Not By Works

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UnderGrace said:
So are you saying you have to keep believing you are saved to be saved?

What do you keep believing?
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Because his god cannot KEEP him saved BY HIS POWER like ours can and does.....he is oblivious to Greek verb tense and the present continuing result from a PAST COMPLETED ACTION.......He can boast before JESUS how HE kept himself saved and did not need JESUS....his faith usurps the faith of JESUS by his very doctrine.....
 
dcontroversal said:
Wrong again........KEPT BY HIS POWER....your out of context deceit denies this...there is NO being saved and LOSING IT or forfeiting it.....what a weak, inept god you serve......
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What exactly are you disagreeing with in my post? That every believer is secure in Christ. Or that every one who presently believes is presently saved? Or that the former believer is not secure in Christ?
 
Sometimes they do not come back but He goes and finds them

Because He is faithful



VCO said:
No those a Prodigals, who always do repent and come back, and those that NEVER do come back, only prove they NEVER were genuine Christians in the first place.
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PHart said:
I keep believing that my sins are forgiven through the blood of Christ. That's why my sins are forgiven through the blood of Christ....I believe and trust in the blood of Christ to do that.

That's what justification/salvation is....believing that your sins are forgiven in Jesus Christ and God applying that forgiveness to you because you are believing in it to do that for you. Going back to unbelief is not how you believe that your sins are forgiven in Jesus Christ.

Having faith is the condition for having the forgiveness of God in Christ. Why do people think that's a work of trying to save oneself????? Paul clearly said that is exactly how you get justification--by believing. But I'm being told here believing is the work that Paul said can not justify.
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HAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAH wow man.....you really do not understand justified do you...nor the fact that EVERY SIN was already covered and paid for in full.....I have heard it all now.....I have to do this I have to do that I have to keep on keeping on or I lose that which is eternal.....wow................
 
preacher4truth said:
No, sorry, He didn't make it possible, He did it.
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Lol, hardly. It's only because God gave me the ability--the faith--to believe that I can then believe and be saved. That's why I can not boast in believing as a work that merits God's declaration of right standing as payment earned.
 
PHart said:
Does Jesus do your believing for you? Or did Jesus give you the faith--the ability--so you can do your believing/trusting?

Which is it, dcon? Are you a Calvinist and believe that you're just a pre-programmed puppet in the hands of God? Or are you a freewill creature able to make choices?
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The bible is clear...I am SECURE in HIS HANDS and KEPT by HIS POWER.....you state clearly that YOUR god is WEAK and cannot keep you, but rather YOU MUST HELP HIM keep you saved.....saved, sealed, justified and sanctified forever to the uttermost and kept by his POWER<----you view undermines this...how is it that you cannot see that....
 
dcontroversal said:
HAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAH wow man.....you really do not understand justified do you...nor the fact that EVERY SIN was already covered and paid for in full.....I have heard it all now.....I have to do this I have to do that I have to keep on keeping on or I lose that which is eternal.....wow................
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I see you have no credible argument to disprove what I say. Just post the scripture that says believing is a work of the damnable works gospel and you will have won, and I will publicly acknowledge that you were right and I was wrong, and in it's own thread so everyone can see it.
 
PHart said:
W. Or that every one who presently believes is presently saved? Or that the former believer is not secure in Christ?
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The above I false....both are incorrect.....one is either saved eternally or they were never saved to begin with....there is NO SUCH thing as presently believing = presently saved nor a former believer is not secure in Christ

ALL who have exercised genuine faith into JESUS are saved eternally to the uttermost and KEPT by the power of GOD...YOUR use of Hebrews 10 and the other 3 sets of verse to say one can LOSE salvation is false, out of context and twisted to push a dogma that the bible does not teach.....
 
PHart said:
I see you have no credible argument to disprove what I say. Just post the scripture that says believing is a work of the damnable works gospel and you will have won, and I will publicly acknowledge that you were right and I was wrong, and in it's own thread so everyone can see it.
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MAN.....lead is not as dense.....the fact that you teach you can lose it and MUST MAINTAIN IT YOURSELF or LOSE IT = a self reliant works based false gospel.....if you cannot see this we are done....until you can admit the truth about your stance this is just a waste of time and = high blood pressure.
 
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dcontroversal said:
The bible is clear...I am SECURE in HIS HANDS and KEPT by HIS POWER.....
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Everybody who believes is secure in his hands and kept by his power, for it is "through faith" that you are kept by the power of God (1 Peter 1:5). Yet you go on record as saying that to be 'kept by the power of God through faith' (1 Peter 1:5) means I'm trying to save myself. When did believing become a work of the damnable works gospel?
 
PHart said:
Everybody who believes is secure in his hands and kept by his power, for it is "through faith" that you are kept by the power of God (1 Peter 1:5). Yet you go on record as saying that to be 'kept by the power of God through faith' (1 Peter 1:5) means I'm trying to save myself. When did believing become a work of the damnable works gospel?
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post 37072......you believe you can lose it = you must do something to keep it = self reliant works based false gospel
 
dcontroversal said:
post 37072......you believe you can lose it = you must do something to keep it = self reliant works based false gospel
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I've long sided with you on OSAS, but over time have gone to the eternal security of the believer (genuine). I've been reading the word of God lately and there are so many warnings that such would be meaningless to give if there was no risk involved. I've learned that one can forsake the Lord, it is not that a man has lost it, but has chosen in his heart the evils of this world and has tossed aside the Lord for the lusts therein.
 
Very very sad to read this Ben :(



BenFTW said:
I've long sided with you on OSAS, but over time have gone to the eternal security of the believer (genuine). I've been reading the word of God lately and there are so many warnings that such would be meaningless to give if there was no risk involved. I've learned that one can forsake the Lord, it is not that a man has lost it, but has chosen in his heart the evils of this world and has tossed aside the Lord for the lusts therein.
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dcontroversal said:
ABSOLUTELY................HIS view summed up---->the faith and power of Christ is not sufficient...JESUS needs man's help to keep one saved......
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It was stated He did it (God saved us) instead of God just making salvation possible . Pharts response was "Lol, hardly" with more elaborating drivel.

Phart believes God only made salvation possible. To complete the transaction of possibility is up to phart.
 
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BenFTW said:
I've long sided with you on OSAS, but over time have gone to the eternal security of the believer (genuine). I've been reading the word of God lately and there are so many warnings that such would be meaningless to give if there was no risk involved. I've learned that one can forsake the Lord, it is not that a man has lost it, but has chosen in his heart the evils of this world and has tossed aside the Lord for the lusts therein.
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Well, "good luck" hope you hold out and make it in. It's all touch and go, the good news is only treacherous news at best. Try hard to help Jesus save you.
 
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UnderGrace said:
Very very sad to read this Ben :(
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Sorry to disappoint you, those words hit me right in the stomach. I do believe in eternal security for the believer. The debate then is whether one's belief is sincere, and that is a task the Bible tells us to look into. To examine ourselves, to make sure of our calling and election. To be fruit inspectors of ourselves. I, no doubt, hold to our salvation is by grace through faith.
 
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