Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

oh we would agree 100 %

but then the questions ions must be answer,

are they lost because of sin, or lost because of lack of faith? Did sin have a bearing on their salvation? Or did lack of faith? (I am thinking of john 3 hear, why is a person condemned?)



I agree here also.





Amen i I agree here also,

but again, let's say a person is saved, and has been born of God, can sin have any bearing on their salvation. According to loveme1, yes, that is the discussion?

How can that be resolved in a way as not to teach works (it basically states we maintain salvation by our works, if we stop working and start sinning, salvation can be lost) from what I have been hearing anyway.

I will again stress.....regardless of semantics, slicing, dicing, icing and or how it is baked and decorated....ANY salvation that is losable and or that must be maintained by man is a WORKS BASED SALVATION not found in scripture.

 

[dcontroversal]

I think you really believe that and the Lord Himself telling you otherwise in His Testimony seems to fall on death ears.

You say you Trust fully Christ is sufficient the rest of us will run the race set before us and Let the Lord judge who is Faithful.

You just distinguished between fully trusting Christ and doing it your way......thanks...this speaks multitudes for those with eyes and ears....WOW....

 

[stonesoffire]

well its semantics
and addressing a specific situation.....

we are supposedly among brothers and sisters here...

if you say you were wicked and lived in sin....
then found God

and nothing changed

but now you feel safe
and good

and justify your sin through Gods grace.....

id say this person is lacking in faith and its evident by their works


but
works dont earn salvation



lets say this person found out they were going to die in a week

due to illness


and they seek God with what little time they have


EVEN without a bible in hand

is it possible for this person to be saved?

id say if its in Gods will
he could easily save them

but it would be through a true faith

Just a thought McGee...whosoevers who call on the name. Is this not a mustard seed?

 

[Meggido]

I'm sure dc will appreciate your efforts.

Ever notice that many here always seem to tell people...you do not know what I believe in...and I would agree with them....after 35,000 posts I still have no idea what they believe in, becuase it seems to change all the time...

 

[stonesoffire]

Ever notice that many here always seem to tell people...you do not know what I believe in...and I would agree with them....after 35,000 posts I still have no idea what they believe in, becuase it seems to change all the time...

Yet you say Dcon says the same thing over and over? And chastise him for it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post

Some say works have no impact on Salvation it is a one off can't be lost... that belief is not supported by Scripture.

____________


ill be honest eg

im not much of a teacher

i personally dont believe OUR works earn salvation in any way


im not sure about osas

and i think evidence of your faith can be seen through your walk compared to the fruits of the Holy spirit

(maybe some good actors who can fool us men, but no one will fool God)

i believe the same

but can works affect our salvation or not?

If it can, is that not a works based gospel?

I am not asking as a teacher bro, just how we can resolve it in a way it does NOT mean a works based gospel?

 

[dcontroversal]

Yet you say Dcon says the same thing over and over? And chastise him for it?

He does that regularly.....I have been consistent in my stance.....just as EG has as well as others.......just another mouthy response.....I have only put three on ignore in 4 years on this site.....and one who has noting but vitriol, a vendetta, mouthy remarks, some very deceptive moments and nothing but division.......makes my list as number three!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi E-grateful, If my Mom lay's out a bunch of homemade cookies on the counter to cool and she tells me don't touch the cookies; but I do and she catches me red handed eating the cookies, then I have sinned, right.

Example:
1) If I am saved I repent and confess my sin and accept any due punishment for not obeying Mom's instructions.

2) If I am not saved I feel remorse for having been caught and dread the consequence of my actions.

For the unsaved child, he is sorry that he got caught taking Mom's cookies too soon, but he does not hold any thought of; I have offended God or Mom for not obeying her instructions, just remorse for getting caught and the thought of the punishment to come, am I right so far.

"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins." Ephesians2:1

Conversely for the saved child he has thoughts of offending God plus his Mom, and then he repents and tells his Mom he knows it was wrong and he won't do it ever again.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1John1:9

Question: Is the application of repenting and confessing our sin, a work to keep us saved?

4) "You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
5) For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.
6) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is; faith expressing itself through love.

Same question as yours above: which is it; is repenting and confessing or sin a work to keep us saved or not?

To save you a little time just a yes or no answer is welcome.

No, because your not confessing to stay saved, or keep from losing it, or be restored to it,

your confessing bcause you you need to be open about your sin, and not hide it, otherwise, sin can gain a foothold, and that's never good. And you also want to be honest with your father because you love him

 

[NoNameMcgee]

i believe the same

but can works affect our salvation or not?

If it can, is that not a works based gospel?

I am not asking as a teacher bro, just how we can resolve it in a way it does NOT mean a works based gospel?

noo

we WILL have works

thats plain and simple
no matter what side we are on



are they of the flesh?
of the enemy?

or of the indwelling Holy spirit?


all OUR works are is evidence of where our faith lies
and who we serve

only the works of God produce salvation for those who can NOT earn it




Proverbs 24:16-18

16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

if the wicked man in mischief was a good enough liar who occasionally got caught

and the just man was honest with his stumbling



i wonder which of us could see the difference in "works"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think you really believe that and the Lord Himself telling you otherwise in His Testimony seems to fall on death ears.

You say you Trust fully Christ is sufficient the rest of us will run the race set before us and Let the Lord judge who is Faithful.

This is nuts, where did D.C. Say we do not have to run a race

this is getting quite ridiculous!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ever notice that many here always seem to tell people...you do not know what I believe in...and I would agree with them....after 35,000 posts I still have no idea what they believe in, becuase it seems to change all the time...

Yeah, prove it? Or just more hot water we have been here many years, and never changed our belief concerning g the gospel.

 

[TruthTalk]

No, because your not confessing to stay saved, or keep from losing it, or be restored to it,

your confessing bcause you you need to be open about your sin, and not hide it, otherwise, sin can gain a foothold, and that's never good. And you also want to be honest with your father because you love him

Thank you and I am sure God agree's that His children repent and confess our sin because we love Him; not because we are working hard to hold on to our eternal salvation. Thank you and God bless...

 

[Meggido]

I honestly do not remember who pointed this out to me, it was a few months ago, but if you read both their posts, they are very similar.

and , I have asked mr,jens about, he has not confirmed or denied it.

now, if someone asked me if I had another screen name, I would simply say " no " . because I do not. I think most of us, who are truthful, would do the same. the person in question here has a " interesting " view on truth, lies, and contradictions.

mrj007. think about that like mrj 007. makes sense , does it not.

we went through this last week with another poster and many of you wee proven wrong then about that psoter....do we really need to do this?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yet you say Dcon says the same thing over and over? And chastise him for it?

lol, thats what happens when your attacking things blindly, you keep doing this, then get exposed even more.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

noo

we WILL have works

thats plain and simple
no matter what side we are on



are they of the flesh?
of the enemy?

or of the indwelling Holy spirit?


all OUR works are is evidence of where our faith lies
and who we serve

only the works of God produce salvation for those who can NOT earn it




Proverbs 24:16-18

16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

if the wicked man in mischief was a good enough liar who occasionally got caught

and the just man was honest with his stumbling



i wonder which of us could see the difference in "works"

Amen, this is not an OSAS issue as people want t make it, t is just a gospel issue,

 

[Meggido]

also, satan said something , asking Eve if God said not to eat from the tree, and not touch the tree. God never told them to not touch the tree. another worker/ legalist trick- saying that the Lord said something He did NOT say.

Gen 3.1-3

Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?” [SUP]2 [/SUP]The woman said to the serpent, “From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; [SUP]3 [/SUP]but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’”


It was Eve who said she could not touch the tree and was saying that to Satan, not the other way around......

 

[PeterJens]

I honestly do not remember who pointed this out to me, it was a few months ago, but if you read both their posts, they are very similar.

and , I have asked mr,jens about, he has not confirmed or denied it.

now, if someone asked me if I had another screen name, I would simply say " no " . because I do not. I think most of us, who are truthful, would do the same. the person in question here has a " interesting " view on truth, lies, and contradictions.

mrj007. think about that like mrj 007. makes sense , does it not.

I do not see all the posts guys make.

I am myself and not mrj007.
And yes we hold a similar position and way of expressing ourselves.

Now I find that encouraging, that there is another who sees and know the simplicity of Christs
revelation.

 

[PeterJens]

By your words you are justified or condemned. Is not the measuring stick brotherly love? And you call the benefits of our salvation pie in the sky? Where do you see a gospel of defeat anywhere in any of his posts, or any of us who are in agreement about the topic of this thread, not by works?

Your mind is full of thoughts lofty in words only without substance.

If Jesus does not change us our hope is in vain.

The principle of transformation is that it is real.
If you read pilgrims progress, the issues have not changed from the time of Jesus.

If one abandons the testimony of the Holy Spirit alive in the soul of man, it is just
a belief, a crutch that supports a desperate and worried human.

Now many have taken this form of faith, and find the challenge of the words and ideas
attractive yet confusing.

And these thoughts are not mine but from scripture.

There is now no condemnation for those who walk in the Spirit of Christ.
And this Spirit does not lead you to sin.

So if you find yourself sinning it is not because of the Holy Spirit or the gospel working
its way through your life.

 

[gb9]

I do not see all the posts guys make.

I am myself and not mrj007.
And yes we hold a similar position and way of expressing ourselves.

Now I find that encouraging, that there is another who sees and know the simplicity of Christs
revelation.

o.k. I apologize to both of you for saying it.

 

[gb9]

Gen 3.1-3

Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?” [SUP]2 [/SUP]The woman said to the serpent, “From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; [SUP]3 [/SUP]but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’”


It was Eve who said she could not touch the tree and was saying that to Satan, not the other way around......

this is correct. I was in error with my earlier post. thanks for pointing this out.