Not By Works

[PeterJens]

EG - Are you ever going to be honest?

If you claim we are saved because we respond in faith to Christ, repent of our sins and walk
in Christs ways then we are brothers in Christ.

You are the one who continually wants to say I do not know Christ or walk in His ways.
So please, if you want conversation, a little honesty about what I believe and what you
believe. If you cannot do this, it becomes this absurd posturing, which is always counter
productive, and does you no good.

What shows your error and heresy up, is condemnation of those who know the walk in
Christ they have is alive because they believe and have faith in Him.

Lose this faith, and all is lost. I know this is a bridge you cannot cross, because you believe
contradictatory positions, so I will never win you over, unless God moves in you to bring
revelation. So my friend, God bless you, however you wish to walk, I desire you might know
His love and beauty flowing through your life in all you do, Amen.

From the beginning many have talked with EG and he always ignores them and projects his own
theories and beliefs on to them, like I believe in works salvation, which clearly I do not.

But it takes a certain insight to let people alone, and not dictate to them their position even
when that is not true. But he does this to all the labelled opponents, and they all respond the
same way, what are you saying? It is simply not true.

 

[PeterJens]

To me if you have a supplemented Christ it is no Christ at all, just an empty blend of humanistic philosophies, with no spiritual value at all. It may make you feel good about yourself and the world around you, which is what religion tries to do, but it cannot save your soul, what do you think, looking for understanding not meaning to be disrespectful.

God bless

My friend, what do you mean by supplemented Christ.
We are saved to walk by His example.

We are not saved to continue in sin and evil behaviour.

Do you think that evil behaviour is to be expected from everyone all the time, and the
cross does not set you free to live a holy life?

And I am secure in Christ, as long as I stay in Christ. That is not a buddist belief or worldly philosophy.
Too many like the idea of a personal belief system that takes them to heaven, but actually loving and
acting on it is a step too far. Now that is truly a earthly philosophy, relativism, you believe what you
like when things are good, but dog eat dog when the going gets tough.

 

[TruthTalk]

My friend, what do you mean by supplemented Christ.
We are saved to walk by His example.

We are not saved to continue in sin and evil behaviour.

Do you think that evil behaviour is to be expected from everyone all the time, and the
cross does not set you free to live a holy life?

And I am secure in Christ, as long as I stay in Christ. That is not a buddist belief or worldly philosophy.
Too many like the idea of a personal belief system that takes them to heaven, but actually loving and
acting on it is a step too far. Now that is truly a earthly philosophy, relativism, you believe what you
like when things are good, but dog eat dog when the going gets tough.

I was look for understanding and clarity in what people believe but your tone has change so drastically that I am going to add you to my ignore list. Not looking to play this game.

 

[TruthTalk]

Notice to this thread PeterJens is on ignore. I did not come here to fight over faith issues just to find common ground.

Quote: Mr. Jens,
​"Now that is truly a earthly philosophy, relativism, you believe what you
like when things are good, but dog eat dog when the going gets tough."

 

[Locutus]

This is going well.

 

[PeterJens]

I was look for understanding and clarity in what people believe but your tone has change so drastically that I am going to add you to my ignore list. Not looking to play this game.

I have no problem being on you ignore list, I was looking for clarity as to the point
you are making. This is not a game, which you are implying.

Obviously you do not agree with me, but cannot put your point across clearly.
Now ofcourse if it creates anger and frustration in you, I have no problem with you avoiding
such antagonism.

I have known muslims respond similarly when challenged over their concept of corruption, which
was the excuse they used to reject everyone else, except it applied better to their own faith than
anyone elses. And tone, woe, people talk about tone, like this defines truth and reality.

I thought I was speaking to believers who know Christ and love. If fear is so prevalent, it makes
me wonder what type of faith is being expressed here.

At least hg appears to be fading, hopefully to be replaced by true reality of walking in Christs love.

 

[PeterJens]

Notice to this thread PeterJens is on ignore. I did not come here to fight over faith issues just to find common ground.

Quote: Mr. Jens,
​"Now that is truly a earthly philosophy, relativism, you believe what you
like when things are good, but dog eat dog when the going gets tough."

Now I have been silent for a month or so. I will throw out a provocative statement,
to test out where you are. The point of such forums is for us to be challenged and to
expand our understanding of the glory we have in Christ. But I do know for some this
is too much, maybe because of their lack of acedemic background or find faith a bit of
a dark room with only a little light streaming through.

I would hope to make this a blinding light filling your life with transforming power which
means you never look back but desire to press on in Christ.

 

[TruthTalk]

This is going well.

Yes it is and so are the millions of Americans that you called unfaithful yesterday,

Quote: From Locutus yesterday, do you ever has something kind to say.

Originally Posted by Locutus :
Good to hear you didn't get walloped "along with the unfaithful USA​" Muzungu.
But then all the smoke from the Rasta's probably created a high pressure ridge causing the hurricane to swerve towards the US and away from Jamaica.

Sipple really...

The unfaithful USA, and you are a Christian an ambassador for Christ on a world wide Christian forum. Where's the love.

U.S. Population (LIVE)

326,939,318

 

[PeterJens]

Notice to this thread PeterJens is on ignore. I did not come here to fight over faith issues just to find common ground.

Quote: Mr. Jens,
​"Now that is truly a earthly philosophy, relativism, you believe what you
like when things are good, but dog eat dog when the going gets tough."

By the way guys, this is a very mild testing of ideas and positions.
The world and evangelism can put ones life on the line. It is why it can
be good to take risks and put your faith out there, and see how others respond.

I remember when I first did this, it was hard. It is almost like going on your first date.
What happens if I get cut to ribbons? And the answer is so what, you are expressing
the most wonderful thing in your life, the love of Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good Morning E-grateful, (still morning in California). I read Mr.Jens post's and sometimes he seems to be okay with who Jesus is and how a person is saved from their sin's, like here;


Mr Jens
"We do have security in Christ through the cross and His promises, yet this is not enough for some. They want to be rebellious sinners, who hate God and still be saved. Bit of a problem when scripture says the opposite. God promises a blessing to those who follow Him, and hold on to His word and walk
in His ways."

But my comprehension runs thin when I read statements like this;

MrJens

"So the odd situation is we are being told we are not believers if we do not accept God haters can be saved because of some previous faith position, and we believers are actually doomed to hell. It is normal to put it like this, your friends are secure, your enemies are not. Even a child can understand this, but then they are very desperate, psychologically desperate to have security beyond a level any but universalists can deliver.

At times when I read Mr. Jens post his Christian doctrine seems to be mix with a bit of eastern philosophy and a lot of plain earthly wisdom. My wife is born again Christian but was raised and steeped in Buddhism from her child hood in Thailand.

To me if you have a supplemented Christ it is no Christ at all, just an empty blend of humanistic philosophies, with no spiritual value at all. It may make you feel good about yourself and the world around you, which is what religion tries to do, but it cannot save your soul, what do you think, looking for understanding not meaning to be disrespectful.

God bless

Peter and I have been discussing this for well over a year now. It started way back when, One of the major threads which got us going was this one peter started trying to argue against grace

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/132849-obedience-righteousness-extreme-grace-version-2.html

As you can see, I started to point out how people were misrepresenting what we actually are saying, And some people did not take that very well. and it got very heated, so bad in fact, I had to put him on ignore.

If you want to know what Peter believes, go take a look at the threads he has started, you can find them on his home page, just look up "threads recently started" You will see things like "the cross is not enough" and other stuff.

I keep praying for him, He seems so close. as you say, Yet he also says things I have never heard anyone or any church say before. so not sure what I am missing,

 

[PeterJens]

1. No one says saying

This always makes me laugh about EG.

He wants to come out with absolute statements which are just wrong.
It is like saying the words "always" and "never"
They are exagurations for effect, and that sums up all the response.
Fluff, denial, undermining, condemning.

And I spent months with EG accusing me of sin in general, with me asking what
in particular. I have had this from young believers bent on evangelism and you must be
unsaved to talk to them.

So in the end, thankfully he went silent, Amen, what a relief, God is very gracious to me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes it is and so are the millions of Americans that you called unfaithful yesterday,

Quote: From Locutus yesterday, do you ever has something kind to say.

Originally Posted by Locutus :
Good to hear you didn't get walloped "along with the unfaithful USA​" Muzungu.
But then all the smoke from the Rasta's probably created a high pressure ridge causing the hurricane to swerve towards the US and away from Jamaica.

Sipple really...

The unfaithful USA, and you are a Christian an ambassador for Christ on a world wide Christian forum. Where's the love.

U.S. Population (LIVE)

326,939,318

He is another one I have on ignore. Some people can not seem to talk without an attitude of How dare you disagree with me..

 

[PeterJens]

I like the tactic, refuse to engage because you lose and then claim the other side
are not listening.

It is just propoganda. And I will talk to anyone, the question really is can they actually
face the truth of what they are saying.

 

[TruthTalk]

Peter and I have been discussing this for well over a year now. It started way back when, One of the major threads which got us going was this one peter started trying to argue against grace

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/132849-obedience-righteousness-extreme-grace-version-2.html

As you can see, I started to point out how people were misrepresenting what we actually are saying, And some people did not take that very well. and it got very heated, so bad in fact, I had to put him on ignore.

If you want to know what Peter believes, go take a look at the threads he has started, you can find them on his home page, just look up "threads recently started" You will see things like "the cross is not enough" and other stuff.

I keep praying for him, He seems so close. as you say, Yet he also says things I have never heard anyone or any church say before. so not sure what I am missing,

Actually these are the biblical issues that I was hoping you would help me to understand about
Mr.Jens, thank you.

 

[TruthTalk]

He is another one I have on ignore. Some people can not seem to talk without an attitude of How dare you disagree with me..

Thank you again very much Eg, it's like the song goes, "getting to know you, getting to know all about you", its the same when you begin to worship at a new Church, there are all sorts of people who name the Name of Jesus Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I like the tactic, refuse to engage because you lose and then claim the other side
are not listening.

It is just propoganda. And I will talk to anyone, the question really is can they actually
face the truth of what they are saying.

one more time than I am done.

I refuse to engage because you refuse to listen to anything any of us say, after over a year, you are still demanding that we believe things we do not believe.

Once again, you refuse to look inside and see what your own issues are, but have no problems trying to blame everyone else.

if your going to get mad, get mad at yourself. and stop trying to blame everyone else for your own issues.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank you again very much Eg, it's like the song goes, "getting to know you, getting to know all about you", its the same when you begin to worship at a new Church, there are all sorts of people who name the Name of Jesus Christ.

sadly, if people would get to know us, and not just ASSUME they know what we believe, Many of these arguments would stop, and maybe just maybe we could actually discuss.

I learned the hard way if people will not take that time, it iss snot worth your time to try to converse with them.

like you said, if we do not take time to get to know people. we will never have a root of understanding to even converse with them, and we are at fault ourself.

 

[zeroturbulence]

But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

(Titus 3:9 NIV)


Just sayin'

 

[BillG]

Did Jesus love only those who loved Him back, or did Jesus Love Everyone?



Know you not that satan had her? If it were not for satan, she would have loved you, and cared for you and would never have thought of kicking you out. We all would do well to know who the enemy is. The enemy was not your mother, but satan who had your mother in his grips.



So satan had his paws on your foster dad too. What do you hate your foster dad for what he did? Know you not that satan has got a hold of him, feeding him lies, and making him think about things that he should not be thinking about? Was your foster dad that enemy or was the True enemy satan who had him bound?



Does satan hate that which is good? Yes. If then you are good soul, he is going to hate you, yes? He is going to try to corrupt that goodness in you, by treating you terribly. Darkness will always attack the light. But in the end light will overcome all darkness. But not now, but only then.



You were unable to love them, because you failed to see who the TRUE enemy was. Your Mom, and your foster dad were not the enemy. satan who had them bound, was the enemy. If satan wasn't present with your Mom, she would have loved you dearly. If satan was not present with your foster dad, he would have loved you the right way and nourished you and not abused you. Therefore the enemy is not your Mom, or your foster Dad, but satan who controlled them. If people would have this knowledge they would not be so quick to hate the people instead of hating the one who has bound those people.



You hated your Mother for kicking you out at 14, how do you know if she didn't kick you out then she would have accidentally killed you the next year? Do you know?

Your Mom had some real problems, She was addicted to alcohol, verbally abusive, never did anything wrong, blamed you for many things, sinking into a pit that she knows will kill her, all the while satan whispering to her continually "Your life would get better if you kick her out?" satan knows also that if she does, that he would whisper to you "Your mother hates you, that is why she kicked you out" and you believe his lies, and therefore hate her. People, wake up, the enemy is not people, it is satan.



How do i love those who hate me?

These things i force myself to think upon.

1) Jesus died for that person. Am i to hate someone who Jesus loves?
2) i feel sorry for that person, not hate. satan has them bound, they are in bondage to him.
3) Whatever i think about that person i think about Christ. Whatsoever you do to the least of these, you do to me.
4) Love those that hate you
5) Jesus COMMANDED me to Love One Another.

When someone does me awefully wrong, i think on these above things. i hate no one. i hate satan and his demons, i love and hate no person, because the Spirit has taught me to remember those above things in that list.

Without satan, your Mom would have been the best Mom in the world.
Without satan, you foster Dad would have been the best Foster Dad in the world.
Know the True enemy, it is not people that you are suppose to Love.



Love that, a sad story turned Good.



Forgiving takes a lot of work



Does it matter what i think or what i believe? NOT in the slightest. But what does Scriptures teach concerning those who do not forgive or do not Love One Another? That!! believe, and not what people teach.

i have asked many times, to those who believe Once Saved Always Saved, questions that they DO NOT answer, because if they did, they would see the error of their thinking and would have to change what they believe to line up with Scriptures and because they are unwilling to change they merely do not answer the questions i present to them. Here is one below.


Mat_6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: Mat_6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Tell me, if a person who is SAVED, and many years later that person is brutally raped, and that person even after many years after does not forgive that person for raping them, is that person still SAVED? How then can a person be Saved and NOT FORGIVEN? Can a person be Saved and at the same time NOT FORGIVEN? Can you answer these questions, those that believe OSAS?

What men teach is corruptible. What God teaches is TRUTH.

Anyone who does not forgive others, the Father in Heaven will NOT Forgive them, and it does not matter what they claim with their mouths, that they are Saved, washed by His Blood, under His Righteousness, that does not make void this inspired by God verse that plainly teaches if you do not forgive others, YOU will NOT be forgiven. PERIOD!!!

Scriptures also teaches this same thing about those who Hate others.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Hi DD,

I hope you are well.

With regard to your first sentence I do agree with you.
I did respond to an earlier post that Jesus told us to love our enemies and do good to those who hate you.

You said I was unable to love them because I failed to see who TRUE enemy was.
Here I agree and disagree but I think I can bring it full circle.

Here is where I disagree

I was unable to love because I was hurting and quite frankly at times suicidal.

If I can't love myself how can I love someone else, if I don't know the love of God for me how can I show that to others?
That above question whilst doesn't show agape love to others it does mean people can't show becuase they don't know it for themselves.

Here is where I agree with you.

Your right I failed to see who the TRUE enemy was.

With regards to my issues that I posted here is how they were resolved.
I won't go into the background details of my mum and foster dad in terms of their upbringing but for both of them it was not great.

With my mum I took a day out and came before God. I started early morning and prayed and asked God to bring everything to mind that I held agsinst my mum, that I had not forgiven. This he did and as he did I wrote every single one down.

I then spoke forgiveness over every single thing and as I did I crossed it if the list.
When the list was finished I then put it in the fire and burned it.
That whole process was painful.

I went to bed shattered hours later.
As I lay there as clear as day God said to me "Ask me how I feel about your mother"

I did that then all of a sudden a deep deep heaviness filled me. It consumed me, I cried solid from about 9 in the evening till I fell asleep about 6 the following morning.

I found myself praying for her, for healing and for salvation, for restoration betweeen her and me.
Before I fell asleep God said to me "That's just a glimpse of what I feel"

Praise God, a Muslim lady is now in Jesus and she is reconciled to God, and our relationship has been restored.
It wasn't until my mid 30's that she told me she loved me. Every time we speak and meet up it always ends up with "Love you"

With regards to my foster dad. Firstly I will say that I wasn't his first victim. He actually spent time in prison. For offences comitted whilst he ran a children's home.

How on earth I was fostered by him I have no idea, as it had to go through social services.

Now I know up I had unforgivness in my heart towards him. What natural person wouldn't?
Before he became poorly my family was meant to go and visit. I only went (when I could face it) because I loved my foster mum. As usual I made an excuse not to go.

My foster mum was upset. As I put the phone down and sat on the sofa God said to me "Let us go down and deal with this.
Three times he asked and three times I said no.
The fourth time it was like this "BILL WHAT PART OF US DO YOU NOT GET, ITS YOU AND ME, I WILL BE WITH YOU, NOW LETS GO"

So I did and when then one day when I was sat with him he did his usual and and got very aggressive towards me.
I just sat there and the unforgiveness that I held and came to mind I forgave.
Everything he threw at me I responded in love.
Then I asked him "How do you think God looks at you and thinks of you.

Then just like that he went from very aggressive to a madman speaking and shouting.
Then all of sudden I could see the demonic influence in his life. I could actually see it in his eyes.
All I could do was pray in my mind against that in my mind, as I did he went up a level. When I asked if I could pray for him he fled the house

When I got the call that he was seriously ill from the hospital about 300 miles away they asked me could I come down.
I said no. To me the minute he died I would be free.

Then that evening once again sat on the sofa God said to me "You have spoken forgiveness now let's go walk in it"

So I did. Prayed with him on his death bead (that was a miracle) sorted out his estate and spent £,000s of my own money doing so.

With regards to your questions about OSAS which you have answered yourself Anyway I will not respond to that here.
You preach if we die with unforgivness in our hearts then we are not forgiven therefore not saved.

Sorry but you lack total comapassion here as to why a person may be struggling with unforgivness.
You seem to assume that they should just get over it and forgive. You mention brutal rape and if the person raped has not forgiven before they die then they are not forgiven and ending up in hell?

I would encourage everyone not to judge the salvation of another believer.
I would encourage everyone who knows of others struggling with pain and hurt to come alongside. Bring healing in the name of Jesus.

I would encourage everyone to forgive, if it's hard call out to God, if you feel a prisoner to unforgivness and hurt and pain He will set you free.

To forgive is to set the prisoner free only to realise that prisoner is you.
When set free we can then walk in love, replace hate with love and be like Jesus.

It is he who works good in our circumstances to conform us to the image of Jesus.

 

[VCO]

You are running the race. But are you running in in patience? Is your faith in God and His finished works, or are you trusting your innate faith? If you are trusting your own faith, you will veer off course..


Some race so hard in that they try to maintain their faith so that they don't lose it and return to the darkness of sin, after so long struggling, they quit the race altogether, seeing its too hard for them...

But we are of those who finish the race, as we run it with patience...

Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith,[Hebrews 12:1,2a]

ENOUGH with the stupid video clips already. They are causing LAG and LOCKUPS, and my internet speed is 50 Mbps Down.