Not By Works

[7seasrekeyed]

Yep Bethel and Hillsong are just media entertainment companies that do something called "gatherings" every week.

great tunes

sales are incredible

kaching kaching kaching

to develop a distaste for it, you really have to be desperate for truth

 

[Zi]

Scripture says no liars enters in.. can you show they did?

Does scripture say they did not enter in

 

[stonesoffire]

What do you read then. Wow

That's scripture. Putting off the old man is reckoning it dead. We died with Christ at the Cross...we are raised with Him in His resurrection. Do you still see yourself as a sinner? I don't.

 

[Meggido]

I'm not addressing a list of denial of entry...but to this I will say that the new creation man are not liars. Liars are unregenerate.

If the new creation man was a pathological liar before his spirit become perfect at conversion and he has not renewed his mind to stop being a pathological liar to the word of God then his tongue will not be tamed.....

You are suggesting the new man is made complete in spirit, mind and body at conversion....this is not what the Bible says at all...

 

[stonesoffire]

Col 2:10　 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
　
Col 2:11　 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
　
Col 2:12　 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.　


Col 2:13　 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;　


Col 2:14　 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
　
Col 2:15　 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.　

 

[Grace777x70]

Listen to this woman that loves the Lord with her whole heart sing to Him.

And yet - there are others in the body of Christ that see fit to malign her in public. Who needs the world to persecute those that love the Lord Jesus when we can bite and devour each other?

[video=youtube;0uUwIiBaStE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uUwIiBaStE[/video]

 

[Zi]

Why in Romans are WE told to renew our minds?

We have something to do.. your principle just fell

That's scripture. Putting off the old man is reckoning it dead. We died with Christ at the Cross...we are raised with Him in His resurrection. Do you still see yourself as a sinner? I don't.

 

[PHart]

would this happen before or after the gold dust is blown in through the air vents and the well hidden smoke machine imitating shekinah glory?

Lol.

If only people really did see the glory of God.

God graciously let me see the Spirit descend on the congregation one time. He looked like the shimmering waves of heat that one sees at the end of a long flat road in the heat of the day. I kept it secret for many years and only told one or two people about the experience, until these last few years (I'm getting old and don't want to take the experience to my grave).

I think God let me see it so I wouldn't bash the gift of tongues (I don't have that gift). The moment the flickering clear flame of the Spirit hit the tops of the heads of the congregation they exploded in tongues at the exact same time with each other. The connection between what I was seeing and their response was undeniable.

 

[stonesoffire]

Personally I don't believe that Ananias and Sapphira were saved. The scripture does not say "they were saved". Simply that they joined themselves to the Christians.

After the event with the couple the Holy Spirit records this truth - that none of the "others" dared to associate with them. Who are "these others"? These were unbelievers wanting to join up with the Christians as people were giving to each other and they had all things in common.

Acts 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But none of the rest dared to associate with them; however, the people held them in high esteem.

Here is an interesting article that speaks about Ananias and Sapphira. I like to use this site sometimes because it gives a grace-based view of the finished work of Christ. It also has at the bottom where people can ask questions about the article. I often learn from that area too.

What about Ananias and Sapphira?

Recently in Connecticut, a pastor stood in front of his church and confessed to the sin of adultery. Then the pastor fell down dead, right in front of everyone. This proves that God expects his people to live holy lives and if they don’t, he’ll kill them.

Of course, that’s complete nonsense. The story is true – a Connecticut pastor really did die – but the interpretation is all wrong. The fact is, God doesn’t treat us as our sins deserve. But what are we to make of Ananias and Sapphira who, like the poor pastor, dropped dead in a church (Acts 5:1-11)?

The bizarre deaths of Ananias and Sapphira have been debated for 2,000 years. Why did they die? Did God kill them? Why did God kill them? Why is this story in the Bible? Am I supposed to learn something from it? What? Will God kill me if I lie?

Questions like these have provided sermon material for countless fear-mongers. “God killed Ananias and Sapphira because they sinned and if you’re not careful he’ll kill you too! So fear God and behave yourself.” Has there ever been a more damnable lie inflicted on those whom God loves? (Actually, I can think of several worse lies.)

Unpunishable on account of Jesus

I could give you a hundred scriptures to show you that God did not kill Ananias and Sapphira for their sins and to assure you that he won’t kill you for yours, but three should suffice:

(God) doesn’t punish us as our sins deserve. (Psalm 103:10, CEV)

The punishment that brought us peace was on him… (Isa 53:5b)

God is not counting people’s sins against them. (2 Cor 5:19b)

The very good news of Jesus is that your sins and my sins and the sins of that Connecticut pastor and the sins of Ananias and Sapphira were condemned on the cross and there is nothing left to condemn! God was angry with your sins, which is why he poured out his wrath and dealt with them once and for all at Calvary (Rom 8:3).

Those who accuse God of killing sinners are confused about the cross. God doesn’t kill sinners, he saves sinners. God doesn’t hate sinners, he loves them!

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Rom 5:8)

If God killed Ananias and Sapphira then the Bible is wrong and Jesus is not the Lamb of God who carried the sins of the world. (If you’re wondering about Herod, read this.)

There’s no shortage of sinners in this world. Why would God kill one couple and leave the rest alone?

I’ve heard it said that God killed Ananias and Sapphira to warn and purify the infant church. By making an example out of these hypocrites, the church would be filled with a holy fear and kept safe from liars and cheats. If so, then God failed spectacularly.

Liars, cheats and hypocrites have always been with us, and there were plenty in the New Testament church.

I’ve also heard it said that God set up this killing to establish the authority of his apostles. Never mind that Peter had been commissioned by the Lord and filled with the Holy Spirit. Like a kid going through a gangster initiation he had to kill someone to establish his bona fides.

How absurd! How utterly inconsistent with the message Peter had been commissioned to preach.

Meanwhile back in Connecticut

People sometimes ask me, “Did God kill Ananias and Sapphira?” When I reply in the negative I am invariably asked, “So who did?” as though there was some murder mystery to be solved. But the facts of their deaths may be more prosaic.

The pastor in Connecticut died from a sudden heart failure, which is very sad. Perhaps it was the stress of hiding a lie or losing his reputation that triggered the attack. At the time of his death there was speculation in the press that he didn’t plan to confess at all – the adultery was a long time ago – but he had been ambushed by church members who had heard about his affair.

Emotions were running high. There was shouting. The man died. Whatever happened, it’s a sad story. But I am struck by the similarities between the Connecticut story and the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira:

• By having a secret affair, you could argue that the pastor lied to his church and he lied to God, as did Ananias and Sapphira.

• The pastor was confronted by church members, as were Ananias and Sapphira.

• The pastor dropped down dead, just like Ananias and Sapphira.

As far as I know, no one is blaming God for the pastor’s death, so why would anyone blame him for the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira? If you must blame someone, blame sin. Sin kills people. Sin ruins marriages and destroys lives. Sin is bad.

And this is exactly why Jesus came – so that you might be free from the curse of sin and live. If there is any takeaway from the Ananias and Sapphira story, it’s that the wages of sin is death. That’s the bad news. But the good news is that God is good, he doesn’t treat you as your sins deserve, and he freely gives life to sinners.

That’s the gospel of Jesus that we all need to hear!

Unquote:

Here is the link if people are interested in viewing the questions.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/04/09/what-about-ananias-and-sapphira/

I heard a teaching on this Grace777 ...wasn't my revelation and there is much more that I forget. That's the problem with listening to another mans teaching, but I agreed with it. Made sense to me.

But, we really can't say for sure, you are correct. We do know that they lied to the Holy Spirit, and Holy Spirit was in Peter.

 

[Meggido]

Lol.

If only people really did see the glory of God.

God graciously let me see the Spirit descend on the congregation one time. He looked like the shimmering waves of heat that one sees at the end of a long flat road in the heat of the day. I kept it secret for many years and only told one or two people about the experience, until these last few years (I'm getting old and don't want to take the experience to my grave).

I think God let me see it so I wouldn't bash the gift of tongues (I don't have that gift). The moment the flickering clear flame of the Spirit hit the tops of the heads of the congregation they exploded in tongues at the exact same time with each other. The connection between what I was seeing and their response was undeniable.

Powerful word brother.....thank you for the courage to share this...all I will say is this.... that what you describe is accurate and truthful....

This verse came to my spirit for you, when you shared this beautiful story....

Psalm 25.14

The secret of the Lord is for those who fear Him,
And He will make them know His covenant.

 

[UnderGrace]

I have to disagree with Escaped to Reality

Non believers do horrible things every day and God lets them continue in and outside of the institutional church.

If you take out the words Chapter Five out, you will see in that just prior verse 32 (Chapter Four) that the passage is about believers.

It may not have been a punishment for sin but He had His reasons for what He did.

We need to break out of the mindset that God is either rewarding or punishing, maybe this act was merciful on His part we do not know the whole picture.... but what I do believe is, He is bringing His will to bear on the world and His will is perfect.

Personally I don't believe that Ananias and Sapphira were saved. The scripture does not say "they were saved". Simply that they joined themselves to the Christians.

After the event with the couple the Holy Spirit records this truth - that none of the "others" dared to associate with them. Who are "these others"? These were unbelievers wanting to join up with the Christians as people were giving to each other and they had all things in common.

Acts 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But none of the rest dared to associate with them; however, the people held them in high esteem.

Here is an interesting article that speaks about Ananias and Sapphira. I like to use this site sometimes because it gives a grace-based view of the finished work of Christ. It also has at the bottom where people can ask questions about the article. I often learn from that area too.

What about Ananias and Sapphira?

Recently in Connecticut, a pastor stood in front of his church and confessed to the sin of adultery. Then the pastor fell down dead, right in front of everyone. This proves that God expects his people to live holy lives and if they don’t, he’ll kill them.

Of course, that’s complete nonsense. The story is true – a Connecticut pastor really did die – but the interpretation is all wrong. The fact is, God doesn’t treat us as our sins deserve. But what are we to make of Ananias and Sapphira who, like the poor pastor, dropped dead in a church (Acts 5:1-11)?

The bizarre deaths of Ananias and Sapphira have been debated for 2,000 years. Why did they die? Did God kill them? Why did God kill them? Why is this story in the Bible? Am I supposed to learn something from it? What? Will God kill me if I lie?

Questions like these have provided sermon material for countless fear-mongers. “God killed Ananias and Sapphira because they sinned and if you’re not careful he’ll kill you too! So fear God and behave yourself.” Has there ever been a more damnable lie inflicted on those whom God loves? (Actually, I can think of several worse lies.)

Unpunishable on account of Jesus

I could give you a hundred scriptures to show you that God did not kill Ananias and Sapphira for their sins and to assure you that he won’t kill you for yours, but three should suffice:

(God) doesn’t punish us as our sins deserve. (Psalm 103:10, CEV)

The punishment that brought us peace was on him… (Isa 53:5b)

God is not counting people’s sins against them. (2 Cor 5:19b)

The very good news of Jesus is that your sins and my sins and the sins of that Connecticut pastor and the sins of Ananias and Sapphira were condemned on the cross and there is nothing left to condemn! God was angry with your sins, which is why he poured out his wrath and dealt with them once and for all at Calvary (Rom 8:3).

Those who accuse God of killing sinners are confused about the cross. God doesn’t kill sinners, he saves sinners. God doesn’t hate sinners, he loves them!

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Rom 5:8)

If God killed Ananias and Sapphira then the Bible is wrong and Jesus is not the Lamb of God who carried the sins of the world. (If you’re wondering about Herod, read this.)

There’s no shortage of sinners in this world. Why would God kill one couple and leave the rest alone?

I’ve heard it said that God killed Ananias and Sapphira to warn and purify the infant church. By making an example out of these hypocrites, the church would be filled with a holy fear and kept safe from liars and cheats. If so, then God failed spectacularly.

Liars, cheats and hypocrites have always been with us, and there were plenty in the New Testament church.

I’ve also heard it said that God set up this killing to establish the authority of his apostles. Never mind that Peter had been commissioned by the Lord and filled with the Holy Spirit. Like a kid going through a gangster initiation he had to kill someone to establish his bona fides.

How absurd! How utterly inconsistent with the message Peter had been commissioned to preach.

Meanwhile back in Connecticut

People sometimes ask me, “Did God kill Ananias and Sapphira?” When I reply in the negative I am invariably asked, “So who did?” as though there was some murder mystery to be solved. But the facts of their deaths may be more prosaic.

The pastor in Connecticut died from a sudden heart failure, which is very sad. Perhaps it was the stress of hiding a lie or losing his reputation that triggered the attack. At the time of his death there was speculation in the press that he didn’t plan to confess at all – the adultery was a long time ago – but he had been ambushed by church members who had heard about his affair.

Emotions were running high. There was shouting. The man died. Whatever happened, it’s a sad story. But I am struck by the similarities between the Connecticut story and the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira:

• By having a secret affair, you could argue that the pastor lied to his church and he lied to God, as did Ananias and Sapphira.

• The pastor was confronted by church members, as were Ananias and Sapphira.

• The pastor dropped down dead, just like Ananias and Sapphira.

As far as I know, no one is blaming God for the pastor’s death, so why would anyone blame him for the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira? If you must blame someone, blame sin. Sin kills people. Sin ruins marriages and destroys lives. Sin is bad.

And this is exactly why Jesus came – so that you might be free from the curse of sin and live. If there is any takeaway from the Ananias and Sapphira story, it’s that the wages of sin is death. That’s the bad news. But the good news is that God is good, he doesn’t treat you as your sins deserve, and he freely gives life to sinners.

That’s the gospel of Jesus that we all need to hear!

Unquote:

Here is the link if people are interested in viewing the questions.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/04/09/what-about-ananias-and-sapphira/

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I have told very willful lies to men, even after I received the Holy Spirit, and I didn't drop dead and He didn't abandon me. (Neither did He fail to bring them to my remembrance either though) I agree with them on this SOF - it was that they lied to the Holy Spirit as the verse says. They thought God didn't see. It was just some sort of game to them. That's my opinion though, based on the verse.

I wish they would correct with discussion and gentleness instead of what feels like...disdain and glee or pride or like...giving high fives for getting someone good. That's not how we share and learn. It just brings up a mans stubbornness and pride, or like you said, raises a mallet back at them.

Of course, that is just my opinion also.

 

[PHart]

That's what we are saying...It's His work in us! Nothing to boast of. Salvation from beginning to end is His Work.

The point is, you still do something. You respond. He doesn't do your responding for you.

It's like taking a pill the doctor prescribed. It can be the greatest cure of all time. You did not invent it. You did not think of it. You did not manufacture it. So you can not boast about it in any way shape or form. But you still have to take it, lol! The doctor doesn't take the pill for us.

 

[stonesoffire]

Why in Romans are WE told to renew our minds?

We have something to do.. your principle just fell

I never said we didn't. I wholeheartedly believe in renewing our minds to the truth of the scriptures. That is why I post scripture....

But, our nature, our human nature has died with Christ so reckon it so on a daily basis. That's what we do. Renew our mind to the Word. That's what we do. Be filled with His Spirit...we submit to His Lordship. Though it is for our own remembrance, not His.

 

[Zi]

His word stands true even when He's generous.. The absence of punishment is no indication of behavior being OK.

I have told very willful lies to men, even after I received the Holy Spirit, and I didn't drop dead and He didn't abandon me. (Neither did He fail to bring them to my remembrance either though) I agree with them on this SOF - it was that they lied to the Holy Spirit as the verse says. They thought God didn't see. It was just some sort of game to them. That's my opinion though, based on the verse.

I wish they would correct with discussion and gentleness instead of what feels like...disdain and glee or pride or like...giving high fives for getting someone good. That's not how we share and learn. It just brings up a mans stubbornness and pride, or like you said, raises a mallet back at them.

Of course, that is just my opinion also.

 

[stonesoffire]

The point is, you still do something. You respond. He doesn't do your responding for you.

It's like taking a pill the doctor prescribed. It can be the greatest cure of all time. You did not invent it. You did not think of it. You did not manufacture it. So you can not boast about it in any way shape or form. But you still have to take it, lol!

See below... or above! lol

 

[Grace777x70]

While we are biting and ripping apart others in the body of Christ - why don't we bite on this women too that is worshipping the Lord and singing of His worthiness?

Have your fill and drink the blood of those in the body of Christ with our hatred and malice.

Those people that don't believe in Christ's finished work on the cross will be very glad for the gospel of the grace of God in Christ if we all stood before Him this night.

Acts 9:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"


[video=youtube;3dZMBrGGmeE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dZMBrGGmeE[/video]

 

[PHart]

I have told very willful lies to men, even after I received the Holy Spirit, and I didn't drop dead and He didn't abandon me. (Neither did He fail to bring them to my remembrance either though) I agree with them on this SOF - it was that they lied to the Holy Spirit as the verse says. They thought God didn't see. It was just some sort of game to them. That's my opinion though, based on the verse.

Punishment is mitigated (or not) according to the relationship we have with the Holy Spirit. God decides what punishment is just and appropriate in any particular circumstance. The Pharisees looked right into the face of the Holy Spirit in Jesus' miracles and called him a lying worker of the devil. They were accountable for much, and so there punishment was, and will be, measured out accordingly.

 

[stonesoffire]

I have told very willful lies to men, even after I received the Holy Spirit, and I didn't drop dead and He didn't abandon me. (Neither did He fail to bring them to my remembrance either though) I agree with them on this SOF - it was that they lied to the Holy Spirit as the verse says. They thought God didn't see. It was just some sort of game to them. That's my opinion though, based on the verse.

I wish they would correct with discussion and gentleness instead of what feels like...disdain and glee or pride or like...giving high fives for getting someone good. That's not how we share and learn. It just brings up a mans stubbornness and pride, or like you said, raises a mallet back at them.

Of course, that is just my opinion also.

Right...I based my opinion on the message I heard which I agreed with. As I said though...I didn't say they didn't lie. But, the act of lying didn't cause the fear that others had. And respect too I would add. It's the authority of Holy Spirit in Peter, who knew by gifting that they lied.

IMO

 

[Meggido]

His word stands true even when He's generous.. The absence of punishment is no indication of behavior being OK.

Ecclesiastes 8.11-13

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed quickly, therefore the hearts of the sons of men among them are given fully to do evil. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Although a sinner does evil a hundred times and may lengthen his life, still I know that it will be well for those who fear God, who fear Him openly. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But it will not be well for the evil man and he will not lengthen his days like a shadow, because he does not fear God.