Not By Works

[PJW]

Take it up with JESUS and explain WHY he said what he said.......He stated clearly that NO one was GOOD except GOD.....I believe he said it for two reasons....

a. He came in the likeness of sinful flesh
b. He came to be sin for us and was cursed (hung on a tree) for our justification

He also manifested that He was the Word...who was good.

In the OT, men, generally, weren't considered 'good'.
There were exceptions: Enoch and Samuel come to mind, but in the NT, we can all be good by "turning from sin", being washed by the blood of Christ, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and loving God above all else.
God made it possible for all of us NT'ers to be 'good'.
He brought the truth that could free us from service to sin.

 

[gb9]

New International Version 1984 Titus 1:15-16 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

Titus 3. keep reading. Titus was a letter. not meant to be chopped into pieces.

 

[VCO]

I wonder why some seem to concentrate on the negative scriptures rather than those that are of faith.

BECAUSE THEY REJECT WHAT GOD ACTULLY SAID, AND INSERT THEIR OWN OPINIONS OF WHAT THEY THINK GOD SHOULD HAVE SAID, INSTEAD OF FOLLOWING PAUL'S EXAMPLE. THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THAT SAME COIN IS EQUALLY TRUE. THE LOVE ONLY" WATERED DOWN FALSE GOSPEL OF EASY BELIEVISM IS FREQUENTLY DENYING THE WRATH OF GOD, EVEN SAYING, "A LOVING GOD WOULD NEVER SEND ANYBODY TO HELL." Here is Paul's example:

Acts 20:27-28 (NIV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

 

[gb9]

AMEN....I have answered him like 4 times and he still cannot see the forest because of trees of sinless perfection....and I do not need Jesus works for salvation.

it seems as if some cannot plainly see black and white. because it is right there, in God's written word, in black and white. but, they chose not to see it as a whole. they try to chop it into pieces and try to build theology around the pieces

but you and I and some others have too much fear of God and respect for the written word to do that foolish thing.

 

[PJW]

Do you mean “Let’s not a synonym of sinless perfection?

I am thinking you meant..."Let's use a synonym for sinless perfection".
The synonym casts a different light on the POVs.
Many have been indoctrinated into refusing to believe in "sinless" anything, so with a redefinition of the term, we may be able to come to an agreement...in Christ.

 

[PJW]

And I would say...salvation is already secure in Christ based upon the following....

A. Saved by grace through faith as a GIFT that cannot be earned
B. Saved to the uttermost by his power through faith
C. Sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise UNTIL the day of redemption
D. Justified by his BLOOD through faith
E. Sanctified eternally and positionally
F. In HIS hand
G. In the Father's hand
H. He promises to NEVER leave us or forsake us
I. We have been given ETERNAL life in Christ not temporary
J. His grace OUTBOUNDS our sin when we fail
K. HE promises to FINISH and COMPLETE the work of faith that he began in US
L. The spirit has been born again by INCORRUPTABLE SEED and beyond corruption
M. We are dealt with as SONS and whipped for disobedience and not CAST AWAY
N. The prodigal was a son through the whole process and still received
O. The Corinthian brother was cut loose for the destruction of the flesh yet still saved
P. Believers can have works of wood, hay and stubble yet still be saved so as through the fire

etc........

I agree with all your points, with very minute differences...or better said, from a different perspective.
What we don't agree on is weather or not we can, by the grace of God, live in perfect harmony with God.

I believe that God's grace and protection does keep us from temptation and sin.

Your very first line holds the key to my opinion.
"In Christ".
I don't believe there is sin, or sinners "in Christ".

 

[TruthTalk]

Originally Posted by gb9

if you want to see a sinner, go look in a mirror. there is no one who does not sin, including you. that a straight enough answer for you??

Hi gb9, I agree with your post; the pure gospel is like a glass of purified drinking water. If you add your works to Jesus Christ's finished work of the Cross to, "keep yourself saved," it is like adding a spoon full of dirt to a perfectly good glass of purified drinking water, which has now become undrinkable. If you say, after God saved me I am now without sin you have become a lier and the truth is not in you.

Either way Jesus Christ has become no benefit.

​

 

[PJW]

We are called to be Fruit Inspectors. The Fruit I see PJW producing is Strife, Dissentions, and Factions, in fact it appears to me he loves it. In fact, I do not even sense of a kindred spirit with him, whereas with a lot of others claiming to be Christian, I do feel that kindred spirit. He even verbally spits on Veterans for the Service to their Country, the opposite of being Christ-like.

If you still commit sin, I can assure you, we have different spirits.
As for veterans, I have avoided the topic entirely.
If I have forgotten something I wrote, please PM me with it or post it for us all.

 

[Seohce]

He also manifested that He was the Word...who was good.

In the OT, men, generally, weren't considered 'good'.
There were exceptions: Enoch and Samuel come to mind, but in the NT, we can all be good by "turning from sin", being washed by the blood of Christ, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and loving God above all else.
God made it possible for all of us NT'ers to be 'good'.
He brought the truth that could free us from service to sin.

Titus 3. keep reading. Titus was a letter. not meant to be chopped into pieces.

2 Timothy 3:15,17 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

New International Version 1984 Hebrews 4:12-13 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Would you call a born again in the spirit a sinner?

New International Version 1984 Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

New International Version 1984 John 3:6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

New International Version 1984 1 John 3:4-10 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

 

[PJW]

"Praise be to God, and be assured that at the final judgement you won't hear "depart from me ye that work iniquity"."
The iniquity they work is depending on THEIR works for salvation, NOT Jesus'
"First...I do not sin...thanks be to God"
You make God out to be a liar. We are blameless NOT sinless. You cheapen God's perfect standard by saying you never sin. You have never driven 1 mile over the speed limit? That is sin. You have Never glanced at a woman and had an impure thought? SIN! You have never gotten angry with someone? Sin. You have never been fearful, worried, called someone a fool, used foul language,foolish talk, course jesting, wanted ANYTHING (not taken, just wanted)that someone else has. any pride, and many other sins.?
"Second...Was Paul slapping God when he wrote..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Or..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
Was Peter slapping God when he wrote..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)"
Speaking of Peter... PAUL calls him a hypocrite! Hypocrisy is a sin. Is Peter saved? Why wasn't he sinlessly perfect? How many times did Jesus tell him to forgive WHO? His brother!! Why is he to forgive his brother if his brother never sins?
"You have, in effect, made Jesus your Savior, but not your Lord."
He is my Lord. That is why I know He forgives me when I fail. NOT saying there are not consequences when I fail. But God disowning me, His child, is NOT one of them.Just like my children know I will forgive them and not disown them when they fail.
"Why didn't THAT grace stop the sin you just mentioned in the last sentence?"
A fair question. I believe the answer is He is still working, sanctifying and perfecting me. I am NOT the man I was 5 yrs ago, and I expect the Holy Spirit will conform me more and more to the likeness of Jesus til I die and receive an incorruptable body.
"I can only hope that despair drives you to a real repentance from sin."
Yeah..um no.. Despair is the enemy's goal. NOT our beautiful Lord!!!
"You forgot to include..."and permission to keep sinning''."
A true shame you had to end your post with slander.

Your defense of sin is noted.
Please answer this question...Is there sin in Christ?
No?
Then how can we have sin in us if we are "in Christ'?
As scripture tells us how to "get" in Christ, I believe that those who are in Christ rejoice in the same freedom from sin that Jesus does.
Your POV neglects the miracle of repentance, and the miracle of rebirth, after our crucifixion and burial with Christ.

 

[PJW]

and the deceit of saying I do not sin.....wow...he is in for a big surprise............the audacity..........the ignorance.....

I thank GAWD that I do not sin like that sinner over there.....<--PHARISEES.......

Your misinterpretation of 1 John 1:8 makes both verse 7 and 9 a lie.
They say that ALL our sin/unrighteousness CAN be washed away>
To remain clean, it is just a question of remaining in the light.

 

[PJW]

Apparently not. Nobody is the perfect. My understanding is that the whole body of Christ receives the glory and the fullness.

It precludes sin for me and all those in Christ, as there is no sin in here

Sin can be thoughts. Capturing them and learning to deal with them takes much time. Plus, our flesh will lie to us, the devil lies to us...takes time to realize who and what we are. We are babes, young men, and then fathers according to 1John. And babes stumble about.

Some misnomers in that sentence...
James says that we will be tempted, enticed, and conception will occur before sin is committed.
Why would it take time, as we have been reborn of Godly seed that cannot bring forth evil fruit? We have been given the mind of Christ, the Comforter to help us.
Not to mention that we will never be tempted above what we can handle.

Not giving a license to sin. Just being realistic. Who of us have been taught correctly?

Your "realism" is of this world, as God has provided us everything we need to endure till the end without sin.

If I say a hard word, I don't mean it as a judgement. There is no condemnation if we belong to Him.
Am really trying to provoke one to seek what scripture says we can have.
I think you understand. Not sure why you would think one cannot sin though. We have an adversary and people fall prey to his lies all the time.[/QUOTE]
Don't believe the lie that Jesus lost the war to conquer sin.
It is written..."[FONT=&quot]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)
That is why I believe all men can live without sin.We can be reborn with a divine nature, after killing the old man, burying him, and being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
It's not a new life if you do the same old sins from before.[/FONT]

 

[PJW]

Oh, and I believe that we are crucified at conversion. Positionally, but experientially will take time as we place our faith in His word.

"Positionally" is code for...do as I please and think I will get salvation anyway.
Romans 6 says we are crucified at baptism.

I think you need a different teacher.
If you want to place your faith in His word, have faith in this..."[FONT=&quot]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. " (John 8:32-34)
Jesus said no man can serve two masters. In fact He added that we will love the one and hate the other.
Jesus is saying that the servants of sin hate God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

 

[VCO]

yea, what he said!!

I mentioned the child proof pistol cases to keep your pistol in your headboard, and still be totally inaccessible to a child. It has a built in fingerprint scanner and a four digit pin to access the pistol in the box.

That way even if a child secretly sees what combo you enter, the child still will not be able to open the box because the combo only works after the correct finger print has been scanned. The price of them has come WAY DOWN, and now sells for only $158.60 on Amazon.

I am sure that GOD intended that self defense weapons be kept out of the hands of children when he said:

Luke 22:36 (CSBBible)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Then he said to them, "But now, whoever has a money-bag should take it, and also a traveling bag. And whoever doesn't have a sword should sell his robe and buy one.


Those swords were kept razor sharp, and NO PARENTS Christ's day were handing one to their small children and saying, "Here, now you and your brother go outside and play nice." Therefore the same kind of common sense Safety Consciousness would be expected of today's gun owners with small children.

One of the most frequent arguments against guns in the home, is: "There are too many gun accidents."

The problem with that theory is the so-called gun accidents, ONLY HAPPEN AFTER SOMEBODY VIOLATES A GUN SAFETY RULE. That is why I think every gun owner should take the NRA SAFETY COURSE.

 

[PJW]

Pick a teaching. I can't answer unless you choose one.

I was commenting on your reply to Hizikaya.
Don't you think that ALL of Jesus' teachings are part of the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus"? (Rom 8:2)

 

[PJW]

Your own goodness or His?

Both, as we are one.

 

[PJW]

You've already forgotten?

~Heb 10:14　 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Nope, I haven't forgotten.
It is still my duty to endure till the end.

 

[VCO]

If you still commit sin, I can assure you, we have different spirits.
As for veterans, I have avoided the topic entirely.
If I have forgotten something I wrote, please PM me with it or post it for us all.

Romans 3:10 (YLT)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] according as it hath been written--`There is none righteous, not even one;

 

[PJW]

if you want to see a sinner, go look in a mirror. there is no one who does not sin, including you. that a straight enough answer for you??

Nobody in Christ commits sin.
There is no sin in Christ.

 

[PJW]

AMEN....the sinless perfectionists and worker for who really don't need JESUS are thicker than weeds........and still rejecting grace and faith in favor of self saving I am perfect sinless perfectionist cracker jack theology....

Question...Who do you think the devil attacks harder: the man who has given himself over to sin or the man who resists the devil's temptations?
I could posit that those in Christ, (the perfectly sinless), need Jesus more than the sinner.
Thanks be to God for His gracious protections.