Not By Works

[Seohce]

Do you have something to add of value?

Is what you said of value or you're just bullying again.

BTW, Good PM Sir, you might have forgotten your daily dose of medicine so here it is again:

Matthew 19:16-30 The Rich Young Man Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?” Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

Have a humble and truthful day!

 

[Magenta]

They go into overdrive, it's quite a sight to see.

Who is they?

Sure. Do some earnest, self reflection on why my comment regarding general observations to someone else, which had nothing to do with you at all, garnered such a defensive spirit in you.

A series of posts full of condemnation, false accusations, and near profanity was made concerning an unspecified "they," yet you agreed. How do you know DCon was not included in the "they"? He was after all, one of the people who put a like on one of the mod's two posts.

For the record, and you can check for yourself if you would like to verify, people did not talk for 30-40 minutes after the mod posted about how great he was. That was a blatant lie. Looks like Stephen was getting his dig in because the mod criticized him. Talk about overdrive...

Says the man with 500 posts in this thread

And if I were to permanently close this thread another one just like it will arise within weeks (if not days) and you (and numerous others from both sides of the debate will be waiting to correct (ad infinitum) those whose doctrine does not line up with yours perfectly.

 

[loveme1]

Does everyone agree that we are saved by Grace through Faith unto good works?

And the Lord will judge His people according to Faith? Which according to scripture is dead without works.

Believing to the saving of your soul...

By Faith of Hearing the Gospel and believing... oppose to circumcising your outwardly or abstaining from certain foods and celebrating the feasts.. etc..

The Root is the force of any fruit that comes from grafted in branches by belief..

The fruit is evidence of being grafted in... to the True vine.

Romans 11


17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in hisgoodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

 

[loveme1]

[h=1]1 Peter 1King James Version (KJV)[/h]1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

 

[dcontroversal]

Is what you said of value or you're just bullying again.

BTW, Good PM Sir, you might have forgotten your daily dose of medicine so here it is again:

Matthew 19:16-30 The Rich Young Man Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?” Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

Have a humble and truthful day!

A simple question...and of course you would say what you said knowing full well you disagree with me!!

 

[Magenta]

Does everyone agree that we are saved by Grace through Faith unto good works?

I believe so There may be one exception, though, so you may want
to check with the person who has been disagreeing with Scripture.

 

[Seohce]

We have consistently stated that faith alone saves eternally and that any work or fruit produced are the direct result of the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ.....eternally I might add!

New International Version 1984 Hebrews 5:8-9 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.

New International Version 1984 James 2:19-24 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

HONESTLY, DOES THESE SOUND, APPEAR OR COMPREHENDED AS "FAITH ALONE SAVES".

 

[Magenta]

Also, you may want to "Go Advanced" before you post your cut and paste wall of texts from the Bible, so you can make edits. That will allow you to modify the font so people can actually read it if they wish. Many have trouble deciphering such small fonts, and enlarging the page is not always an acceptable or convenient option. Also, it helps if you put in paragraph breaks. Some will not even try to read such a wall of text. If you think it is fine the way it is, that is okay too. I am simply making helpful suggestions based on the general consensus of forum posters

 

[dcontroversal]

New International Version 1984 Hebrews 5:8-9 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.

New International Version 1984 James 2:19-24 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

HONESTLY, DOES THESE SOUND, APPEAR OR COMPREHENDED AS "FAITH ALONE SAVES".

Yep...when put in context will ALL THE OTHER SCRIPTURES THAT STATES SUCH......

He that BELIEVES on the Son is having everlasting life.

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

If you believe with all your heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved.

In the grace you are having been saved OUT OF FAITH and that NOT OF YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT of God not of works lest any man should boast.

The work of the Father--->BELIEVE ON THE ONE WHOM HE SENT..

You can forget ever changing my mind...the bible teaches faith saves...NO ONE CAN UNDERSTAND THE WORD, MUCH LESS APPLY THE WORD BEFORE they are SPIRITUALLY BORN FROM ABOVE....see Corinthians.....!!

 

[loveme1]

[h=1]Romans 4King James Version (KJV)[/h]4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.



The topic of circumcision v uncircumcision.... being Justified by Faith..

Teaching that we are heirs not by the law but by Righteousness of Faith.


You must keep the teachings in context.

 

[Magenta]

New International Version 1984 Hebrews 5:8-9 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.

New International Version 1984 James 2:19-24 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

HONESTLY, DOES THESE SOUND, APPEAR OR COMPREHENDED AS "FAITH ALONE SAVES".

Would you mind telling me your source for the 1984 edition of NIV? When I check Biblegateway, the last line says,"You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone."

I ask because the words righteousness and justification may come from the same root word, but they take on different meanings depending on whom is being discussed, and so are not truly synonymous. Here is a page that helps clarify the subtleties of the root word: http://helpmewithbiblestudy.org/9Salvation/JustifyDifferenceFromRighteous.aspx#sthash.85glWKsH.dpbs

Here is why I think it is important: https://www.gotquestions.org/justification.html

 

[dcontroversal]

[h=1]Romans 4King James Version (KJV)[/h]4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.



The topic of circumcision v uncircumcision.... being Justified by Faith..

Teaching that we are heirs not by the law but by Righteousness of Faith.


You must keep the teachings in context.

There are a few here who reject verse 6 and go about to establish their own righteousness by a working for dogma that includes some sort of sinless perfectionism.....tragically I might add...

 

[Seohce]

Yep...when put in context will ALL THE OTHER SCRIPTURES THAT STATES SUCH......

He that BELIEVES on the Son is having everlasting life.

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

If you believe with all your heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved.

In the grace you are having been saved OUT OF FAITH and that NOT OF YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT of God not of works lest any man should boast.

The work of the Father--->BELIEVE ON THE ONE WHOM HE SENT..

You can forget ever changing my mind...the bible teaches faith saves...NO ONE CAN UNDERSTAND THE WORD, MUCH LESS APPLY THE WORD BEFORE they are SPIRITUALLY BORN FROM ABOVE....see Corinthians.....!!

Where's the honesty there when you haven't even shown just a single verse that say's FAITH ALONE SAVES & ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED?

YOU CANNOT ADD ANYTHING TO GOD'S WORD.

 

[loveme1]

There are a few here who reject verse 6 and go about to establish their own righteousness by a working for dogma that includes some sort of sinless perfectionism.....tragically I might add...

If a man does that which GOD commands.. is he righteous by his work of because He believed GOD?

 

[Seohce]

Where's the honesty there when you haven't even shown just a single verse that say's FAITH ALONE SAVES & ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED?

YOU CANNOT ADD ANYTHING TO GOD'S WORD.

And who on this thread ever said that they don't have faith contrary to what you're trying to persuade people to believe? Is this not the CHRISTIAN chat?

 

[loveme1]

Where's the honesty there when you haven't even shown just a single verse that say's FAITH ALONE SAVES & ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED?

YOU CANNOT ADD ANYTHING TO GOD'S WORD.

It is written the Just shall live by Faith... and it is written that Faith without works is dead.



Many use verses that are teaching against the works of the circumcision..

The good works that come by believing and being grafted in branches of the True vine are good fruit that come by Grace through Faith.


The Lord will judge His people.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Here is an excellent teaching to feed yourself with about the love of our Lord for us. This is the first part of week 1 on the Song of Solomon.

Each week has 2 parts to it and they are all available on youtube. I believe it goes for 6 or 7 weeks and you will be able to go to the next one by looking at the week# and part 1 or 2 in that week.

Give a listen and let us know what you hear. Bless you. You are precious in the eyes of our Lord.


[video]2 Samuel 3:2 (NASB) [/video]

Morning Grace...The link comes up blank...Off to see my son soon so will check back, if i cant find post, maybe you could pm it to me and thank you...xox...

 

[Rosemaryx]

Opps...forgot the link for the video.


[video=youtube;I5fHH8gr76A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5fHH8gr76A[/video]

HAHA...Just see this after i posted to first post...Will watch later...xox...

 

[loveme1]

2 Corinthians 5King James Version (KJV)

5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.




6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.




12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.




16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.




18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.




21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[dcontroversal]

If a man does that which GOD commands.. is he righteous by his work of because He believed GOD?

Verse 6 speaks for itself and speaks of positional righteousness and sanctification found in Christ based upon faith.