would this happen before or after the gold dust is blown in through the air vents and the well hidden smoke machine imitating shekinah glory? or when Jenn gets sultry and talks about how the Holy Spirit is like Aladdin the Genie....
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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would this happen before or after the gold dust is blown in through the air vents and the well hidden smoke machine imitating shekinah glory? or when Jenn gets sultry and talks about how the Holy Spirit is like Aladdin the Genie....
There is only one unforgivable sin...
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven,
but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Matt 12:31
P
PHart
Guest
And before anybody goes there.....even my 'want to' is so graciously worked in me through his help and encouragement that I can not boast in that, for I can not do even the 'I want to' part on my own without him. I simply can not boast, but that hardly makes it so I don't have to want to. It's just that I can not 'want to' without his help. So I can not boast.
Z
Zi
Guest
Those who oppose authority.. never seen that listed in the list of denial for entry.. nice skate over the truth and obvious wrong in the account
Z
Zi
Guest
If that were in the Bible like the other, I could answer. You'd probably skip over it as well
This is what we hold onto, our hope and faith in His work in our lives, and His promise to bring it to completion.
pure false eisegesis...
The people feared because 2 people dropped dead from lying to the Holy Spirit and not because of Peter, but because of the Holy Spirit in Peter...
If this happened today the church would fear and call it a demon because many are told yeah...that stuff from the Holy Spirit in Acts...it ain't for today honey....
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
ah yes
the genie and that old familiar smile. that beguiling smile that invites you to join in the fun
and they do
I don't think it matters when the gold dust settles. or the gold fillings. or the ginormous gems that promise the wealth of K mart or the false prophecies
when you are a circus master you just want to please the crowd. and hope they buy buy buy cd's
that wish has been granted
P
PHart
Guest
So would I, lol!
Thankfully, the growing pains of growing up into Christ do not cause us to lose our salvation. Why? Because we continue to believe and trust in the blood of Christ to wipe away the guilt of those failures.
It's when we depart from Christ in a willful unbelief that we can be lost. Why? Because we no longer have Christ through our believing--the believing we no longer have--to wipe away our sins.
That's what we are saying...It's His work in us! Nothing to boast of. Salvation from beginning to end is His Work.
Z
Zi
Guest
Personally I don't believe that Ananias and Sapphira were saved. The scripture does not say "they were saved". Simply that they joined themselves to the Christians.
After the event with the couple the Holy Spirit records this truth - that none of the "others" dared to associate with them. Who are "these others"? These were unbelievers wanting to join up with the Christians as people were giving to each other and they had all things in common.
Acts 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But none of the rest dared to associate with them; however, the people held them in high esteem.
Here is an interesting article that speaks about Ananias and Sapphira. I like to use this site sometimes because it gives a grace-based view of the finished work of Christ. It also has at the bottom where people can ask questions about the article. I often learn from that area too.
What about Ananias and Sapphira?
Recently in Connecticut, a pastor stood in front of his church and confessed to the sin of adultery. Then the pastor fell down dead, right in front of everyone. This proves that God expects his people to live holy lives and if they don’t, he’ll kill them.
Of course, that’s complete nonsense. The story is true – a Connecticut pastor really did die – but the interpretation is all wrong. The fact is, God doesn’t treat us as our sins deserve. But what are we to make of Ananias and Sapphira who, like the poor pastor, dropped dead in a church (Acts 5:1-11)?
The bizarre deaths of Ananias and Sapphira have been debated for 2,000 years. Why did they die? Did God kill them? Why did God kill them? Why is this story in the Bible? Am I supposed to learn something from it? What? Will God kill me if I lie?
Questions like these have provided sermon material for countless fear-mongers. “God killed Ananias and Sapphira because they sinned and if you’re not careful he’ll kill you too! So fear God and behave yourself.” Has there ever been a more damnable lie inflicted on those whom God loves? (Actually, I can think of several worse lies.)
Unpunishable on account of Jesus
I could give you a hundred scriptures to show you that God did not kill Ananias and Sapphira for their sins and to assure you that he won’t kill you for yours, but three should suffice:
(God) doesn’t punish us as our sins deserve. (Psalm 103:10, CEV)
The punishment that brought us peace was on him… (Isa 53:5b)
God is not counting people’s sins against them. (2 Cor 5:19b)
The very good news of Jesus is that your sins and my sins and the sins of that Connecticut pastor and the sins of Ananias and Sapphira were condemned on the cross and there is nothing left to condemn! God was angry with your sins, which is why he poured out his wrath and dealt with them once and for all at Calvary (Rom 8:3).
Those who accuse God of killing sinners are confused about the cross. God doesn’t kill sinners, he saves sinners. God doesn’t hate sinners, he loves them!
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Rom 5:8)
If God killed Ananias and Sapphira then the Bible is wrong and Jesus is not the Lamb of God who carried the sins of the world. (If you’re wondering about Herod, read this.)
There’s no shortage of sinners in this world. Why would God kill one couple and leave the rest alone?
I’ve heard it said that God killed Ananias and Sapphira to warn and purify the infant church. By making an example out of these hypocrites, the church would be filled with a holy fear and kept safe from liars and cheats. If so, then God failed spectacularly.
Liars, cheats and hypocrites have always been with us, and there were plenty in the New Testament church.
I’ve also heard it said that God set up this killing to establish the authority of his apostles. Never mind that Peter had been commissioned by the Lord and filled with the Holy Spirit. Like a kid going through a gangster initiation he had to kill someone to establish his bona fides.
How absurd! How utterly inconsistent with the message Peter had been commissioned to preach.
Meanwhile back in Connecticut
People sometimes ask me, “Did God kill Ananias and Sapphira?” When I reply in the negative I am invariably asked, “So who did?” as though there was some murder mystery to be solved. But the facts of their deaths may be more prosaic.
The pastor in Connecticut died from a sudden heart failure, which is very sad. Perhaps it was the stress of hiding a lie or losing his reputation that triggered the attack. At the time of his death there was speculation in the press that he didn’t plan to confess at all – the adultery was a long time ago – but he had been ambushed by church members who had heard about his affair.
Emotions were running high. There was shouting. The man died. Whatever happened, it’s a sad story. But I am struck by the similarities between the Connecticut story and the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira:
As far as I know, no one is blaming God for the pastor’s death, so why would anyone blame him for the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira? If you must blame someone, blame sin. Sin kills people. Sin ruins marriages and destroys lives. Sin is bad.
And this is exactly why Jesus came – so that you might be free from the curse of sin and live. If there is any takeaway from the Ananias and Sapphira story, it’s that the wages of sin is death. That’s the bad news. But the good news is that God is good, he doesn’t treat you as your sins deserve, and he freely gives life to sinners.
That’s the gospel of Jesus that we all need to hear!
Unquote:
Here is the link if people are interested in viewing the questions.
https://escapetoreality.org/2015/04/09/what-about-ananias-and-sapphira/
After the event with the couple the Holy Spirit records this truth - that none of the "others" dared to associate with them. Who are "these others"? These were unbelievers wanting to join up with the Christians as people were giving to each other and they had all things in common.
Acts 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But none of the rest dared to associate with them; however, the people held them in high esteem.
Here is an interesting article that speaks about Ananias and Sapphira. I like to use this site sometimes because it gives a grace-based view of the finished work of Christ. It also has at the bottom where people can ask questions about the article. I often learn from that area too.
What about Ananias and Sapphira?
Recently in Connecticut, a pastor stood in front of his church and confessed to the sin of adultery. Then the pastor fell down dead, right in front of everyone. This proves that God expects his people to live holy lives and if they don’t, he’ll kill them.
Of course, that’s complete nonsense. The story is true – a Connecticut pastor really did die – but the interpretation is all wrong. The fact is, God doesn’t treat us as our sins deserve. But what are we to make of Ananias and Sapphira who, like the poor pastor, dropped dead in a church (Acts 5:1-11)?
The bizarre deaths of Ananias and Sapphira have been debated for 2,000 years. Why did they die? Did God kill them? Why did God kill them? Why is this story in the Bible? Am I supposed to learn something from it? What? Will God kill me if I lie?
Questions like these have provided sermon material for countless fear-mongers. “God killed Ananias and Sapphira because they sinned and if you’re not careful he’ll kill you too! So fear God and behave yourself.” Has there ever been a more damnable lie inflicted on those whom God loves? (Actually, I can think of several worse lies.)
Unpunishable on account of Jesus
I could give you a hundred scriptures to show you that God did not kill Ananias and Sapphira for their sins and to assure you that he won’t kill you for yours, but three should suffice:
(God) doesn’t punish us as our sins deserve. (Psalm 103:10, CEV)
The punishment that brought us peace was on him… (Isa 53:5b)
God is not counting people’s sins against them. (2 Cor 5:19b)
The very good news of Jesus is that your sins and my sins and the sins of that Connecticut pastor and the sins of Ananias and Sapphira were condemned on the cross and there is nothing left to condemn! God was angry with your sins, which is why he poured out his wrath and dealt with them once and for all at Calvary (Rom 8:3).
Those who accuse God of killing sinners are confused about the cross. God doesn’t kill sinners, he saves sinners. God doesn’t hate sinners, he loves them!
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Rom 5:8)
If God killed Ananias and Sapphira then the Bible is wrong and Jesus is not the Lamb of God who carried the sins of the world. (If you’re wondering about Herod, read this.)
There’s no shortage of sinners in this world. Why would God kill one couple and leave the rest alone?
I’ve heard it said that God killed Ananias and Sapphira to warn and purify the infant church. By making an example out of these hypocrites, the church would be filled with a holy fear and kept safe from liars and cheats. If so, then God failed spectacularly.
Liars, cheats and hypocrites have always been with us, and there were plenty in the New Testament church.
I’ve also heard it said that God set up this killing to establish the authority of his apostles. Never mind that Peter had been commissioned by the Lord and filled with the Holy Spirit. Like a kid going through a gangster initiation he had to kill someone to establish his bona fides.
How absurd! How utterly inconsistent with the message Peter had been commissioned to preach.
Meanwhile back in Connecticut
People sometimes ask me, “Did God kill Ananias and Sapphira?” When I reply in the negative I am invariably asked, “So who did?” as though there was some murder mystery to be solved. But the facts of their deaths may be more prosaic.
The pastor in Connecticut died from a sudden heart failure, which is very sad. Perhaps it was the stress of hiding a lie or losing his reputation that triggered the attack. At the time of his death there was speculation in the press that he didn’t plan to confess at all – the adultery was a long time ago – but he had been ambushed by church members who had heard about his affair.
Emotions were running high. There was shouting. The man died. Whatever happened, it’s a sad story. But I am struck by the similarities between the Connecticut story and the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira:
- By having a secret affair, you could argue that the pastor lied to his church and he lied to God, as did Ananias and Sapphira.
- The pastor was confronted by church members, as were Ananias and Sapphira.
- The pastor dropped down dead, just like Ananias and Sapphira.
As far as I know, no one is blaming God for the pastor’s death, so why would anyone blame him for the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira? If you must blame someone, blame sin. Sin kills people. Sin ruins marriages and destroys lives. Sin is bad.
And this is exactly why Jesus came – so that you might be free from the curse of sin and live. If there is any takeaway from the Ananias and Sapphira story, it’s that the wages of sin is death. That’s the bad news. But the good news is that God is good, he doesn’t treat you as your sins deserve, and he freely gives life to sinners.
That’s the gospel of Jesus that we all need to hear!
Unquote:
Here is the link if people are interested in viewing the questions.
https://escapetoreality.org/2015/04/09/what-about-ananias-and-sapphira/
Z
Zi
Guest
Yep Bethel and Hillsong are just media entertainment companies that do something called "gatherings" every week.
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
tut tut tut
they called Jesus a follower of the devil back in the day.
And the Pharisees having heard, said, "This man casts out the demons only by Beelzebul, the prince of the demons
Matt 12:24
and you know what He said about that.........
maybe we should ignore it....
