Not By Works

[Hizikyah]

Anything after Matthew 14 is not John the Baptist speaking, for he was dead by then. Please show the false doctrines that John the Baptist exposed. You have not done so yet (nor did I ask you to).

YesI said Yahshua/Jesus amd Yahanan/John, andI did not mean to interrupt, I saw that there was not a reply and wanted to share the Word. I think it obvious that John was rebuking them for fase teaching, it does not say exactly what for, but we see John did rebuke them and thus to repent. Repent of what? If they had done nothign wrong there would be no reason to repent. and it worth noting thatthey were the main stream religion of the day, and John, Jesus, Paul were considered cultists and heretics...

Then if we look at Yahshua'Jesus dealings with the pharisees we can see He rebukes them from their man made law, washing of hands before eating, so called "ritual impurity" of a pot (the wine from water), and their hypocracy, etc...

 

[Magenta]

Is Jesus not capable of producing righteous people?

If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.

But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christand be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.

 

[Studyman]

I have done the same thing studyman, and this is my first post to you. Am not familiar with you yet.

What I think you are saying is that the gospel was hidden in the OT but Paul preached Jesus and the revelation of Him out of that. Is that correct? For this is true. He pretty much wrote most of the NT, but he saw Jesus in the Old. So it was all he had. All that any of them had.

I do too.

Yes, The OT seems to be the instruction, and the NT seems to be examples of the instruction put into practice. So one would have difficulty understanding the New Testament unless they knew of the instruction that they followed.

You have a great day.

 

[Hizikyah]

2 Timothy 2:21, "If, then, anyone cleanses himself from these matters, he shall be a vessel unto value, having been set apart, of good use to the Master, having been prepared for every good work."

Psalm 105:4, "Seek יהוה and His strength; Seek His face always."

Romans 12:11, "not idle in duty, ardent in spirit, serving the Master;"

Hebrews 12:2, "looking to the Prince and Perfecter of our belief, יהושע, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the stake, having despised the shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of Elohim."

Luke 12:20, "“But Elohim said to him, ‘You mindless one! This night your life shall be demanded from you. And who shall own what you have prepared?’"

 

[Magenta]

YesI said Yahshua/Jesus amd Yahanan/John, andI did not mean to interrupt, I saw that there was not a reply and wanted to share the Word. I think it obvious that John was rebuking them for fase teaching, it does not say exactly what for, but we see John did rebuke them and thus to repent. Repent of what? If they had done nothign wrong there would be no reason to repent. and it worth noting thatthey were the main stream religion of the day, and John, Jesus, Paul were considered cultists and heretics...

Then if we look at Yahshua'Jesus dealings with the pharisees we can see He rebukes them from their man made law, washing of hands before eating, so called "ritual impurity" of a pot (the wine from water), and their hypocracy, etc...

Repentance was nothing new. It was something they did regularly, religiously, according to God's instructions. I do not see this as pointing out false teachings at all. It is a true teaching, and stands to this day (the need for repentance). I am asking for the specifics of John pointing out their false teachings. So far I see none. I did not ask for anything of Jesus' rebukes on false teachings. They were quite superfluous in your response.

 

[stonesoffire]

Isa 54:17　 no weapon that is forged against you will be effective. This is the heritage of the LORD's servants, and their righteousness from me," says the LORD.　

and here it is in the OT studyman.

We get the upright moral walk mixed up with righteousness all the time, dont' we?

 

[stonesoffire]

Repentance was nothing new. It was something they did regularly, religiously, according to God's instructions. I do not see this as pointing out false teachings at all. It is a true teaching, and stands to this day (the need for repentance). I am asking for the specifics of John pointing out their false teachings. So far I see none. I did not ask for anything of Jesus' rebukes on false teachings. They were quite superfluous in your response.

John preached the preparation of the people for the Kingdom truth in Jesus to come.

I do believe this is the water birth of the born again experience. Baptism of water that Jesus spoke of. Anyone else think this too? Spirit baptism came after resurrection.

 

[Hizikyah]

Isa 54:17　 no weapon that is forged against you will be effective. This is the heritage of the LORD's servants, and their righteousness from me," says the LORD.　

and here it is in the OT studyman.

We get the upright moral walk mixed up with righteousness all the time, dont' we?

The heart is wicked, all righteous acts are a sign that Yah is guiding.

we must take the entire council of Yah as this is also from Isaiah.

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah: do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their revilings.”

an interesting this is the complexity of the word.

Im going to catch some flak for this one, but it is Scripture;

Romans 6:16, "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?"

Ecclesiastes 7:20, “For there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and does not sin.”

Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Messiah Yahshua, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."

1 John 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

Deuteronomy 6:25, "And it is righteousness for us when we guard to do all this command before יהוה our Strength, as He has commanded us.”

Psalm 119:172, “My tongue sings of Your word, For all Your commands are righteousness.”

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah: do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their revilings.”

1 Corinthians 7:19, The circumcision is naught, and the uncircumcision is naught, but the guarding of the commands of Yah does matter!”

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, “Let us hear the conclusion of the entire matter: Fear Yah and guard His commands, for this applies to all mankind! For Yah shall bring every work into right-ruling, including all that is hidden, whether good or whether evil.”

1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

AGAIN I say, anything righteous that comes from flesh is Yah working in people, glory to YHWH Most High.

 

[Studyman]

=Magenta;3317840]

If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.

The Pharisees had created their own religion, their own doctrines and their own traditions, that is why they were blind and Zechariahs and Elizabeth were not. Their righteousness was not based on the Law of God, but their own doctrines of men they called the Laws of God. That is what Jesus said.

[/QUOTE]But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christand be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, (Pharisee's doctrines) but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.[/QUOTE]

 

[Magenta]

John preached the preparation of the people for the Kingdom truth in Jesus to come.

I do believe this is the water birth of the born again experience. Baptism of water that Jesus spoke of. Anyone else think this too? Spirit baptism came after resurrection.

Hello Stones, I hope you are well

Jesus baptizes with fire and the Spirit. Still, John the Baptist being the voice crying out in the wilderness to make straight the path for the coming of the Lord is not pointing out false doctrines as was asserted.

 

[Studyman]

Isa 54:17　 no weapon that is forged against you will be effective. This is the heritage of the LORD's servants, and their righteousness from me," says the LORD.　

and here it is in the OT studyman.

We get the upright moral walk mixed up with righteousness all the time, dont' we?

Heb. 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

Good post, thanks for the conversation

 

[stonesoffire]

Hello Stones, I hope you are well

Jesus baptizes with fire and the Spirit. Still, John the Baptist being the voice crying out in the wilderness to make straight the path for the coming of the Lord is not pointing out false doctrines as was asserted.

I've heard those who say the fire and Spirit are separate. Perhaps it comes more than once? Don't know. Am getting better thank you. Had a tough time there for a while. A new medication seems to be helping.

And I agree. He made the path straight...preparation.

At least I haven't seen anything yet in scripture that says he was against false doctrine. Manmade laws maybe?

I think he did mention washing hands but it was Jesus who addressed this.

 

[PeterJens]

Emotionally loaded language

Once you say to hold a certain position is to be evil, doomed to hell, you are obviously
going to stay on one side of the argument.

It gets worse when only one interpretation of a verse can be taken as acceptable.

Jesus was very clear. Listen to Him, learn from Him and revelation will come to you.
It is not a risk, or a dangerous path to follow. You are not going to fall into some
strange ideas, He will be faithful to you.

If you feel someone is twisting a verse, it could be that your interpretation is twisted,
and they are explaining what is meant. The fact that different perspectives create different
outcomes is why one has to be careful. And there is a lot at stake if you start closing down
ones mind. It is why we can take comfort in Jesus declaring He is the truth.

 

[Magenta]

The Pharisees had created their own religion, their own doctrines and their own traditions, that is why they were blind and Zechariahs and Elizabeth were not. Their righteousness was not based on the Law of God, but their own doctrines of men they called the Laws of God. That is what Jesus said.

The assertion you made was that John the Baptist told the people they were teaching false doctrines. I would like to see those verses if you can show them to me. I did not ask for what Jesus said in that regard. As to being faultless under the law, Paul says it is garbage, yes? Righteousness is counted to us through faith in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and His resurrection to life. You add to the Scriptures.

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I believe It is those that think Paul taught not to follow the Law of the Creator is what is causing the error…[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I believe It is those that think Paul taught not to follow the Law of the Creator is what is causing the error…[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"[/FONT]

 

[stonesoffire]

The heart is wicked, all righteous acts are a sign that Yah is guiding.

we must take the entire council of Yah as this is also from Isaiah.

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah: do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their revilings.”

an interesting this is the complexity of the word.

Im going to catch some flak for this one, but it is Scripture;

Romans 6:16, "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?"

Ecclesiastes 7:20, “For there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and does not sin.”

Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Messiah Yahshua, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."

1 John 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

Deuteronomy 6:25, "And it is righteousness for us when we guard to do all this command before יהוה our Strength, as He has commanded us.”

Psalm 119:172, “My tongue sings of Your word, For all Your commands are righteousness.”

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah: do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their revilings.”

1 Corinthians 7:19, The circumcision is naught, and the uncircumcision is naught, but the guarding of the commands of Yah does matter!”

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, “Let us hear the conclusion of the entire matter: Fear Yah and guard His commands, for this applies to all mankind! For Yah shall bring every work into right-ruling, including all that is hidden, whether good or whether evil.”

1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

AGAIN I say, anything righteous that comes from flesh is Yah working in people, glory to YHWH Most High.

ah yes...flak

Lets read the whole chapter.

~Dead to Sin, Alive to God
Rom 6:1　 What should we say, then? Should we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
　
Rom 6:2　 Of course not! How can we who died as far as sin is concerned go on living in it?
　
Rom 6:3　 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into union with the Messiah Jesus were baptized into his death?　


Rom 6:4　 Therefore, through baptism we were buried with him into his death so that, just as the Messiah was raised from the dead by the Father's glory, we too may live an entirely new life.　


Rom 6:5　 For if we have become united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.　


Rom 6:6　 We know that our old natures were crucified with him so that our sin-laden bodies might be rendered powerless and we might no longer be slaves to sin.
　
Rom 6:7　 For the person who has died has been freed from sin.　


Rom 6:8　 Now if we have died with the Messiah, we believe that we will also live with him,　


Rom 6:9　 for we know that the Messiah, who was raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has mastery over him.　


Rom 6:10　 For when he died, he died once and for all as far as sin is concerned. But now that he is alive, he lives for God.　


Rom 6:11　 In the same way, you too must continually consider yourselves dead as far as sin is concerned, but living for God through the Messiah Jesus.　


Rom 6:12　 Therefore, do not let sin rule your mortal bodies so that you obey their desires.　


Rom 6:13　 Stop offering the parts of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness. Instead, offer yourselves to God as people who have been brought from death to life and the parts of your body as instruments of righteousness to God.　

not spirit, not soul. Body.


Rom 6:14　 For sin will not have mastery over you, because you are not under Law but under grace.　
Slaves to Righteousness
Rom 6:15　 What, then, does this mean? Should we go on sinning because we are not under Law but under grace? Of course not!　


Rom 6:16　 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?　

Question. How then does one obey righteousness? We've been talking about this in many different threads, and we just read it too.


Rom 6:17　 But thank God that, though you were once slaves of sin, you became obedient from your hearts to that form of teaching with which you were entrusted!

What's the teaching?
　
Rom 6:18　 And since you have been freed from sin, you have become slaves of righteousness.

How do we serve then? all the same questions...all the same answers.　


Rom 6:19　 I am speaking in simple terms because of the frailty of your human nature. Just as you once offered the parts of your body as slaves to impurity and to greater and greater disobedience, so now, in the same way, you must offer the parts of your body as slaves to righteousness that leads to sanctification.　

Sanctification of what? Not soul, not spirit but what? And why?


Rom 6:20　 For when you were slaves of sin, you were "free" as far as righteousness was concerned.　


Rom 6:21　 What benefit did you get from doing those things you are now ashamed of? For those things resulted in death.

our dna has death. We need a whole new being.
　
Rom 6:22　 But now that you have been freed from sin and have become God's slaves, the benefit you reap is sanctification, and the result is eternal life.

This is bond slaves. Not as Israel served under laws to control....but of the ear pinned to the door of the one who loves his master. 　


Rom 6:23　 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in union with the Messiah Jesus our Lord.　

and the gift of God to His own is eternal life through His DNA, His life. Remember His body as you take the cup and wine.

 

[stonesoffire]

What is behind all sin? Is it not lust? lusting for what we are told we can't have.

Where does lust originate? Lets look at our armor.

Where is righteousness found in our armor?

Loins girded about with righteousness. Coveting is a grave sin. Men murder with hate and will take what is theirs just because of lust.

Jesus pinned this weakness with His sword to the earth realm. That we might live out of heavenly realms free!

Keep your breastplate of truth on.

 

[VCO]

Me too, but what I see in the present tense, is that Paul considers himself the worst of those saved...from sin.
If you still commit sin, you won't be saved in the end.

1 Corinthians 3:14-15 (ESV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.


And you think YOUR SELF-SAVING YARDSTICK will CONTINUE TO SAVE YOU?

AMAZING FALSE THEOLOGY!


1 Corinthians 3:18 (ESV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.


GRACE is GOD GIVING YOU WHAT YOU DO NOT DESERVE AND CANNOT EARN.

MERCY is GOD not giving you what you really deserve, because of the sins you will not admit, and can NEVER PAY FOR.



Thinking that you by your works, while walking in faith, can CONTINUE TO SAVE YOURSELF, is like WALKING ON THIN ICE. SOONER OR LATER, YOU WILL FAIL:

[video=youtube;Q_WtjxHOr_M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_WtjxHOr_M[/video]


I WILL PUT MY ENTIRE TRUST ON JESUS TO KEEP ME SAVED, THANK YOU!

 

[Hizikyah]

ah yes...flak

Lets read the whole chapter.

~Dead to Sin, Alive to God
Rom 6:1　 What should we say, then? Should we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
　
Rom 6:2　 Of course not! How can we who died as far as sin is concerned go on living in it?
　
Rom 6:3　 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into union with the Messiah Jesus were baptized into his death?　


Rom 6:4　 Therefore, through baptism we were buried with him into his death so that, just as the Messiah was raised from the dead by the Father's glory, we too may live an entirely new life.　


Rom 6:5　 For if we have become united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.　


Rom 6:6　 We know that our old natures were crucified with him so that our sin-laden bodies might be rendered powerless and we might no longer be slaves to sin.
　
Rom 6:7　 For the person who has died has been freed from sin.　


Rom 6:8　 Now if we have died with the Messiah, we believe that we will also live with him,　


Rom 6:9　 for we know that the Messiah, who was raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has mastery over him.　


Rom 6:10　 For when he died, he died once and for all as far as sin is concerned. But now that he is alive, he lives for God.　


Rom 6:11　 In the same way, you too must continually consider yourselves dead as far as sin is concerned, but living for God through the Messiah Jesus.　


Rom 6:12　 Therefore, do not let sin rule your mortal bodies so that you obey their desires.　


Rom 6:13　 Stop offering the parts of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness. Instead, offer yourselves to God as people who have been brought from death to life and the parts of your body as instruments of righteousness to God.　

not spirit, not soul. Body.


Rom 6:14　 For sin will not have mastery over you, because you are not under Law but under grace.　
Slaves to Righteousness
Rom 6:15　 What, then, does this mean? Should we go on sinning because we are not under Law but under grace? Of course not!　


Rom 6:16　 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?　

Question. How then does one obey righteousness? We've been talking about this in many different threads, and we just read it too.


Rom 6:17　 But thank God that, though you were once slaves of sin, you became obedient from your hearts to that form of teaching with which you were entrusted!

What's the teaching?
　
Rom 6:18　 And since you have been freed from sin, you have become slaves of righteousness.

How do we serve then? all the same questions...all the same answers.　


Rom 6:19　 I am speaking in simple terms because of the frailty of your human nature. Just as you once offered the parts of your body as slaves to impurity and to greater and greater disobedience, so now, in the same way, you must offer the parts of your body as slaves to righteousness that leads to sanctification.　

Sanctification of what? Not soul, not spirit but what? And why?


Rom 6:20　 For when you were slaves of sin, you were "free" as far as righteousness was concerned.　


Rom 6:21　 What benefit did you get from doing those things you are now ashamed of? For those things resulted in death.

our dna has death. We need a whole new being.
　
Rom 6:22　 But now that you have been freed from sin and have become God's slaves, the benefit you reap is sanctification, and the result is eternal life.

This is bond slaves. Not as Israel served under laws to control....but of the ear pinned to the door of the one who loves his master. 　


Rom 6:23　 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in union with the Messiah Jesus our Lord.　

and the gift of God to His own is eternal life through His DNA, His life. Remember His body as you take the cup and wine.

what is sin?

what does it mean to be dead to sin?

 

[BillG]

This is not about you ,me, or anyone on this forum in my view. It's about knowing what the Bible's teaches. And to do that, we must use "Every Word of God", not just the few verses that can be used to further some church doctrine.

Matt. 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

So BG, we are told to:

2 Tim. 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

So this means I, ME, I am supposed to study. It doesn't mean am to pick and choose someone else to study for me. Like the Pope, or Benny Hinn, or Oral Roberts. I am supposed to study, and I am supposed to use EVERY WORD of God in that study.

For instance, Paul said:

Rom. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

And He said.

1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

And he said:

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

So these are seemingly directly opposite instructions. What "MANY" people do is just pick the one that more closely supports their current lifestyle, and ignore the other. To a Jewish believer, the Rom. 2, might fit the traditions and doctrines of his church than the Rom. 3 scripture. To the AOG or Baptist or "many" others, the Rom. 3 scripture is used, and the others ignored.

But this isn't the way we are told to study, and it is in direct contradiction to Jesus and His instruction to consider Every Word.

So this is what I did. I separated myself from ALL Mainstream teachings, at least as much as possible in America today. And for 20 years I studied. Of course this means nothing to you as you don't know me from Adam, and it really means nothing anyway, lots of people study. It is just a factual account of what I did, nothing more.

What I found out is that these scriptures do not contradict each other at all. In Rom. 3 and Gal. 3 Paul is speaking of the Levitical Priesthood, ceremonial, sacrificial "works or Deeds of the Law" for remission of sin, contained in the "Oracles" of God. Paul tells us this Levitical Priesthood was "ADDED" because of transgression of the Laws Abraham was blessed for obeying. (Gen. 26:5) They were a "Shadow" of Christ's sacrifice and were to be in force "Until the Seed should come". (Gal. 3:19)

So it is wrong to build a doctrine around one scripture, while rejecting others. And this also makes it almost impossible to understand God's instruction if a person cherry picks scripture, or if a person CHOOSES to place more value on one scripture that others.

So instead of choosing scripture that supports some doctrine or tradition of men, and erasing from my mind any scripture that brings these doctrines and traditions into question, I simply let the Bible create my doctrine. This was easier for me because I had already separated myself from a Mainstream Church that EVERYBODY knows "Transgresses the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and Traditions".

And even though I know, from study, that "most" will choose church tradition over God's Word, I came on this forum anyway and am sharing what I have been shown with you.

We are told by "many" that Paul says we can do "NOTHING" in respect to our salvation. And they use a few scriptures including this one as support of that teaching.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

But the same people reject and ignore the same words of the same Paul when he said the following.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.
22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

Which confirms my belief that the Gospel of Christ is the Old Testament as Paul said in Romans 1, which I was accused of lying about.

In closing, keep in mind that it was Jesus, not me, who said;

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, (Christians) saying, I am Christ;(Saying Jesus is truly the Son of God) and shall deceive many.

It is good that you are "Testing the Spirits".

I see what you are saying about about Paul and the levitical laws.
This is something I posted a while back.

Chapter 7 to me deals with the relationship between the law and sin.

I don’t think the law he is referring to is the 10 commandments, I don’t see them as the Mosaic law. but the law keeping, the laws we find that religious leaders of the time placed upon people that burdened them, but also the laws that the religious leaders circumnavigated in order to meet their own needs rather than the needs of others.

Galatians 5:14
14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”


This is the law that was defined as sin as such.

We of course we find Paul getting upset with the Galatians because they returned to the law. When I say law here if memory serves me it was to do with the snip. It seems the Galatians started off with salvation through faith based on grace through and love and bearing with each other in love and with love. and not of works and insisting on the snip to be saved.

Also on another thread that there is no contradiction in scripture.
If there was then its fallible, If that’s the case we may as well put the bible on a bookshelf to gather dust and give up.
Where there may seem to be a contradiction, we need to seek the answer for it becuase contradictions is the bible are not there.

To be honest I do go to a bible based believing church. A few years ago I myself went on a journey.
What is it I believe and why do I believe it. A journey I am still on.
Certain challenges to my faith arose and paradigm shifts were made. That was tough.

So to be honest and I hope all see this.

I only post based on what I believe the bible says and that I am happy and confident that is what the bible is saying.
I never give my opinions if I am still unsure or cannot reconcile in my own mind what is being said.

Becoming a Berean rather than just believing what I was and have been told.

But the truth is at the end of the day your settled thoughts and mine or someone else’s may be different.
For me if either opinion is lead people to become more like Jesus then it’s not a big issue for me.
Jesus said “Give me your burden and take mine, for mine is not a burden”

Jesus summed up the 10 commandments in 2. He also took it further by telling us to love our enemies and do good to those who hate me.

Having given Jesus our burden and taking his then he will surely help us with the 2 new commandments and taking it further.
Also I beleive anything within us that detracts from that he will work in us to conform us to his image.

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

To conform us to the image of Christ is to be like Christ and go about the business of the Father.