Not By Works
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Matthew 5
4 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Always read in full.
May we hear and keep always and forever.
4 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Always read in full.
May we hear and keep always and forever.
I never said this. I'm confused as to why you assumed I did? I include our dialogue above.
Obviously the world is made up of believers and non believers... wheat and tares.
BUT we were specifically discussing the falling away (highlighted in red). That is the topic. I was saying that there are tares that exist within the church buildings. A mix of believers and non believers in them. Not all are believers as some might wrongfully assume.
The ones that fall away are the tares who were never saved to begin with. The book of Jude confirms this also, as well as the scripture above.
Maybe this is why some believe that the apostates are believers?..... because they don't believe there are any tares within the church buildings, so they assume it's believers that fall away. The scriptures say otherwise.
I believe the 4 soils parable is about more than salvation, but about many words of the Lord placed in our heart. Some we receive deep and they transform us. Others the enemy comes and snatches them away.
I remember a conversation I had with a believer years back. He was a great person. Very kind. And when I talked to him, he struggled with believing God loved him. I showed him in the Scripture, but it just didn't click in his heart. I prayed for Holy Spirit to bring it to life to him. Later I heard he had a real encounter with God's love and his whole life changed. He joyfully got involved with doing missionary work, etc for the Kingdom of God.
Scripture said he was loved and its in their often, but there's a difference between what affects our mind and what has space to come into our heart. His heart needed to be made soft by Holy Spirit so the words of God could take root and create fruit.
I remember a conversation I had with a believer years back. He was a great person. Very kind. And when I talked to him, he struggled with believing God loved him. I showed him in the Scripture, but it just didn't click in his heart. I prayed for Holy Spirit to bring it to life to him. Later I heard he had a real encounter with God's love and his whole life changed. He joyfully got involved with doing missionary work, etc for the Kingdom of God.
Scripture said he was loved and its in their often, but there's a difference between what affects our mind and what has space to come into our heart. His heart needed to be made soft by Holy Spirit so the words of God could take root and create fruit.
i read that too! there is good soil, and bad soil. probably many ways for soil to be poor! not only that, the soil may be too rocky! and even in good, loose, deep soil, there are things like weeds and other plants that can quickly grow up and choke out a seedling.
& you know what they need water and light too! i read in another place how even with good sowing and watering, it's God that gives the increase. probably this is most important, and all proper horticulture is wise.
Plow up the hard ground of your heart.
And,
If you put your hand to the plow and turn back you are not fit for the kingdom of heave.
I think I might understand you here.
I personally cannot divide faith and trust. They are the same thing to me. I was that "some people" you describe. I had to grow a little bit before I trusted Him more.
I was really big on saying things like...yes, Lord, but that isn't how the world works, and yes, Lord, I trust you will feed and clothe me and make sure a roof is over my head but not storing up money is unwise because what about all of the people who belong to you who are starving all over the world? Do you know what He said to me? He said, I have overlooked one of those who I said I would not overlook? Please give me their names immediately if you know them and I will correct my mistake.
That'll shut your mouth real quick...
I personally cannot divide faith and trust. They are the same thing to me. I was that "some people" you describe. I had to grow a little bit before I trusted Him more.
I was really big on saying things like...yes, Lord, but that isn't how the world works, and yes, Lord, I trust you will feed and clothe me and make sure a roof is over my head but not storing up money is unwise because what about all of the people who belong to you who are starving all over the world? Do you know what He said to me? He said, I have overlooked one of those who I said I would not overlook? Please give me their names immediately if you know them and I will correct my mistake.
That'll shut your mouth real quick...
He knows when each person is ready for love. And what you said earlier about Him working in our life to bring us to Him, sometimes even many years before we come to Him, is so true. I looked back on my life before Him and saw places where He was working, arranging circumstances to bring me to Him.
I looked down and saw you kicking around in your blood and I saw that no one cared about you or covered or cleaned you. I saw you were ready for love and I said, live! Live!
(My paraphrase of what could very well be a few different verses).
I looked down and saw you kicking around in your blood and I saw that no one cared about you or covered or cleaned you. I saw you were ready for love and I said, live! Live!
(My paraphrase of what could very well be a few different verses).
So sorry to hear that Stones. I'm crying with you for your loss!
That must have been the most difficult time of your life. *Hugs*Well here's how I think you fit into the parable. God knows even before we're born who is good soil and who isn't. I had some spiritual experiences before I actually was born again. I think that's pretty normal for everyone. I think many have a spiritual revelation at times in their life and it's much later that faith becomes real and they're born of the Spirit. I can remember back having some experiences, but I never responded because I never really knew what to do with God's wooing me at the time. But, I've always been good soil. Anyone truly born of the Spirit is the good soil.
All the other soils described are bad soil and will not have a true genuine faith. That's what I've been taught and it's what I see when I compare scriptures with others.
I just think God was showing us in the parable why some stick around for a short time or even months or years, but when struggles come upon them, they blame God and begin to hate Him. It's because they didn't have good soil.
He draws us and I do believe in predestination because He knows the end from the beginning of each of our lives. We are born in time, not knowing the future. He is outside of time and of eternity. He knows His own. And goes after us.
He knows when each person is ready for love. And what you said earlier about Him working in our life to bring us to Him, sometimes even many years before we come to Him, is so true. I looked back on my life before Him and saw places where He was working, arranging circumstances to bring me to Him.
I looked down and saw you kicking around in your blood and I saw that no one cared about you or covered or cleaned you. I saw you were ready for love and I said, live! Live!
(My paraphrase of what could very well be a few different verses).
I looked down and saw you kicking around in your blood and I saw that no one cared about you or covered or cleaned you. I saw you were ready for love and I said, live! Live!
(My paraphrase of what could very well be a few different verses).
And love it!