Not By Works

[loveme1]

In line with Beyond T... true story loveme1 was young and walking alongside a cliff edge with parents.. loveme1 wanted to run and have fun in the long grass... loveme 1's Dad shouts very loudly with authority.. loveme1 stops instantly only to see she was about to run over the edge... the shout came and I froze and saw the danger in time..

So I will affirm with a true experience.

And I had to use the shout to stop my young son running in to the road and being hit.

However a person on the edge of a cliff threatening to jump will not like being shouted at.. softly, softly I would say.

 

[Magenta]

Have you read the New Testament Willybob? Because what you are defining as covenant relationship is what God made with Israel.

The New Testament is a will of inheritance. I'm not sure why you dislike the term "intimate relationship" because we can't be more intimate than to become one with someone, and that is what we have now.

Are you a member of His body? Have you been regenerated? Become the new man? Actually a new Genesis of Spiritual beings never seen on earth since Adam and Eve before the fall? Are you listening for His Voice to speak? Sitting at His feet?

Isnt that intimacy?

Are you defining faith as steadfast fidelity towards a God? I do agree with not having any other gods before Him, for that would be foolish since there is none else. But, I wouldn't say that's the definition of faith.

Anyway, interesting post you have made and I wait for your reply.

You make some very good points, SoF. It seems some do not have a personal relationship with God, else why speak against such? They condemn what they do not understand.

 

[Grace777x70]

The kingdoms of this world have now become the kingdom of our Lord after the cross and resurrection. Rev. 11:15

Before this - the kingdoms of this world belonged to satan.

Luke 4:5-6 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

[SUP]6 [/SUP] And the devil said to Him, "I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.

But Christ has won them back to Himself.

Jesus has now all authority in heaven and in earth since the cross and resurrection.

This is why Jesus will have the angels take out of His kingdom those that are not righteous in Him.

Only those that Christ is in will remain in the kingdom as He is our righteousness. The others are the lawless ones.

Scripture is very clear. There is a "cosmic or universal" aspect to Christ's work on the cross. Even creation itself has been redeemed and it too is waiting for the manifestation of it when He comes back.

All people of the world were included in Christ's work on the cross. Rom. 5 speaks of this as does 2 Cor. 5:14.

They must believe in order to receive what Christ has already done in His finished work.

There is a vast difference between a universal atonement and "universalism" which says that all dogs go to heaven.

1 Timothy 4:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.


We see a picture of this when the 2 thieves "were crucified with Him".

The fact that the Holy Spirit put in the truth of the 2 thieves "being crucified with Him" in all 4 gospel accounts shows the importance of it.

One believed and the other didn't. When people receive the gospel message of the forgiveness of sins - these remain/abide/stay in Christ - those that do not - will be cut off.

The other aspect to this is that we "believers" need to live by Christ's finished work in order to bear fruit unto God. It is His life that bears the fruit.

We don't "generate" fruit on our own - we abide in Christ's life and His life produces the "sap" for fruit-bearing as He alone is the true Vine.

Without Him and His finished work on the cross and resurrection - we can do nothing.

Truth is like an onion - it has many facets to it...

Everyone is in the kingdom of our Lord but not everyone "has the kingdom in them".

Which is why when all people see Him - they will call Him Lord - because He is Lord.

 

[Magenta]

Exactly. A blind person who can now see does not return to their blindness. True believers just don't become atheists. Yeah, there will be some who professed to be a christian at some point, without ever having had a spiritual transformation. That's the difference.

And then there will be some true believers who wrestle with their flesh and blame God for their hardships. That person might backslide for a time and even become rebellious, while still in their heart they know the truth, and God knows their heart and struggles. Someone might judge that person without knowing their situation or how God is working in their life and using said hardship too.

Very keen observations, all, Katy You are not rusty at all

As someone else said, how can one become un-reborn again?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I can agree with all that.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I hope you've been able to discern the distinction I'm making between 'faith', and the 'believing' that follows from faith.

Faith is a supernatural enabling given to a person by God, as a free gift, to know that something is true that they can't see or know in their own ability or power is true:

"1Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1 NASB)


​

The gift of faith is how God comes to a person to convict them of the gospel. He does that through the testimony of the Holy Spirit speaking into the hearts of people:

"It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth." (1 John 5:6 NASB)​

​

Most people choose to discard what God has shown them to be true about the gospel, in effect calling Him (the Holy Spirit) a liar (as the Pharisees did when they refused to believe the testimony of the Spirit in the miracles of Jesus):

"the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony (of the Holy Spirit) that God has given concerning His Son." (1 John 5:10 NASB)

​

​

But then there are the few of us who don't discard what God has shown us to be the truth and we choose to believe in what we now know to be true through the testimony of the Holy Spirit, and we hold fast to it in ourselves and are saved:

"10The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony (of the Holy Spirit) in himself" (1 John 5:10 NASB) ​

​

As you probably know, in scripture it says, "Many are called, but few are chosen" (Matthew 22:14 NASB). Many hear the voice of the Holy Spirit in a convicting of the truth of the gospel, but it is us few who then believe on what the Spirit has convicted us as being true. And so God 'chooses' us on the basis of our faith (our believing) in Him.

The point is, God gives us the power and the ability--the faith (see the definition of faith above)--to know the gospel is true. And he gives it as a free gift. But it is then incumbent upon us to then place our trust--our believing--in what he has shown us to be true through his gracious gift of enabling faith. And it is this decision to believe that is the condition that must be satisfied, and kept satisfied until the Day of Salvation for us to be saved on the Day of Salvation.

God's gracious gift of faith (the ability to know something is true that we can't see) is the power he gives for us to do the believing/trusting that we are required to do in order to be saved. And last time I checked, believing/ trusting in Christ is not on the 'works' side in Paul's 'faith vs. works for justification' treatise in Romans, so believing and trusting is hardly the effort of trying to save oneself as some are insisting here in this thread.




Maybe what you mean to ask is, "how have you been able to keep believing and grow in that believing, despite the world...?"

I can because 1) I want to (I don't want to go back to the world--been there, done that), and 2) God is faithful to keep me supplied with a generous offering of his gracious gift of faith (the ability to know something is true) which makes it so I can continue to then believe and trust in what he has shown me to be true.

OOPS! Forgot to show the post I was agreeing with!

 

[Magenta]

OOPS! Forgot to show the post I was agreeing with!

You still have time to delete the first one. But then your oops would not make sense LOL

 

[Magenta]

These people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things
they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them.
From Jude verse ten.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Are you guys making fun of me?

I use the KJV for study...and post out of it. Deal with it! lol

It's okay sis. We often liketh quite mucheth what you have to sayeth!

 

[stonesoffire]

It's okay sis. We often liketh quite mucheth what you have to sayeth!

ah...another lovereth of the King! lol

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

verily verily i say unto you, ye shall not enter in unless ye repenteth!

But Lord, he has been there three days, by now he stinketh!
I can't help it, I laughed when I read it. Sorry.
Some of the psalms are so poetic in KJV though that they seem to just lose something to me in other translations.

 

[Magenta]

It's okay sis. We often liketh quite mucheth what you have to sayeth!

Thou speaketh truly

 

[stonesoffire]

I'm quite sure if this thread was a building I would of been ejected long ago...

I've always heard the phrase..never say never... and there's always a next time...

Anyone of us could be ejected at any time...right? Not enough works and down the tubes we go...forget to believe on a daily basis? Too bad...off to the fires...not obey the moral laws? Now you kids...don't you dare hold hands...(not condoning, making a point)

I hate sin by the way. And I love the Holiness of God which is not anything like religiousness.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

same lol

ive started the nasb

but the only translation i read cover to cover is kjv

and its what i still go to regularly

I go through stages where I read one translation for a long time and then pick up another. Sometimes, the way something is worded in another translation just jolts me man, and I sit there wondering how I never SAW that verse!

 

[Grace777x70]

I shall pray for us all now in King Jimmie speech: ( God answers quicker when we do it in King Jimmie talk.....)

"O Thou that dwelleth between the cherubim - Ancient of days and Father of lights - we ask that Thou in Thy ineffableness reveal how to truly speaketh as the King James would havest us to doeth."

I simply say to Him " You are my Father who loves me dearly". I belong to You

[video=youtube;e4ZH11FkkbY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4ZH11FkkbY[/video]

 

[stonesoffire]

stephen

if you are peeking as a guest

sorry to see you gone
and
even if we disagreed sometimes i dont recall you ever once being out of line with me

may God bless you where ever you go man

I actually enjoyed sparring with him. Even though he called me an ankle biter.

 

[stonesoffire]

I shall pray for us all now in King Jimmie speech: ( God answers quicker when we do it in King Jimmie talk.....)

~
Hark! I hear the voice of King Jimmy! and the King will answer thee " And thou shalt not have thy place on King Jimmies throne! Beware!

"O Thou that dwelleth between the cherubim - Ancient of days and Father of lights - we ask that Thou in Thy ineffableness reveal how to truly speaketh as the King James would havest us to doeth."

I simply call Him "my Father who loves me dearly". I belong to You

[video=youtube;e4ZH11FkkbY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4ZH11FkkbY[/video]

wrong placing

 

[stonesoffire]

eg tried to use common core math to add up his time here.

I hate that math...how can 2 plus 2 equal 5 or whatever nonsense they come up with.

 

[Meggido]

Hmm...I've only seen this in movies, so I don't know how accurate they are, but in movies, the person sent up to talk someone off a tall building or bridge or cliff they are contemplating jumping from, they don't yell, scream, or make any loud noises...yes, I'm aware this isn't a movie. But in real life, I have seen parents yell and scream and it just builds up stubbornness and then when a child is 18 and has a car, they rebel strongly.

Stunned...long post, but from my heart...

1 Cor 13.4-7...please look at Vs 6 very closely

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, [SUP]5 [/SUP]does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, [SUP]6 [/SUP]does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; [SUP]7 [/SUP]bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.



The love of God is shed in our hearts by the Holy Spirit and the love walk is always maintained...and we know what love is from the above passage...

There are 4 kinds of - the first 3 are human and emotional and the 4th is Gods perfect or agape love

1-Phileo-brotherly love
2-Eros-Sexual
3-Storge-devoted love between family and spouses
4-Agape-God's perfect love..

I think many fellow brothers and sisters often times think ALL Love needs to be a display of sweet, oozy, gooey, syrupy emotional Phileo, & storge love...many who admonish others to be more loving here are attempting to get people to love in the Phileo, & Storge love without possibly knowing it...this is because Phileo, & Storge love is often and always confused with agape love....

Jesus operated in Agape, Phileo, & Storge love....

The perfect[agape] love of God is not Eros, Phileo, & storge love because all 3 types of that love have and need an expectation of a return and to be received and most of the times gets the return and is received......



The perfect love of God [agape love] is a love that does NOT seek or expect any kind of a return when it is poured out....it is also a contending type of love...this love does entail the qualities of Phileo, & storge love, but stops in it's expectation of a return or even being received...this love is described in 1 Cor 13.6....

This is also the "loved" mentioned in John 3.16 and God poured out his perfect love on mankind and knew before hand that not all would return the love or even receive the love....

I said all that to say this...when Paul withstood, corrected, reproved, rebuked, disciplined someone in the Church or a fellow bond servant he used the perfect love that does not rejoice in unrighteousness but does rejoice in the truth...

This is the love that Jesus always manifested when confronted by the Pharisees, Sadducees and scribes....Yes, he in perfect love called them serpents, vipers, blind, traditionalists, sons of the devil....and on and on....if you really study Jesus way of ministry...he did manifested this perfect love to keep the hearing from being destroyed by the religion they were enslaved by....

I had a mentor once pull me in a room after I preached a message a very long time ago....He took me to a room with an elder closed the door and completely unleashed on me and was very emotionally and visibly upset....My pride and arrogance kept me from seeing that what I thought was emotional anger, was a very correct, righteous anger and deep concern for the people I had just preached to...and could have destroyed by one remark.....I told them: that not one of you is now worthy of what Jesus had done for them....the point I was trying to make was: that before coming to Jesus not one is righteous....I also stated that SIN is something we have to live with the rest of our lives...so get used to it....I messed up really badly

I got right back in his face and he physically grabbed me and sat me down and once I lowered my pride and arrogance and saw him and the elder weeping tears of righteous anger and concern for me and the people...it clicked in my spirit and I submitted myself to the correction that was needed. He finished explaining to me what I had done wrong and what was at stake by not preaching the truth...the elder was in agreement...This was love that does not rejoice in unrighteousness but does rejoice in the truth

Did the mentor need to be upset, who knows, but looking back on it now, it reminded me when I was child and ran out into eh street to chase a ball and my Dad was very urgent in his correction and tone of voice...STOP!!!!! I said STOP!!!!...I froze at the end of the yard and a truck zoomed past and crushed the ball I was chasing...he then grabbed me and shook me and said...do not ever do that again....my Mom was just as upset and they both hugged me....

I came to understand how much Agape Phileo, & storge love that mentor had/has for me to this day....

The arch enemy of agape perfect love is pride, arrogance, the iniquity that is narcissism[self love] and rebellion.....I have heard others say that even Phileo, & storge love conflicts with agape perfect love, I agree with that....

When we expect a return or others to receive our love from us...we are not walking in agape perfect love

I had to tell a born again friend 3 years ago that if he continued down the path he was walking in he would lose the church he had just bought and started....he was preaching a gospel that was keeping God's people in bondage and he was never called to preach, pastor or shepherd....his pride refused to take the correction....he asked me 2 years why I thought the church was not going anywhere...I told him flatly that the was never called to preach, pastor or shepherd....admonished him and explained the scriptures more accurately.....he ended fellowship and then went around to all our collective friends and partners in ministry and lied about us and tried to destroy my wife and I and our ministry...deep betrayal and very deep hurt....

I manifested agape perfect love to him....many others sided with him, because he was out there running his mouth agaisnt us...they thought we were bad people and needed to show more love to this guy and his wife....and they stopped being friends with us and called my Pastor and accountability partners and caused a mess.... but all these folks kept on telling this guy that God called him to preach/pastor/shepherd, forget that meggido man and his silly wife...he is not loving or kind an needs to show more love...

He closed the church 3 months ago and almost attempted suicide and is now shipwreck in his faith and his entire family is as well...he now blames my wife and I for his failure......the others....we still love them and him and pray for them all daily...

When you walk in perfect love that does not rejoice in unrighteousness but does rejoice in the truth.....it is usually with only you and Jesus....

 

[stonesoffire]

so again, people seem to think there are people who think the race is finished and we do not have to run the race.

Can those people please humbly stand up. I would like to know why you think this..

I'm sorry EG...lol...but how could one who thinks they ran the race humbly stand up? lol You got me laughing so hard.

And I truly love you!