Not By Works

[PHart]

if you truly believed Jesus keeps you saved, you would never think you could lose it.

Actually, it goes like this: If I keep believing Jesus keeps me saved I will never lose it.

 

[UnderGrace]

What do you keep believing?

I am sorry perhaps I have asked already but this thread is too long to find it or remember

Actually, it goes like this: If I keep believing Jesus keeps me saved I will never lose it.

 

[PHart]

I absolutely see what you are saying it is still so so baffling to me though

The person who led me to the Lord when I was in University ( a reformed baptist btw) taught me via scripture that I was secure in Jesus and right away I just knew it was Truth, I just find it baffling that someone would argue against it, being secure in Christ really is the Good News, there is no Good News otherwise.

EVERY believer is secure in Christ.
Those who presently believe are presently saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-2). It is the former believer that is not secure in Christ.

 

[preacher4truth]

"Actually, it goes like this: If I keep believing Jesus..."

"...then I'll make it to heaven. If not I'll not make it. Jesus didn't do enough to actually save me, He just made it possible."

Yes, we get it phart.

 

[UnderGrace]

So are you saying you have to keep believing you are saved to be saved?

What do you keep believing?

EVERY believer is secure in Christ.
Those who presently believe are presently saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-2). It is the former believer that is not secure in Christ.

 

[VCO]

Ummmm, what is a "flat eat there"?

Make mine with garlic cheese sauce, mushrooms and pepperoni.

 

[preacher4truth]

I absolutely see what you are saying it is still so so baffling to me though

The person who led me to the Lord when I was in University ( a reformed baptist btw) taught me via scripture that I was secure in Jesus and right away I just knew it was Truth, I just find it baffling that someone would argue against it, being secure in Christ really is the Good News, there is no Good News otherwise.

Wow a Reformed Baptist (a Calvinist) led you to Christ yet you liked a poster on here and agreed calvinists don't believe in the great commission (evangelism)???????

Unbelievable seeing the amount of hypocrisy here, slight, divisiveness and ingratitude.

 

[PHart]

What do you keep believing?

I am sorry perhaps I have asked already but this thread is too long to find it or remember

I keep believing that my sins are forgiven through the blood of Christ. That's why my sins are forgiven through the blood of Christ....I believe and trust in the blood of Christ to do that.

That's what justification/salvation is....believing that your sins are forgiven in Jesus Christ and God applying that forgiveness to you because you are believing in it to do that for you. Going back to unbelief is not how you believe that your sins are forgiven in Jesus Christ.

Having faith is the condition for having the forgiveness of God in Christ. Why do people think that's a work of trying to save oneself????? Paul clearly said that is exactly how you get justification--by believing. But I'm being told here believing is the work that Paul said can not justify.

 

[PHart]

Make mine with garlic cheese sauce, mushrooms and pepperoni.

...and anchovies. Lot's of anchovies.

 

[VCO]

If my continued believing is me earning my own salvation then I, and everyone else who has believed, was earning our salvation when we first believed.



Lol, I believe Jesus keeps me saved, too. That's why I keep believing in Him.

Genuine Saving Faith is a Personal LOVING Relationship with JESUS CHRIST as LORD (means MASTER), not something you keep doing. You don't keep doing a relationship, a LOVING RELATIONSHIP IS SOMETHING YOU HAVE.

 

[VCO]

...and anchovies. Lot's of anchovies.

I told you all that moonshine would ruin your tastebuds. LOL

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually, it goes like this: If I keep believing Jesus keeps me saved I will never lose it.

Then it is simple. You are attempting to save yourself by your ability to believe. Not in Gods ability to keep you saved.

Stop denying it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EVERY believer is secure in Christ.
Those who presently believe are presently saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-2). It is the former believer that is not secure in Christ.

Not according to you. They are only secure in themeselves

Because God can let them down, causing them to lose faith.

 

[UnderGrace]

Okay I understand you better, but I do not agree

I am going to be honest, but this reminds of what I was taught in the Roman Catholic Church

The truth is Justification is a one time event

So in summary your view is one has to believe they are saved to continue to be saved

Well I can be honest and tell you as a former Catholic there is no rest there ... I hope you will spend some time really searching out what it means to be justified

All of us can keep harping on it but ultimately you have to do it yourself ...

I will share that finally understanding what it means to be under grace and justified has transformed my walk with Jesus, I hope you will search it out for yourself

I keep believing that my sins are forgiven through the blood of Christ. That's why my sins are forgiven in Christ....I believe and trust in the blood of Christ to do that.

That's what justification/salvation is....believing that your sins are forgiven in Jesus Christ and God applying that forgiveness to you because you are believing in it to do that for you. Going back to unbelief is not how you believe that your sins forgiven in Jesus Christ.

Having faith is the condition for having the forgiveness of God in Christ. Why do people think that's a work of trying to save oneself????? Paul clearly said that is exactly how you get justification--by believing. But I'm being told here believing is the work that Paul said can not justify.

 

[dcontroversal]

And of course there's no chance possible whatsoever that the problem is you are simply not comprehending what they are saying, right? Is there even the slightest room in your thinking for that possibility? You know, that you're just not getting the argument?

Teachable people always leave room for something they had never thought of and just don't instantly reject opinions and beliefs that are different than their own. That may be the biggest lesson I've learned from on-line forums. There's always the potential that someone sees things differently and more accurately than I. And I have learned lots of things by recognizing this truth.

The number 1 rule for a teachable person: Give those with different beliefs the honest courtesy of, first, just simply understanding their argument. But what I see mostly in on-line forums is people resisting and rejecting any and all opposing thought right off the bat simply because it does not agree with what they already believe. That person will never grow. In fact, they will shrink down further and further into the deeds of the flesh--envy, strife, rage, jealousy, bitterness, unforgiveness...

Are you dense....I understand clearly that you teach you can lose or forfeit salvation based upon what YOU DO or DO NOT DO...it is false....your view usurps JESUS and his power, rejects verb tense, rejects scripture in context, rejects context, enthrones you above JESUS, calls God a liar, and reduces JESUS to an inept weak savior that cannot keep one saved to the uttermost and by his power.

Wake up to being KEPT by the POWER of GOD and saved ETERNALLY to the UTTERMOST....your false gospel does not measure up to known facts from the word...end of story!

 

[VCO]

Many do walk away from God, BUT many also go back to Him eventually. Does leaving God temporarily mean that they aren't saved anymore, or even never were saved to begin with?? Even if they leave Him forever, He still knows their hearts and their reason(s) for leaving.. I believe in a Shepherd who welcomes us back into His fold. Not one who says, "sorry, you mucked up, you had your chance and blew it"..

Just my simple opinion.

No those a Prodigals, who always do repent and come back, and those that NEVER do come back, only prove they NEVER were genuine Christians in the first place.

 

[dcontroversal]

I absolutely see what you are saying it is still so so baffling to me though

The person who led me to the Lord when I was in University ( a reformed baptist btw) taught me via scripture that I was secure in Jesus and right away I just knew it was Truth, I just find it baffling that someone would argue against it, being secure in Christ really is the Good News, there is no Good News otherwise.

Kept by his power states it all....one who believes he can do something to cause himself to lose salvation states clearly that God is a liar and inept, weak and CANNOT KEEP YOU BY HIS POWER....it dethrones JESUS, enthrones SELF and empowers oneself over the power and ability of GOD....serious.

 

[PHart]

"...then I'll make it to heaven. If not I'll not make it. Jesus didn't do enough to actually save me, He just made it possible."

Yes, we get it phart.

He made it possible through faith, not 'through nothing', as so many in the church now think.

I've asked numerous times but no one seems to be able to provide chapter and verse that explains how believing is a work of the damnable works gospel that can not justify and is the equivalent of one trying to save themselves. You know why it's not being posted? It doesn't exist. What does exist is the scripture that explains how it is believing that justifies a person, not works, not nothing at all, but believing.

"4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness" (Romans 4:4-5 NASB)
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Why is the church now saying 'believing' does not justify and is now the very work that can not justify that Paul is contrasting 'believing' with in the above passage?

I'm being told that if I have to do what Paul says to be justified (be credited with right standing with God) then I'm trying to earn my own justification/salvation. That's not what the passage says.

 

[dcontroversal]

EVERY believer is secure in Christ.
Those who presently believe are presently saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-2). It is the former believer that is not secure in Christ.

Wrong again........KEPT BY HIS POWER....your out of context deceit denies this...there is NO being saved and LOSING IT or forfeiting it.....what a weak, inept god you serve......

 

[PHart]

Kept by his power states it all....one who believes he can do something to cause himself to lose salvation states clearly that God is a liar and inept, weak and CANNOT KEEP YOU BY HIS POWER....it dethrones JESUS, enthrones SELF and empowers oneself over the power and ability of GOD....serious.

Does Jesus do your believing for you? Or did Jesus give you the faith--the ability--so you can do your believing/trusting?

Which is it, dcon? Are you a Calvinist and believe that you're just a pre-programmed puppet in the hands of God? Or are you a freewill creature able to make choices?