Not By Works

[Stunnedbygrace]

I should have put perished in quotes in "it 'perished' in the heart of soil #2" to avoid the misunderstanding. What happens is the soil expels the word. And so in that way the word perishes:The soil is the problem. Not the word of God.

Plow up the hard ground of your heart.
Anyone who puts their hand to the plow and turns back is not fit for the kingdom of heaven.

 

[BillG]

Plow up the hard ground of your heart.
Anyone who puts their hand to the plow and turns back is not fit for the kingdom of heaven.

Hi SGB

Are you referring to

Luke 9:62


62 But Jesus said to him, “No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I think you've got this rage thing whipped.
You're on the right path.

Taking ownership of sin is essential to gaining Christ's victory over it. Rage was how I tried to conform everything and everybody to accommodate my comfort level (whether the comfort level was justified, or not, is not the point). Of course, I blamed everybody and everything for being unfair and wrong in provoking my rage, but in the end I had to take ownership of my response. God will deal one day with the things and people that provoke sin out of us. Our job is to deal with our sin. We are to leave room for God's wrath by us leaving the matter in his hands alone.

Yes, I'm sorry you were worried for me and trying to encourage me. I was trying to find something out.
But you do in fact encourage me.
You encourage me by your example, by not reviling back and by walking consistently in the Spirit in love. I've never seen you do it (revile back I mean).

 

[PHart]

If you are following His example, you are separate from His life. We are One with Him and move and speak out of unity.

No, we are to follow his example in obedience, like a wife follows her husband (yeah, I know, pretend this 1765, lol). The difference now than in the old covenant is we do that through the new way of the Spirit given to us through our faith in Christ.

"6But now, by dying to what once bound us (old husband and task master 'flesh'--see context), we have been released from the law (the authority that kept us bound to husband 'flesh') so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code (mere written words)." (Romans 7:6 NIV)

 

[stonesoffire]

I think you're missing my point, which began in a conversation with loveme1.
Just knowing what I am supposed to do and how I am supposed to be does not make me be that way. And in fact, if I try hard to be and do that way, I only fool myself by thinking my outward behavior is holiness.

Stunned, you have put yourself back under law by trying to control behavior.

You are not a murderer...you have a new nature. What you are not seeing is the renewed mind. These things that you are angry about are justified to be angry over. Someone isn't treating you right. Confrontation and discussing should be the way to settle.

Have you confronted your mother? And then I think that you look at others and see that they are not condemned in mind as you are allowing yourself to be, and that makes you angry too. But, this is actually at the Lord. Like why don't they do what I am doing.

Jesus already made the way for you to be free. Free from condemnation that comes from our own heart. That is by identifying with Jesus and His resurrection life only.

Then in working out your salvation....bless your enemies. If that is all you can do because of the process of renewing your mind, then that is enough for now. Eventually your conscience will agree with the testimony of the Cross, the blood, and the Resurrection life that is found only from Him.

This is what you came here in this thread first with, and you are still struggling with it. So eternally-grateful was correct. He saw beyond your words.

McGee gave you good advice. It's temptation and the devil is jabbing at you with all kinds of darts.

 

[stonesoffire]

No, we are to follow his example in obedience, like a wife follows her husband (yeah, I know, pretend this 1765, lol). The difference now than in the old covenant is we do that through the new way of the Spirit given to us through our faith in Christ.

"6But now, by dying to what once bound us (old husband and task master 'flesh'--see context), we have been released from the law (the authority that kept us bound to husband 'flesh') so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code (mere written words)." (Romans 7:6 NIV)

I'm not of those liberal women. I allow my husband the ultimate decision in matters of disagreement. And this is why our kitchen is taking months to be redone, because he won't hire a contractor, but cheap labor which doesn't pan out.

It's hard to keep quiet. lol

Following gives the picture of sheep and shepherd. Being one is the example of marriage. Come up a little higher Phart.

 

[PHart]

Yes, I'm sorry you were worried for me and trying to encourage me. I was trying to find something out.
But you do in fact encourage me.
You encourage me by your example, by not reviling back and by walking consistently in the Spirit in love. I've never seen you do it (revile back I mean).

I have. But I repented of it and said I'm sorry. I came from a forum that had Ghestopo like moderation and I went crazy with delight when I could speak my mind here. I have a sense of humor like you and I had a lot of fun with it for a while. But I regretted it and came back to my senses.

I give Christ all the credit for working such a good work in me over the years, here in forums like this and in my off-line life. I'm growing and gaining much assurance in my salvation by how I'm changing and it gives me great joy. When someone hits below the belt here I don't do anything, then I get flooded with the incredible joy of the Lord. I'm serious. I mean JOY! Unspeakable, and over flowing. I get high as a kite. All praise to Him! Obedience is the doorway into the abundance of God.

Now pray for me. I've boasted in the good work that the Lord has done and now I will be tested.

Thanks for your wonderful post.

 

[stonesoffire]

The law condemns them, via the Holy Spirit of God.

Believers are covered by the righteous blood of Jesus

And our own heart will condemn.....the old mind or way of thinking. Grace is greater always.

 

[PHart]

Following gives the picture of sheep and shepherd. Being one is the example of marriage. Come up a little higher Phart.

You're not going to like this and you're going to hate me for it, lol, but the Bible portrays the husband and wife relationship as that of employer/ employee. The benefits are just different, if you know what I mean.

 

[Locutus]

Yer need to put yer foot down with a firm hand Stones - and give him "cheap labour" food till the jobs done.


[video=youtube;O4X_bdJox8w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4X_bdJox8w[/video]

 

[stonesoffire]

Except for the "does not represent saving belief" part I agree with this.

Jesus said the person represented by the second kind of soil believed. There's no reason to think he did not really mean that. But we do know, clearly, that this person did not end in believing--he withered away. It ended up as James' 'dead faith', which James plainly said can not save.

We can argue if this person 'never really' believed to begin with, or that his believing failed somewhere along the line, but Jesus himself did say this person believed, even if it was just for awhile. I've become very critical of how the church has turned so many passages of scripture to 'not really' mean what they say. It has destroyed Christianity. Jesus plainly said this person believed (Luke 8:13).

The good soil are those who have been converted. Not hearers only but obeyers of the Gospel. There is our intial obedience. To believe and receive. I truly doubt that there are just hearers only on this site, though anything is possible.

But, would hearers only want to debate truth?

 

[PHart]

Stunned, you have put yourself back under law by trying to control behavior.

No she's not. She's trying to control her behavior by the power of God's presence by His Spirit. We're all learning to walk by the Spirit, not learning to walk by our own power. She's keenly aware that she has not the power in and of herself to do right.

You are not a murderer...you have a new nature.

Correct, she is not a murderer. But when/if she hates she has the spirit of murder in her, just as the lusting person has the spirit of adultery in them. But certainly, those things are not what she longs for and wants to entertain. At the very core of her being is a NEW woman who is absolutely in love with the things and ways of God. Her flesh is what doesn't want to love God and needs to be brought into submission to the Spirit.

Someone isn't treating you right. Confrontation and discussing should be the way to settle.

Maybe.
After a few tries, in the case of a hardened narcissist, you will have to rely on just being Christ-like around them. Confrontation will be counter productive. You have to give 'em up.

Have you confronted your mother? And then I think that you look at others and see that they are not condemned in mind as you are allowing yourself to be, and that makes you angry too. But, this is actually at the Lord. Like why don't they do what I am doing.

Jesus already made the way for you to be free. Free from condemnation that comes from our own heart. That is by identifying with Jesus and His resurrection life only.

Then in working out your salvation....bless your enemies. If that is all you can do because of the process of renewing your mind, then that is enough for now. Eventually your conscience will agree with the testimony of the Cross, the blood, and the Resurrection life that is found only from Him.

This is what you came here in this thread first with, and you are still struggling with it. So eternally-grateful was correct. He saw beyond your words.

McGee gave you good advice. It's temptation and the devil is jabbing at you with all kinds of darts.

Stunned knows all the passages of scripture. What will happen now is these passages will begin to be applied through real life practical situations. For me it was realizing that the fallout from my raging alienated people from me, not brought them near to me in peace as I intended. I knew all the scriptures, what I needed was a real life reason of why they are the truth. She will learn and be convinced with God's help, through her situations, that the scriptures are true and teach the best way for her to handle angry rage. She's already well on her way.

 

[stonesoffire]

Yer need to put yer foot down with a firm hand Stones - and give him "cheap labour" food till the jobs done.


[video=youtube;O4X_bdJox8w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4X_bdJox8w[/video]

Hilarious...thanks ...lol And is exactly how I would like to act. So now you all know why I spend all my time here cracking joke.

I can't stand to go downstairs and look at the kitchen now in our living room, and eating microwaved food. haha.

We really do laugh a lot about this. Husband too.

 

[PHart]

The good soil are those who have been converted. Not hearers only but obeyers of the Gospel. There is our intial obedience. To believe and receive. I truly doubt that there are just hearers only on this site, though anything is possible.

Don't you know that when you and others decide that only type #4 soil is saved soil that you condemn about 99% of us Christians, including yourself probably, to being not really saved? I'm convinced that most of us truly born again believers will spend the vast part of our lives struggling in #3 soil--the fruit of our belief, belief we really have but are growing up into, being choked out by our concern for houses, jobs, relationships, etc. If we all had to be soil #4 to be saved we are in a most pathetic religion, lol. We might as well go back to the way of the law.

But, would hearers only want to debate truth?

They will want to debate why we don't have to have works to be saved.

A hearer only is someone who, for example, watches 'Game of Thrones' and says it doesn't matter because "salvation is soooo not of works". They are safe....safe to do detestable things and still be saved.

 

[stonesoffire]

No she's not. She's trying to control her behavior by the power of God's presence by His Spirit. We're all learning to walk by the Spirit, not learning to walk by our own power. She's keenly aware that she has not the power in and of herself to do right.



Correct, she is not a murderer. But when/if she hates she has the spirit of murder in her, just as the lusting person has the spirit of adultery in them. But certainly, those things are not what she longs for and wants to entertain. At the very core of her being is a NEW woman who is absolutely in love with the things and ways of God. Her flesh is what doesn't want to love God and needs to be brought into submission to the Spirit.



Maybe.
After a few tries, in the case of a hardened narcissist, you will have to rely on just being Christ-like around them. Confrontation will be counter productive. You have to give 'em up.



Stunned knows all the passages of scripture. What will happen now is these passages will begin to be applied through real life practical situations. For me it was realizing that the fallout from my raging alienated people from me, not brought them near to me in peace as I intended. I knew all the scriptures, what I needed was a real life reason of why they are the truth. She will learn and be convinced with God's help, through her situations, that the scriptures are true and teach the best way for her to handle angry rage. She's already well on her way.

I didn't learn the things I am posting by reading a book Phart. I too have had to work out my salvation many times over, and still do. Its a life process.

But, identification with Jesus in His suffering, we have been released. The Cross takes care of these problems when we come to understanding that our human nature is circumcised from us and we do have a brand new nature...a new genesis of creation and do no longer exist as a fleshly human being

This started when a Pastor came to our house, we were hosting him in meetings. He told me this truth. We are no longer flesh but Spirit. I caught hold of that right away.

Its a truth hidden for a time...I pray we all catch the truth of what this awesome salvation that Jesus gives freely to all mankind is revealed. In a massive wave of Holy Spirit over all the earth.

And I do believe it is starting.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"...when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away." (Matthew 13:21 NASB)

thats because they never had faith, their roots were not grounded in the good soil, (Christ) but in th bad soil (something other than Christ.)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Keep it in your breast pocket, close to your heart.

or keep it in Christ, and not in something other than Christ.

 

[stonesoffire]

Don't you know that when you and others decide that only type #4 soil is saved soil that you condemn about 99% of us Christians, including yourself probably, to being not really saved? I'm convinced that most of us truly born again believers will spend the vast part of our lives struggling in #3 soil--the fruit of our belief, belief we really have but are growing up into, being choked out by our concern for houses, jobs, relationships, etc. If we all had to be soil #4 to be saved we are in a most pathetic religion, lol. We might as well go back to the way of the law.



They will want to debate why we don't have to have works to be saved.

A hearer only is someone who, for example, watches 'Game of Thrones' and says it doesn't matter because "salvation is soooo not of works". They are safe....safe to do detestable things and still be saved.

I said before I don't watch game of thrones so I don't know what you are viewing. I assume you are speaking of Jesus being Lord of our life.

What we don't realize is that when we are converted, we have made Him Lord. He seals us with His stamp of approval, chosen ones, and Holy Spirit begins the work of salvation of our SOUL. Body to if we will accept that He wants to heal today same as before when on earth. But, that's another thread I don't want to get into. A hot fire. Ill get burnt.

 

[PHart]

thats because they never had faith, their roots were not grounded in the good soil, (Christ) but in th bad soil (something other than Christ.)

Maybe, maybe not. Though Christ does make it clear that they believed.

But one thing is for sure, their believing did not go deep enough to withstand the trials of life. I simply argue that doesn't mean it was not true believing, just that it was weak believing prone to doubts and temptations. It didn't come to maturity as evidenced by fruit. Strong believing can endure more trouble. Weak believing, though it still secure the forgiveness of God, can not endure as much trouble.

 

[stonesoffire]

You're not going to like this and you're going to hate me for it, lol, but the Bible portrays the husband and wife relationship as that of employer/ employee. The benefits are just different, if you know what I mean.

No it doesn't. At least not in the new covenant of inheritance. Are you looking at the OT?