Not By Works

[garee]

He is not allowed to crucify Christ again. It's over for him. He can not come back to believing. This is assuming that the falling away of the second type of soil is literally a return to unbelief, which I think it is, and not just a hard day at the office. The third type of soil seems to represent the hard day at the office, so to speak, not a return to unbelief.

The good soil is the word of God it does not change. Its the foundation of the faith of God, as the faith coming from Him that we have toward him .

Why would we offer dead works ? Repentance is a living work of God.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

 

[PHart]

The good soil is the word of God it does not change.

No, the soil is the person's heart. The seed is the word of God.
Even though the word of God is imperishable, it perished in the heart of soil #2. God's word did not fail. The soil did.

Its the foundation of the faith of God, as the faith coming from Him that we have toward him .

God gives the free gift of faith. We respond with our trust, our believing.
See the difference? God does not do our believing for us. He gives us the gracious gift of faith (knowing something is true) so that we can then do our believing. But even our believing is coached and encouraged by God. We are not left alone to do our believing.

Why would we offer dead works ? Repentance is a living work of God.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

I don't understand your point.

 

[Limey410v2]

No, the soil is the person's heart. The seed is the word of God.
Even though the word of God is imperishable, it perished in the heart of soil #2. God's word did not fail. The soil did.



God gives the free gift of faith. We respond with our trust, our believing.
See the difference? God does not do our believing for us. He gives us the gracious gift of faith (knowing something is true) so that we can then do our believing. But even our believing is coached and encouraged by God. We are not left alone to do our believing.



I don't understand your point.

To say something God says does not perish, can perish is a contradiction.
The word of God does not contradict itself, so one of two things have occurred.
1.The contradiction exists.
2.Your interpretation is incorrect.

 

[dcontroversal]

I agree that no one can keep it and one sin means condemnation, which is why Jesus needs to save each one of us. But are you saying that the law is gone today? What is condemning us today? do we need salvation from sin today? Faith in Gods grace?
Did the Royal law (10 commandments), end at Christs death? Some laws did end at the cross because those laws were schoolmasters, they pointed to the cross and were symbols of the cross.
But the laws that tells us not to steal or kill are still valid today.

Not saying that at all....The law condems ALL who have not trusted into Christ and even Jesus said not one jot would pass till ALL is fulfilled....as far as sin goes...it is not the issue, sin has been dealt with at the cross and now the H.S. convicts the "world" of sin because "they believe not on me".....the issue is now faith into the cure all of man's fallen condition....obviously the entire LAW has been wrapped up in two....Love God, Love each other and in Christ with the love of God shed abroad in our hearts we can do both, however....this is not what saves us...it is the initial act of faith, void of any adherance to any law and void of any work that saves, seals, justifies, and sanctifies in Christ eternally.....bu way...peace from the U.S....just got back from a month stay in Penrith NSW

 

[dcontroversal]

So what is condemning those that don't have Jesus as their advocate?
Why do we need Jesus today? Why do we need to be in Jesus to not have condemnation?

Because when one is immersed into Christ by faith the following have taken place....

a. Every sin we will commit is nailed to the cross (not that God won't chastise because he whips every son whom he receives)

b. We are placed into a positioning of grace

c. Christ continually mediates for us as our advocate

d. Because of the positioning of grace...when sin abounds, grace did much more abound.

e. We have had the righteousness of Christ imputed by faith and in so doing have been rendered just.

f. It is the spirit that has been born again of incorruptable seed....

g. We are sanctified in Christ positionally and eternally

etc......

 

[TruthTalk]

"A PRAYER TIP"

Sunday Morning Sermon



by: Charles Spurgeon​

I like to open the Bible and pray, "Lord God, let the words leap off the page into my soul; make them vivid, powerful, and fresh to my heart."

"How are we to handle this sword of 'It is written'? First, with deepest reverence. Let every word that God has spoken be law and gospel to you. Never trifle with it; never try to evade its force or change its meaning. God speaks to you in this book as much as if he came to the top of Sinai and lifted up his voice with thunder.

I like to open the Bible and pray, 'Lord God, let the words leap off the page into my soul; make them vivid, powerful, and fresh to my heart.'

Our Lord Himself felt the power of the Word. It was not so much the devil who felt the power of 'It is written" as Christ Himself. The manhood of Christ felt an awe of the Word of God, and so the Word became a power to Christ. To trifle with Scripture is to deprive yourself of its aid. Reverence it, and look up to God with devout gratitude for having given it to you.

A Prayer Tip​

"AS THE DEER PANTS AFTER THE WATER BROOKS

SO MY SOUL THIRSTS FOR THEE, O GOD"

Psalm42:1
​

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

So what is condemning those that don't have Jesus as their advocate?
Why do we need Jesus today? Why do we need to be in Jesus to not have condemnation?

I should read the posts from while I am sleeping, but your post is intriguing!
It is too much to cover all at once.
On second thought, I want to read any answers first.

 

[PHart]

To say something God says does not perish, can perish is a contradiction.

I should have put perished in quotes in "it 'perished' in the heart of soil #2" to avoid the misunderstanding. What happens is the soil expels the word. And so in that way the word perishes:

Even though the word of God is imperishable, it perished in the heart of soil #2. God's word did not fail. The soil did.

The soil is the problem. Not the word of God.

 

[TruthTalk]

buy the way...peace from the U.S....just got back from a month stay in Penrith NSW

Wecome home troupe...

 

[PHart]

Why do we need Jesus today? Why do we need to be in Jesus to not have condemnation?

His ministry must continue for it to do what it is to do for us. Just because His sacrifice does not have to be repeated and is a 'one time for all time' sacrifice does not mean the ministry of that Sacrifice doesn't have to continue. We access the continuance of that ministry through our continued faith, and thus, it continues to intercede on behalf of those who believe, not those who used to believe:

"23The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing, 24but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently. 25Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

26For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; 27who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself." (Hebrews 7:25 NASB)


​

The point being, Christ's ministry must continue. It was not completed in the sense that it can stop interceding for us because we were already saved by it (which we are). It must continue on our behalf. And it continues on our behalf as it must through our continued believing.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

What does being angry at them give you? Is it a feeling of justice for being wronged? Does it protect you?

Knowing this will help you in why you choose to let it lead you.

God morning Cee!

Anger at others gives me...my self life, my pride, my feeling that I should be honored and treated well, my little kingdom over which I rule and go to war if someone encroaches on it.

No! It doesn't protect me. It is the opposite of laying down my life to find my life. And it is the opposite of giving up my life for my brother/loving.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Whoever breaks the least of the commands is guilty of the whole law,

don't focus on that, it just means your like the rest of us guilty, give it to God and move on, if need be, find a sister in Christ who can help you. Anything but focusing on that sin, that will just hinder you and keep you from doing other things,

thats why the law for a Christian is dangerous, it keeps them focused on sin and not focused on thfaith things of God.

As DC said, it's not that cut and dried.
The law is not dangerous for a Christian unless they work to obey, thinking they can.
It's not dangerous for them when Jesus and the Spirit point out to them their hypocrisy in thinking they could obey it while not obeying it inwardly.

Because this leads to thirsting and hungering for righteousness in their inner man, in their heart. And this leads to prayer. And this leads to prayer being answered and growing love, humility, etc.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Don't misunderstand, stunned. You're not guilty of incest, for example, if you hold a grudge. That's not what he's saying. It simply means you can not boast of being a law keeper if you break one part of the law. It's like saying you're still a law abiding citizen because you drive the speed limit, even though you have a body buried in your basement. It only takes one infraction to no longer qualify as a law abiding citizen. Law abiding means obeying the sum total of the law.



This is not what happens for me. The law speaks to me and moves me to do the right thing because it is written on my heart. And I delight in it! It's a joy when a situation comes up and a word of scripture rises up in me by the Holy Spirit to direct me in how to respond to it.

The danger of law is using it improperly, in this example, trying to keep the commandments without aid from and reliance on the powerful manifestation of the presence of the Holy Spirit (the old way of the law--Romans 7:6). We get that power by falling on him in utter helplessness:

"15Call upon Me in the day of trouble;
I shall rescue you, and you will honor Me.”" (Psalm 50:15 NASB)

Deliverance and power does not come from trying to tough it out ourselves. But you seem to know this already. I'm just trying to encourage you.

You have answered extremely well brother!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"]Romans 8King James Version (KJV)

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.



[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



Stunnedbygrace, sorry for the delay but i know what you mean and I too have times where it is difficult not to despise those that despise me but by believing in Him who forgives us of much we can live by His Words.

GOD waters the seed He planted, let us drink plenty.

i just woke from a dream where someone hurt my husband and he was not reacting.. I was wanting the person to hurt as he had hurt my husband at the same time I could hear the Words of the Messiah talking me through the moment and calm came.

Quite fitting and good timing dream to have really..

Heavenly Father please strengthen me and others that struggle to forgive as you forgive us.

Yes, what an amazing dream to have after what we were discussing!
I was on a hunt to determine if you were truly relying on yourself as some have thought.
But by this post, you show that you do understand - the last line of prayer shows that you do! If you were relying on yourself to become truly lawabiding in your heart, you would never pray this as you have. Instead you asked for what you, and we, need and have lack of.

 

[stonesoffire]

The law of Moses was given to bring the promise ....to bring the Messiah in to the world so that we could all receive Salvation if we believe.

GOD's law is part of the Old and New.

The promise was given before the law of Moses ever came into being. It began with the fall of Adam and Eve. The one commandment to not eat of knowledge but of life. It is still in effect now since the Cross and Resurrection.

 

[stonesoffire]

Have I missed the concept? Or am I following His example?

If you are following His example, you are separate from His life. We are One with Him and move and speak out of unity.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I have to agree. It is 'hate' that is as murder, not anger.

"15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer..." (1 John 3:15 NASB)

17“ ‘Do not hate a fellow Israelite in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in their guilt.
18“ ‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people" (Leviticus 19:17-18 NIV)

It's okay to not like what people do. What's not okay is to hate them for it in a deep seated grudge and hatred for them.

The trick is to also realize that our hearts are deceitful and would rather not walk in the truth but in self-deceit, plastering on self-justifying fig leaves (Oh, I wasn't acting meanly, what poor little me? Why I'm a little angel. I had no bad intentions, no ill will, no anger at being spoken roughly to, it is always everyone else who is the problem, etc., etc.)
But once you catch what Paul did, that to glory in your weaknesses and readily admit them to God and to your brothers causes Him to be strong for you, you gladly walk in the truth and apologize left and right!

 

[PHart]

I agree that no one can keep it and one sin means condemnation, which is why Jesus needs to save each one of us. But are you saying that the law is gone today? What is condemning us today? do we need salvation from sin today? Faith in Gods grace?
Did the Royal law (10 commandments), end at Christs death? Some laws did end at the cross because those laws were schoolmasters, they pointed to the cross and were symbols of the cross.
But the laws that tells us not to steal or kill are still valid today.

I think you have a good grasp of the law in this New Covenant.

As far as the laws that 'ended', various ceremonial worship requirements were made obsolete by what Christ did for us. We don't 'need' to draw near to God through the old ways of doing that specified in the law anymore because we are already brought near to God through the new way of faith in Christ. But surely, the laws of how we treat one another are to be kept now just as they were then. It's just that we now have the new way of the Spirit available to us to make that possible.

But in the end ALL of the law is satisfied by our faith in Christ, even the now obsolete ceremonial laws. No outstanding debt of law remains for the one who believes in Christ and walks by the Spirit:


"22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,23gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law." (Galatians 5:22 NASB)

In other words, there is no violation of law for the one who is born again and walks according to the fruit of the Spirit. All of the law is not violated for the one who lives and walks in the Spirit. Walking by our faith in Jesus upholds the law not destroys it, as if that's what faith in Christ allows us to do.

 

[stonesoffire]

Adam and eve were condemned in the garden and we are condemned today so the law must still be active.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Sin is still around today.

Which law are you speaking of? The law that exists today is the same law to Adam and Eve. We have returned to the garden by work of Jesus Christ...which the garden is our heart. Two trees exist within us. We eat of the first when born naturally. Born again, we eat of the second. Tree of life, which is Jesus.

Religion makes this hard to understand but Israel didn't exist until recently so the church or the body of Christ was still in effect and will be until the catching up or whatever happens this way happens.

Then the law, the temple, these things will be seen if we are understanding the end times correctly. If not then the end of all things.

The truth is that the one law is working. Don't eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but of the tree of life.

 

[PHart]

The trick is to also realize that our hearts are deceitful and would rather not walk in the truth but in self-deceit, plastering on self-justifying fig leaves (Oh, I wasn't acting meanly, what poor little me? Why I'm a little angel. I had no bad intentions, no ill will, no anger at being spoken roughly to, it is always everyone else who is the problem, etc., etc.)
But once you catch what Paul did, that to glory in your weaknesses and readily admit them to God and to your brothers causes Him to be strong for you, you gladly walk in the truth and apologize left and right!

I think you've got this rage thing whipped.
You're on the right path.

Taking ownership of sin is essential to gaining Christ's victory over it. Rage was how I tried to conform everything and everybody to accommodate my comfort level (whether the comfort level was justified, or not, is not the point). Of course, I blamed everybody and everything for being unfair and wrong in provoking my rage, but in the end I had to take ownership of my response. God will deal one day with the things and people that provoke sin out of us. Our job is to deal with our sin. We are to leave room for God's wrath by us leaving the matter in his hands alone.