Not By Works

[PeterJens]

you yourself have started a thread which you titled ' faith & works are two sides of the same coin of salvation ' and also ' we get to Heaven because we are holy' . these are your words in your threads.

so, based on your first sentence, you have not met yourself??

I think you have have not understood properly.

Let me go through this slowly.
As a believer who has repented and been washed by the blood of Christ your are Holy.

So you enter heaven because sin has been cleansed from you.

What you are saying is no, that cannot be true, we are never Holy.
Well then my friend, you will never enter heaven and the cross is powerless to cleanse us.

Now the thing that stops you understanding is we stand righteously because Jesus cleansed
us through the blood.

You cannot believe God can see you as holy, justified, precious, a gift, a son of God,
wonderfully made, one with His son.

Can a purified Holy item in the temple become defiled again? Yes, but it can also be
cleansed. What you do is say, a human is never cleansed it is just a fake washing,
the deep sin is never washed out until we have a new body. That is not how God
sees us.

So it is you who does not understand or see.
You love to come out with these earth shattering non-statements. God bless you
I pray you come to realise Jesus offers you something so precious and wonderful,
you just have to walk in it.

 

[PeterJens]

you yourself have started a thread which you titled ' faith & works are two sides of the same coin of salvation ' and also ' we get to Heaven because we are holy' . these are your words in your threads.

so, based on your first sentence, you have not met yourself??

The above is just another sinner not believing he can be saved.

Did the woman caught in adultery think, "I am still a sinner so I will go back and continue
sinning", or did they follow Christ and become a dear friend?

I think this was Mary Magdalen who gave so much to her Lord, and is our hero in many
ways of what it means to be forgiven and accepted.

 

[TruthTalk]

Luke22:24-27

A dispute also arose among them as to which of them was considered to be greatest. Jesus said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves."

Jesus say's the one who rules is like the one who serves. Shocking news to His disciples, they wanted prominence, instead Jesus told them if you want to be great in my kingdom, be like a waiter serving tables. Isn't that the same as it is today in some Churches and occasionally on this thread, we want the prominent positions and we want it now. In the corporate world it is a fight to the top and then stay there. In the Church it is a fight to the bottom and remain humble, serving tables.

My point, when you begin attendance at a new Church fellowship an wish to become a new member what do you do? Take a new membership class right. And what are your qualifications for membership; all of my many great works for God, no! Your qualifications for membership is, I am a born again believer, baptized and serving God (tables) for 50 years. If you begin attendance at a new fellowship with blazing saddles you will find your stay difficult.

I like how dcon phrases our life in Christ; "it is from Faith to Faith all about God" we are saved unto good works prepared by God beforehand that we should walk in them, we are not saved by our good works nor do they keep us saved.

God bless

 

[gb9]

I think you have have not understood properly.

Let me go through this slowly.
As a believer who has repented and been washed by the blood of Christ your are Holy.

So you enter heaven because sin has been cleansed from you.

What you are saying is no, that cannot be true, we are never Holy.
Well then my friend, you will never enter heaven and the cross is powerless to cleanse us.

Now the thing that stops you understanding is we stand righteously because Jesus cleansed
us through the blood.

You cannot believe God can see you as holy, justified, precious, a gift, a son of God,
wonderfully made, one with His son.

Can a purified Holy item in the temple become defiled again? Yes, but it can also be
cleansed. What you do is say, a human is never cleansed it is just a fake washing,
the deep sin is never washed out until we have a new body. That is not how God
sees us.

So it is you who does not understand or see.
You love to come out with these earth shattering non-statements. God bless you
I pray you come to realise Jesus offers you something so precious and wonderful,
you just have to walk in it.

I see and understand just fine. this is not about me. I did not write the first sentence of post # 35919. you did. I did not start and write the titles of the 2 threads you started. you did.

it is not me who has to explain this contradiction.

 

[TruthTalk]

The Mission in 1906

By: James Hudson Taylor
A Retrospect - 1895

"It will not do to say that you have no special call to go to China. With these facts before you and with the command of the Lord Jesus to go and preach the gospel to every creature, you need rather to ascertain whether you have a special call to stay at home." - J Hudson Taylor​

The amazing fruit that God produce in a brief 10 year period through a humble servant named,
James Hudson Taylor;

The events sketched in the last two chapters have been more fully delineated by Miss Guinness in her interesting Story of the China inland Mission, which continues its history to the year 1894. It is indeed a record of the goodness of God, every remembrance of which calls for gratitude and praise. We can only here briefly mention a few facts, referring our readers to Miss Guinness’s work for all details.

After a voyage of many mercies the Lammermuir party safely reached China, and during the first ten years stations and outstations were opened in many cities and towns in four provinces which hitherto had been unreached by the Gospel. At home Mr. and Mrs. Berger continued their devoted service until March 19th, 1872, I having returned to England the year before. Shortly after this the London Council was formed, which was now for several years been assisted by an auxiliary Council of ladies. A Scotch Council was also formed in Glasgow a few years ago.

A visit to America in 1888 issued in the formation of the Council for North America, and a similar Council for Australasia was commenced in Melbourne two years later. In the field a China Council was organized in 1886, composed of senior missionaries who meet quarterly in Shanghai.

Closely associated with the C.I.M. are six Committees—in England, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Germany, and the United States—which send out and support their own missionaries, who in China have the assistance of the educational and other advantages of the C.I.M. and who work under its direction.

From that date until the Boxer outbreak of 1900 the Mission made steady progress, but during that terrible year, when no fewer than 135 missionaries and 53 missionaries’ children and many thousands of Chinese Christians were cruelly murdered, the China Inland Mission lost 58 missionaries and 21 missionaries’ children.

The year 1894, in which the first edition of a Retrospect appeared, was marked by the erection of large and commodious premises for the work of the Mission, and early in the following year the houses in Pyrland Road, which had so long formed the home of the Mission in England, were vacated, and Newington Green, London, N., became the address of the Mission offices and home.

From that date until the Boxer outbreak of 1900 the Mission made steady progress, but during that terrible year, when no fewer than 135 missionaries and 53 missionaries’ children and many thousands of Chinese Christians were cruelly murdered, the China Inland Mission lost 58 missionaries and 21 missionaries’ children.

In the overruling providence of God all these things have been made to fall out rather for the furtherance of the Gospel, and on all hands in China there are opportunities for Christian work as never before. A brief comparison of the China Inland Mission statistics of January 1st, 1900, before The Boxer Outbreak, and January 1906 will reveal progress made.

Jan. 1, 1900 / Jan 1, 1906​

• C.I.M. Missionaries (including wives) 811 / 827​
• Stations 171 / 205​
• Outstations 223 / 632​
• Chapels 387 / 827​
• Paid native helpers 581 / 888​
• Unpaid native helpers 193 / 394​
• Communicants in fellowship 8,557 / 14,078​
• Baptized from commencement 12,964 / 21,648​
• Organized churches 266 / 476​
• Boarding-school scholars 788 / 1,166​
• Day-school scholars 1,382 / 1,831​
• Hospitals 6 / 7​
• Dispensaries 18 / 37​

Opium refuges 46 / 101

Written by: James Hudson Taylor

​

 

[SovereignGrace]

ENOUGH with the stupid video clips already.

They are not stupid. They are very useful to showing ppl they're trying to work themselves to heaven.

They are causing LAG and LOCKUPS, and my internet speed is 50 Mbps Down.

Either buy a better internet modem or put me on ignore.

Its your call.

 

[PeterJens]

I see and understand just fine. this is not about me. I did not write the first sentence of post # 35919. you did. I did not start and write the titles of the 2 threads you started. you did.

it is not me who has to explain this contradiction.

You have not explained what you see as a contradiction my friend.
Else what you are saying is a contradiction itself.

I suspect you separate out some ideas which I do not, so you need to
explain what you are doing in your mind and what I am doing that creates this
problem for you.

 

[VCO]

The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
James 5:16

Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing.
1 Tim 2:8

These two verses imply one thing. We are cleansed, righteous and holy.

If you were a jew at the time of the temple. the priests washed and purified were deemed
holy. So much so, they were careful to stay undefiled because purification took days.
It is why they did not enter into the palace when asking for the death of Jesus,
because the sabbath was coming.

This idea of being Holy, acceptable was imprinted on their minds.
What is imprinted on our minds is how big a failure we are, lost and burdened in sin,
so easily broken and led astray. But in Christ this need not be so.

But you need to learn and listen, exercise will, control, focus.
So many jokes through the generations is you cannot take a sinner, lost empty and
driven just by carnal passions and teach them how to live a good life.

It is what people referred to as culture, and what led into the great world wars with
the idea we would never have a war like this ever again.

In part they were right. But machines and automation had created such a beast, anything
was now possible, so the normal constraints on the individual or group no longer existed.
One person could kill 100,000 people with the press of one button.

These were good people following the Lord. Now with wealth, security, as a culture we have
left these sentiments far behind, and now an injustice is used to call for the abolition of any
morality or focus on walking in Jesus ways. You can see how far the rot has come, now even
to talk about the glorious ways of the Lord is condemnation for some.

ONLY GOOD WORKS AND DEEDS DONE OUT OF THE PURE MOTIVE OF LOVE, ARE OF ANY VALUE TO GOD.


1 Corinthians 13:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.



[video=youtube;_73NU6OlNuw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_73NU6OlNuw[/video]

 

[TruthTalk]

They are not stupid. They are very useful to showing ppl they're trying to work themselves to heaven.

Either buy a better internet modem or put me on ignore.

Its your call.

I like your GIF's Sovereign, not sure if they take up that much bandwidth but my computer is working just fine. Thought I would add my 2 cents worth.

 

[BillG]

The above is just another sinner not believing he can be saved.

Did the woman caught in adultery think, "I am still a sinner so I will go back and continue
sinning", or did they follow Christ and become a dear friend?

I think this was Mary Magdalen who gave so much to her Lord, and is our hero in many
ways of what it means to be forgiven and accepted.

I love the story of the adulteress woman's encounter with Jesus.
Here we have this lady (but not the man) and Jesus saw right through it.
What amazes me is that Jesus puts the accusers in their place and deals so lovingly with the accused.

John 8:7-11


7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”
8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”
11 She said, “No one, Lord.”
And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

Jesus would he known that woman was guilty, but Jesus knew also that the accusers were guilty as well.

Deuteronomy 17:6-8
6 Whoever is deserving of death shall be put to death on the testimony of two or three witnesses; he shall not be put to death on the testimony of one witness. 7 The hands of the witnesses shall be the first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So you shall put away the evil from among you.
8 “If a matter arises which is too hard for you to judge, between degrees of guilt for bloodshed, between one judgment or another, or between one punishment or another, matters of controversy within your gates, then you shall arise and go up to the place which the Lord your God chooses.

I would assume that that there were no witnesses to this, other than than man. If there were then they were peeping toms.

Both the man and the woman were to be presented.

Me thinks Jesus knew that there were no witnesses or the number required to invoke the punishment.
If memory serves me, under the OT if one was to bear false witness then they were to suffer the same punishment for which the accuser would have received.

In the case death by stoning as their sin was bearing false witness.

Hence given Deuteronomy above "Let he who has not sinned cast that first stone"

With regard to woman, I don't think Jesus was excusing her sin or overlooking it

Under the law Jesus could not condemn her because he would not have been a witness to the accused crime.
He lets her know that he cannot condemn her but he also notes she has committed adultery. She hadn't refuted that or contested that.

When she says no Lord then he says "Go sin no more"
To me what stands out is she calls him "Lord"
I don't think he is talking about sinless perfection here, if so then there would be no need for him to die.

She has called him Lord he says go sin no more and finishes with

John 8:12


12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

I think through this episode she saw the light, the light shone in the darkness and she went away knowing who is the light and wanted to walk in (of course I am surmising here as we have no evidence that she did, I base this on her calling him Lord)

 

[PeterJens]

ONLY GOOD WORKS AND DEEDS DONE OUT OF THE PURE MOTIVE OF LOVE, ARE OF ANY VALUE TO GOD.


1 Corinthians 13:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.



[video=youtube;_73NU6OlNuw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_73NU6OlNuw[/video]

To be honest, anything believers do out of love brings glory to God.
These are free gifts to others, not to justify but a beacons of light in a dark world.

So why do you even try and grade acts of love? When you look after a child you
do not grade what you need to do, you do what is needed.

 

[PeterJens]

I love the story of the adulteress woman's encounter with Jesus.

As a kid this story shone out to me, of Jesus and emotional understanding.
It still shines today.

Why I think this is Marys story, is how John writes about Mary and her great
debt to Jesus. I think even for the disciples to have a repentant jewish woman
in their midst with such a history, was not something they were proud of.

It is probably why only John writes about Mary and the situation of the close
relationship with Jesus they all had, Mary, Martha and Lazarus.

 

[dalok6800]

As a kid this story shone out to me, of Jesus and emotional understanding.
It still shines today.

Why I think this is Marys story, is how John writes about Mary and her great
debt to Jesus. I think even for the disciples to have a repentant jewish woman
in their midst with such a history, was not something they were proud of.

It is probably why only John writes about Mary and the situation of the close
relationship with Jesus they all had, Mary, Martha and Lazarus.

There is nothing in the text of John 8 that indicates the woman caught in Adultery was Mary Magdalene.

The Bible does not state that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. Luke 8 says 7 demons were cast from her, but does not say who casted them out or what the demons were.

Mary of Bethany, the Sister of Martha and Lazarus was not Mary Magdalene

 

[UnderGrace]

I left the Catholic Church a long time ago ...thank you, but I am not going back


Like I said in your theology, you are trying to save yourself, because you have stipulated the onus is on you

to keep believing, thereby denying the authority of God to keep you (as adopted son or daughter)

once you have become His

To even say "keep believing or you will loose your salvation" denies the very nature of the new birth

and the benefits/results that the new birth brings

Yep. Keep believing in Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

There is nothing in the text of John 8 that indicates the woman caught in Adultery was Mary Magdalene.

The Bible does not state that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. Luke 8 says 7 demons were cast from her, but does not say who casted them out or what the demons were.

Mary of Bethany, the Sister of Martha and Lazarus was not Mary Magdalene

The truth is it does not actually matter, but I do find it interesting how the story
of the woman caught in adultery is a late addition.

And there is a large difference between women who get put outside society because they
are divorced by their husbands and find they have no support, so tend to go from one relationship
to another. Without any social support, if ones arranged marriage goes south, what do you do?
We tend to look at things from a modern perspective, where the idealised rich can live according
to a certain set of social morals, while the poor often had to just make do.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Temporary derail for a moment of humor:





Hee hee hee...

 

[TruthTalk]

Temporary derail for a moment of humor:

View attachment 174288



Hee hee hee... View attachment 174289

Nice derail blue, laughter is needed here at times, we can get back on track as needed....

 

[preacher4truth]

Sounds like some need to come to believe, and leave their false belief that they control their destiny by an effort to keep on believing.

To continue on in the latter isn't biblical belief and it isn't believing the Gospel.

It is a remarkable thing though, how twisted the workers make the Gospel, and cannot back up their ideology with any authorities that "continuing to believe" is something a person must "do" in order to get themselves in.

No, sorry, 1 Corinthians 15:2 does not teach what they are saying it teaches.

 

[TruthTalk]

Sounds like some need to come to believe, and leave their false belief that they control their destiny by an effort to keep on believing.

To continue on in the latter isn't biblical belief and it isn't believing the Gospel.

It is a remarkable thing though, how twisted the workers make the Gospel, and cannot back up their ideology with any authorities that "continuing to believe" is something a person must "do" in order to get themselves in.

No, sorry, 1 Corinthians 15:2 does not teach what they are saying it teaches.

Our calling is sure. someone once said if you are losing hope tie a not at the end of your rope and hold on. This is worldly wisdom and makes as much sense as the people who say keep believing in Jesus or you will lose your salvation.

"He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not because of our own works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time eternal." 2Timothy1:9

Trust in God not your wonderful works.

 

[preacher4truth]

Our calling is sure. someone once said if you are losing hope tie a not at the end of your rope and hold on. This is worldly wisdom and makes as much sense as the people who say keep believing in Jesus or you will lose your salvation.

"He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not because of our own works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time eternal." 2Timothy1:9

Trust in God not your wonderful works.

Ah, tricky! You threw in the Berean Study Bible version.