agree with Him when He speaks for He is God and we are not. The ego is crucified in mankind with regeneration. Our mind however, is unfruitful until we know and experience.

WE can have head knowledge...not yet affecting our soul and body. Soul, and body is in need of salvation. Saved, Spirit, being saved, body and soul, and will be saved. Eternal life with God.

 

[BillG]

I don't know you well enough to say for sure, but I think you should mark that day on your calendar because that's the day you were born again.

No I was born again before that.
Lets face it.

If I wasn’t I wouldn’t have given 2 hoots.
I wouldn’t have been bringing it to God everyday begging for help and mercy.

You seem to have missed part of the point I was trying make.

The reason for problem was not becuase I enjoyed it. There was a cause (and before anyone jumps on me I am not using it as an excuse, Regardless a circumstances we have a choice to make the issue is why we don’t make that choice)

Now when God revealed the issues that was the cause to the effect and asked if I would eventually trust in him then he fulfilled his promise, healed the issues, truly helped me to forgive the past and more importantly, very more importantly he bought me to the place that I actually and genuinely believed that HE LOVED ME AND I WAS HIS SON AND NOTHING I COULD DO WOULD OR COULD EARN HIS LOVE.

When I started to grasp my identity in him the chains fell off and I was set free.

You yourself have said that you and bad anger issues, which praise God he has bought you through.
But would you say as you have said to me when you overcame “That’s the day you were born again?
You sought God for your issues that controlled you.
That being the case just like me you were born again because if you weren’t you wouldn’t be seeking God for help.

So for me I was born again but I was holiding on to God with the very little strength I had, or should I say he was holding on to me. Either way I was being like Jacob.

I will not let go until you bless me.

 

[PJW]

What part of the FACT that the Spirit and the Body are two different things, do you not understand?

I understand that perfectly.
Perhaps you should view post #42493 to see what I was responding to?

Romans 7:18-20 (HCSB)

[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For I do not do the good that I want to do, but I practice the evil that I do not want to do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now if I do what I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that lives in me.

I thank God that we don't have to walk in the "flesh" since it's death with Jesus. (Rom 6:3-6)