We resort to name calling when we lack Biblical knowledge needed to refute truth. Indeed, Paul was dead by 70 AD so when he says, "rest with us" he is speaking about his being resurrected and they being gathered together in a spiritual assembly of saints as he describes in 1 Thes 4. You either have not read or simply do not understand the meaning of Heb 6:4-12. If you had spiritual insight you wouldn't be making such foolish assertions here and all over this thread.
The Rapture
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VCO,
You finally have it!! So proud of you man. That's exactly who they were. They returned to Jerusalem after the final defeat at Masada after 73 AD and lived in and around the city. They were all Jewish Christians and they (and their descendants) laid the ground work for Jerusalem to be a predominantly Christian city even though Rome rebuilt the city in the 130s. Although Jerusalem would be invaded again and again, she remained largely Christian through the Crusades.
The only slight error is the "earthly" reign part so I deleted it for you. Christ reigns from heaven but His influence is felt all over the planet and has been since He left. We see in Heb 8 where Christ reigns and see He has no interest in ever reigning in another earthly temple because His blood ended the law, once and forever, and the law ain't coming back.
Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, [SUP]2 [/SUP]a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
Since Christ made the perfect (true) temple, why would he want to rule in an inferior one? Why would He ever want a counterfeit temple? It would be like you or I finger painting over the ceiling in the Sistine Chapel thinking we could do better than Michelangelo.
You finally have it!! So proud of you man. That's exactly who they were. They returned to Jerusalem after the final defeat at Masada after 73 AD and lived in and around the city. They were all Jewish Christians and they (and their descendants) laid the ground work for Jerusalem to be a predominantly Christian city even though Rome rebuilt the city in the 130s. Although Jerusalem would be invaded again and again, she remained largely Christian through the Crusades.
The only slight error is the "earthly" reign part so I deleted it for you. Christ reigns from heaven but His influence is felt all over the planet and has been since He left. We see in Heb 8 where Christ reigns and see He has no interest in ever reigning in another earthly temple because His blood ended the law, once and forever, and the law ain't coming back.
Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, [SUP]2 [/SUP]a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
Since Christ made the perfect (true) temple, why would he want to rule in an inferior one? Why would He ever want a counterfeit temple? It would be like you or I finger painting over the ceiling in the Sistine Chapel thinking we could do better than Michelangelo.
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Speaking of Land promises and such.
Joshua 21:43-45 "Thus the Lord gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. And the Lord gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the Lord had given all their enemies into their hands. Not one word of all the good promises that the Lord had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass."
Joshua 21:43-45 "Thus the Lord gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. And the Lord gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the Lord had given all their enemies into their hands. Not one word of all the good promises that the Lord had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass."
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.Rev 14:1
Not men only are redeemed but mankind....the new creation (neither male nor female Jew nor Gentile)She is made up of many lively stones that does fofm the spiritual unseen house of God the church..called His chaste virgin bride. The one and only bride.
The chaste virgin bride the church she is redeemed . Neither male and female. The new creation is the description in that parable .No man is simply, no person .Gender has no value with the new creation.
Proverbs 2:16 To deliver thee from the strange woman, even from the stranger which flattereth with her words;
Proverbs 5:3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:
Pro 23:27 For a whore is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit.
Proverbs 6:24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman.
Proverbs 7:5 That they may keep thee from the strange woman, from the stranger which flattereth with her words. (coming from the father of lies).
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women(strange woman ); for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
The new creation the chaste virgin bride the church is redeemed from among mankind.
God created mankind male.(Same one creation) male and female he made him ,the rest two separate creations male and female he made them
A man not having sexual relationships has never been a part of the gospel. Not fulfilling their duties does not make up the all of the redeemed from the beginning of time.
The virgin is the chaste virgin bride of Christ made up of mankind that has no other gods( strange woman) before them .
It’s the Christian that do not fortification by going after the strange woman (gods) and violating the first commandment.lLke that of Solomon.
Woman are not eliminated from the description of an unknown number all children from every nation (not just the outward Jew of the Israel that is the true born again Israel . Not all Israel is born again Israel (Christian) the new name he named us in Acts.. because the time of reformation had come..
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.Rev 7:4 .......Not just the males of Isreal
Tribes represent gates in which we enter fellowship with God... just as Apostles represent the wall of the city coming down prepared as one bride, one gospel . Not a gospel for the men that remain celibate as those redeemed only.
The thousand represents a unknown signified by that which is seen, the temporal .
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. Revelation 14 (not a remnant of those redeemed but the whole or perfect )
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they (the bride of Christ) which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men,(not as man ) being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.Rev 14:4
From among men not as if they were exclusively men that have not had any sexual relationship with women ....Christ is the husband .
We are the chaste virgin bride espoused to one husband Christ..
The bride of Christ is the mother of us all . We can see that spiritual law working in Paul used as a segregate womb as the mother of us all... as he holds out the gospel to Timothy.. until Christ is formed in Him. Christ causes the growth as the life of the seed (one )
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I (signified...as the mother of us all the heavenly Jerusalem prepared as the one bride) travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
That spiritual law hid in the parables is shown in the Old testament..
For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom (Christ) rejoiceth over the bride(the church), so shall thy God rejoice over thee. Isa 62:5....... His chaste virgin bride, is the only church.
Not men only are redeemed but mankind....the new creation (neither male nor female Jew nor Gentile)She is made up of many lively stones that does fofm the spiritual unseen house of God the church..called His chaste virgin bride. The one and only bride.
The chaste virgin bride the church she is redeemed . Neither male and female. The new creation is the description in that parable .No man is simply, no person .Gender has no value with the new creation.
Proverbs 2:16 To deliver thee from the strange woman, even from the stranger which flattereth with her words;
Proverbs 5:3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:
Pro 23:27 For a whore is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit.
Proverbs 6:24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman.
Proverbs 7:5 That they may keep thee from the strange woman, from the stranger which flattereth with her words. (coming from the father of lies).
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women(strange woman ); for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
The new creation the chaste virgin bride the church is redeemed from among mankind.
God created mankind male.(Same one creation) male and female he made him ,the rest two separate creations male and female he made them
A man not having sexual relationships has never been a part of the gospel. Not fulfilling their duties does not make up the all of the redeemed from the beginning of time.
The virgin is the chaste virgin bride of Christ made up of mankind that has no other gods( strange woman) before them .
It’s the Christian that do not fortification by going after the strange woman (gods) and violating the first commandment.lLke that of Solomon.
Woman are not eliminated from the description of an unknown number all children from every nation (not just the outward Jew of the Israel that is the true born again Israel . Not all Israel is born again Israel (Christian) the new name he named us in Acts.. because the time of reformation had come..
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.Rev 7:4 .......Not just the males of Isreal
Tribes represent gates in which we enter fellowship with God... just as Apostles represent the wall of the city coming down prepared as one bride, one gospel . Not a gospel for the men that remain celibate as those redeemed only.
The thousand represents a unknown signified by that which is seen, the temporal .
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. Revelation 14 (not a remnant of those redeemed but the whole or perfect )
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they (the bride of Christ) which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men,(not as man ) being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.Rev 14:4
From among men not as if they were exclusively men that have not had any sexual relationship with women ....Christ is the husband .
We are the chaste virgin bride espoused to one husband Christ..
The bride of Christ is the mother of us all . We can see that spiritual law working in Paul used as a segregate womb as the mother of us all... as he holds out the gospel to Timothy.. until Christ is formed in Him. Christ causes the growth as the life of the seed (one )
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I (signified...as the mother of us all the heavenly Jerusalem prepared as the one bride) travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
That spiritual law hid in the parables is shown in the Old testament..
For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom (Christ) rejoiceth over the bride(the church), so shall thy God rejoice over thee. Isa 62:5....... His chaste virgin bride, is the only church.
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Its an evil generation the generation of man that seeks after signs to observe, as wonders (the faith principle)
The Amil position works the best in signifying, using signs as shadows to point to the unseen faith principle. . . But even in that there are many different fingerprints just as any other end time opinion.
The tribulation could nor get any worst than that Christ pouring out his blood as if it was Spirit. The time of refomation came leaving the Jew without an outward representative to be used as shadows and types in ceremonial laws up until the time of refomation.. It is the tribulation such as the world has never seen nor ever will again"
He who has no form came in the flesh once ......never to appear again in the flesh. God is not a man as us, never was never could be. Eternal supernatural Spirit remains without mother or father, beginning of Spirit life or end thereof of eternal Spirit life.
The Amil position works the best in signifying, using signs as shadows to point to the unseen faith principle. . . But even in that there are many different fingerprints just as any other end time opinion.
The tribulation could nor get any worst than that Christ pouring out his blood as if it was Spirit. The time of refomation came leaving the Jew without an outward representative to be used as shadows and types in ceremonial laws up until the time of refomation.. It is the tribulation such as the world has never seen nor ever will again"
He who has no form came in the flesh once ......never to appear again in the flesh. God is not a man as us, never was never could be. Eternal supernatural Spirit remains without mother or father, beginning of Spirit life or end thereof of eternal Spirit life.
To all believers in God then;
"This means everlasting life, that they may know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent".
So why...all the different beliefs then ?
My theory is that the man made Churches... are to blame !!!
Remember the times way back, when Bibles were burnt (and you too if you had one).
"Oh no"... the "holy than thou" said, the Bible is for "US" only to interpret.
From those days to now, there are so many "Christian" religions, (beliefs), and over 35,000 different denominations !!!
To me...a great end time SIGN, is that private Bible study is all of a sudden BOOMING.
To me...the TRUTH will come from us speaking together, with ONE leader only...our Lord Jesus. NO CHURCH.
Daniel 12 ALL... end times for sure . H; "Go Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end".
" But go your way till the end". (And now comes the heaven or earth part).
"And you shall rest and stand up in your allotted place at the end of the days".
So...did Daniel do straight to heaven ? Clearly NOT.
Are any of us better than DANIEL ??? NO WAY brother.
"This means everlasting life, that they may know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent".
So why...all the different beliefs then ?
My theory is that the man made Churches... are to blame !!!
Remember the times way back, when Bibles were burnt (and you too if you had one).
"Oh no"... the "holy than thou" said, the Bible is for "US" only to interpret.
From those days to now, there are so many "Christian" religions, (beliefs), and over 35,000 different denominations !!!
To me...a great end time SIGN, is that private Bible study is all of a sudden BOOMING.
To me...the TRUTH will come from us speaking together, with ONE leader only...our Lord Jesus. NO CHURCH.
Daniel 12 ALL... end times for sure . H; "Go Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end".
" But go your way till the end". (And now comes the heaven or earth part).
"And you shall rest and stand up in your allotted place at the end of the days".
So...did Daniel do straight to heaven ? Clearly NOT.
Are any of us better than DANIEL ??? NO WAY brother.
My guess is you do not understand that the Bride is the sum total of ALL TRUE BELIEVERS OF ALL TIME, both the Remnant SAVED in the O.T. and the N.T.
In Fact JESUS NEVER SAID THE WORD CHURCH. HE SAID HE WOULD BUILD HIS ASSEMBLY. Look up the Greek word for CHURCH, it's definition is an ASSEMBLY, the same thing He call O.T. True Believers. He has been building His Assembly from ADAM on. The word Church was a Substution for what He really said, because it was what the N.T. ASSEMBLY was calling itself. ALSO the Apostles themselves used the same Greek word that LITERALLY TRANSLATES ASSEMBLY.
Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;
John 10:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16[/SUP] But I have other sheep {N.T. Saints, but remember the Birthday of the Church is not until Pentecost after HIS Ascension.} that are not of this fold {O.T. Saints that believed God would send a Messiah.}; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then {At the Rapture.} there will be one flock, one shepherd.
Isaiah 62:1-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] I will not keep silent because of Zion, and I will not keep still because of Jerusalem, until her righteousness shines like a bright light and her salvation, like a flaming torch.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Nations will see your righteousness and all kings, your glory. You will be called by a new name that the LORD’s mouth will announce.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] You will be a glorious crown in the LORD’s hand, and a royal diadem in the palm of your God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] You will no longer be called Deserted, and your land will not be called Desolate; instead, you will be called My Delight is in Her, and your land Married; for the LORD delights in you, and your land will be married.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For as a young man marries a young woman, so your sons will marry you; and as a groom rejoices over ⌊his⌋ bride,so your God will rejoice over you.
Hosea 2:19-20 (GWT)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] “Israel, I will make you my wife forever.I will be honest and faithful to you. I will show you my love and compassion.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I will be true to you, my wife. Then you will know the LORD.
Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
Galatians 3:5-6 (ESV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
[SUP]6 [/SUP] just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
Numbers 27:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] So the LORD said to Moses, "Take Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the Spirit, and lay your hand on him;
1 Chronicles 12:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Then the Spirit came upon Amasai, who was the chief of the thirty, and he said, "We are yours, O David, And with you, O son of Jesse! Peace, peace to you, And peace to him who helps you; Indeed, your God helps you!" Then David received them and made them captains of the band.
Nehemiah 9:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "You gave Your good Spirit to instruct them, Your manna You did not withhold from their mouth, And You gave them water for their thirst.
Psalm 51:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
Psalm 143:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Teach me to do Your will, For You are my God; Let Your good Spirit lead me on level ground.
Malachi 2:14-16 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "Yet you say, 'For what reason?' Because the LORD has been a witness
between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously,
though she is your companion and your wife by covenant.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "But not one has done so who has a remnant of the Spirit.
And what did that one do while he was seeking a godly offspring? Take heed then
to your spirit, and let no one deal treacherously against the wife of your youth.
[SUP]16[/SUP] "For I hate divorce," says the LORD, the God of Israel,
"and him who covers his garment with wrong," says the LORD of hosts. "So take heed
to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously."
I hope you are beginning to understand, we are not better than the TRUE BELIEVERS
of ISRAEL, we are both Sinners Saved by Grace. READ AGAIN Gal. 3:5-6, THE LORD
HAS BEEN IN THE BUSINESS OF SAVING PEOPLE BY GRACE, EVER SINCE ADAM.
THE LAW NEVER WAS A WAY TO BE SAVED BY WORKS, BUT RATHER A WAY TO
PROVE THAT EVERYONE NEEDED A MESSIAH.
Every O.T. Saint is one who believed GOD would send a MESSIAH, to pay for our sins.
Every N.T. Saint is one who believed GOD did send a MESSIAH, to pay for our sins.
It is the SAME FAITH, the FAITH OF ABRAHAM.
That makes them CO-EQUALLY PART OF THE BRIDE OF MESSIAH, JESUS CHRIST.
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Plainword da reason some here resort to so called name calling towards u is bcuz i can imagine its hard to react in a rational and normal way to the crazy claims u are making.
most regular christians have probably never heard of what u are saying its so out of left field. its in da ocean actually swimming with da redjaw snappers.
most regular christians have probably never heard of what u are saying its so out of left field. its in da ocean actually swimming with da redjaw snappers.
Well, the Bible said when we are telling the Truth to people like we should, we will be called names and persecuted, even with lies about us. My Lord will make it right when we get to Heaven. I know a lot of people calling themselves Christians puff themselves up to think of themselves as Better than the Israelites of the Old Testament, but in reality we are as great a sinners as they were. I used to be a Volunteer Prison Chaplain ministering to the most violent Inmates in the State of California, so I am kind of used to being called names. I used to tell them, we are not better than the worst mass murderer on Death Row; we are as BAD AS HIM.
James 2:9-10 (CSBBible)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If, however, you show favoritism, you commit sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the entire law, and yet stumbles at one point,
is guilty of breaking it all.
Thus, even a little thing such as momentarily showing favoritism, makes us a Guilty in the site of GOD as the worst mass murderer on Death Row.
Matthew 5:10-12 (CSBBible)
[SUP]10[/SUP] Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for the kingdom of heaven is theirs.
[SUP]11[/SUP] "You are blessed when they insult you and persecute you and falsely say every kind of evil against you because of me.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Be glad and rejoice, because your reward is great in heaven. For that is how they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
And if I am called names because I have boldness to share the TRUTH with everyone, so be it. I do not believe in watering down the truth to make it more palitable, like so many of the Liberal Easy Believism Churches of Today do.
I think the real thorn in the side of anyone on my Ignore List, is they cannot push my button any more to make me mad, and if they bad mouth me, they expose themselves as false prophets by exhibiting BAD FRUIT. Here are two I had add to my IGNORE LIST, because of constant button pushing, and scoffing. Since I added them to my IGNORE LIST (peace at last), because here is all I see on my screen, no matter what Thread they post on. Makes it way easier to maintain the Good Fruit of Longsuffering, which is the opposite of Short Tempered, that they appeared to be striving for.
James 2:9-10 (CSBBible)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If, however, you show favoritism, you commit sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the entire law, and yet stumbles at one point,
is guilty of breaking it all.
Thus, even a little thing such as momentarily showing favoritism, makes us a Guilty in the site of GOD as the worst mass murderer on Death Row.
Matthew 5:10-12 (CSBBible)
[SUP]10[/SUP] Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for the kingdom of heaven is theirs.
[SUP]11[/SUP] "You are blessed when they insult you and persecute you and falsely say every kind of evil against you because of me.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Be glad and rejoice, because your reward is great in heaven. For that is how they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
And if I am called names because I have boldness to share the TRUTH with everyone, so be it. I do not believe in watering down the truth to make it more palitable, like so many of the Liberal Easy Believism Churches of Today do.
I think the real thorn in the side of anyone on my Ignore List, is they cannot push my button any more to make me mad, and if they bad mouth me, they expose themselves as false prophets by exhibiting BAD FRUIT. Here are two I had add to my IGNORE LIST, because of constant button pushing, and scoffing. Since I added them to my IGNORE LIST (peace at last), because here is all I see on my screen, no matter what Thread they post on. Makes it way easier to maintain the Good Fruit of Longsuffering, which is the opposite of Short Tempered, that they appeared to be striving for.
