Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

So many go against scripture as the norm here .. making up something to scratch itchy ears..

Yes, so why do you do that?

 

[stonesoffire]

This has piqued my curiosity. (The last sentence).
If He IS eternal life, and someone doesn't have Him in them by the new birth, will they live forever somewhere?

I think so.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sooooo...how's it going, everyone?

Going great here! Getting ready to head t church. Hope your doing fine

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I'm not an annihilationist, so yes.. We are 3 in one. We don't cease to exist without a casing or body.

Good morning by the way!

So you think we are born with eternal life within us? That we are born with a part that never dies?

I have labored over this in my mind. And am curious to hear how others see it.

 

[Zi]

I already did.. and looking into it... that's why I said nevermind..

They aren't REAL worms. That's just a metaphor. Read this.. Taken from rcg.org.

What is the meaning of “worms that die not,” in Mark 9:44-48?

These verses may seem to indicate that Jesus was calling sinners “worms” and that they do not die but rather live in an everlasting fiery torment. Indeed, some believe this. Others believe that it refers to some kind of “immortal worms.” One of the key things they fail to recognize however is that Jesus said, “their worms.”
He was actually referring to the primary method of garbage disposal of that time. The word “worm” may be better translated from the original Greek word skolex as “grub” or “maggot.” In verse 47, He refers to “hell,” which the margins in some Bibles indicate should be better translated as “Gehenna.” This was also called the Valley of Hinnom and was an area located outside the city of Jerusalem, where trash, animal carcasses, and even carcasses of criminals were incinerated by fire. Of course, maggots devoured anything not destroyed by the heat.
The point was that for anything thrown into that valley, complete destruction was inevitable. Similarly, there can be no escaping the result of unrepentant sin—death in the “lake of fire” (Rev. 20:14-15). A similar scenario is discussed in Isaiah 66:24, and again the meaning is not that the unrepentant sinner or “worms” live forever. The maggots live only as long as there is “food.” The fire burns only as long as there is fuel. Again, the point is that sin not repented of has dire consequences—complete and permanent death!

 

[FranC]

gods people do good works, if we are not gods, we can do good deeds, but God rejects them as human good.

We work because we are saved, not to maintain salvation,

So WHO here is NOT GOD'S people???

Maybe you could speak to Grace and come up with a list?

WHO HERE is working to GET SAVED???????????

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This has piqued my curiosity. (The last sentence).
If He IS eternal life, and someone doesn't have Him in them by the new birth, will they live forever somewhere?

not with him, what do we call that?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

why is it so hard to comprehend the believers obey God from love and a new nature; not to earn something??

gah! lol

Pride, pride hates charity, they see they have sinned, and they demand to pay for it themselves.

Thats why why that lie of Satan is so successful, it talked to our flesh.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Good morning by the way!

So you think we are born with eternal life within us? That we are born with a part that never dies?

I have labored over this in my mind. And am curious to hear how others see it.

It appears to me that satan has this, but then it seems to me that God didn't allow this to happen with us when He blocked the way to the tree of life so we couldn't eat it and live forever in our state...

 

[FranC]

The deeds we do are out of being led by Holy Spirit Fran.

No phases, just life in the Spirit of God. As a sprititual being, no longer of human nature, though it is a progressive thing in understanding.

I truly wish I had known these things in my younger years because I listen and watch these young ministers moving in the power of Holy Spirit.

But, I can share these things in the hopes that others catch the fire.

so to reiterate...the thread is about not by works.

To do the works that we are commissioned to do is by Holy Spirit, as He leads us. That is kingdom living. And our character is being formed in the image of God, yet still His work. The promises are now yes and amen, and we can stand on the. The power of life is always in the Holy Ghost...and now I feel like singing it. Lol

Even our godliness is given. Amazing grace!

I give up.
Go do your assignment and then come back and we could REALLY talk what JESUS talked.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They aren't REAL worms. That's just a metaphor. Read this.. Taken from rcg.org.

What is the meaning of “worms that die not,” in Mark 9:44-48?

These verses may seem to indicate that Jesus was calling sinners “worms” and that they do not die but rather live in an everlasting fiery torment. Indeed, some believe this. Others believe that it refers to some kind of “immortal worms.” One of the key things they fail to recognize however is that Jesus said, “their worms.”
He was actually referring to the primary method of garbage disposal of that time. The word “worm” may be better translated from the original Greek word skolex as “grub” or “maggot.” In verse 47, He refers to “hell,” which the margins in some Bibles indicate should be better translated as “Gehenna.” This was also called the Valley of Hinnom and was an area located outside the city of Jerusalem, where trash, animal carcasses, and even carcasses of criminals were incinerated by fire. Of course, maggots devoured anything not destroyed by the heat.
The point was that for anything thrown into that valley, complete destruction was inevitable. Similarly, there can be no escaping the result of unrepentant sin—death in the “lake of fire” (Rev. 20:14-15). A similar scenario is discussed in Isaiah 66:24, and again the meaning is not that the unrepentant sinner or “worms” live forever. The maggots live only as long as there is “food.” The fire burns only as long as there is fuel. Again, the point is that sin not repented of has dire consequences—complete and permanent death!

The worm is a symbol of the soul, it will not die.

 

[Zi]

Eternal life.. has to be defined..
A regenerate body? Not everyone will get a glorified one

Will they cease to exist without? Impossible because they await judgement at the resurrection

Good morning by the way!

So you think we are born with eternal life within us? That we are born with a part that never dies?

I have labored over this in my mind. And am curious to hear how others see it.

 

[Muzungu256]

Here's the problem:

And Grace777 agrees with you.
Nice.

So now we're saved, and you say in your above post:

who doesnt still do those after getting saved

And you even add to this statement:

dont know of any who doesnt do atleast some of those in the bold:

Then you go on to list a Whole bunch of rather undesireable traits for those in the Kingdom of God to display or have.


Personally, I don't know anyone who says they're saved that do these things you list.

I know, you're going to say I'm perfect.
I thank you for the compliment, but that's the incorrect answer.

We're not to ENCOURAGE each other to sin.
§We're supposed to ENCOURAGE each other not to sin as the day draws nigh.

What kind of teaching of Jesus do you expose?
I remember Jesus saying be PERFECT (or complete) as your father in heaven is perfect.

Are we complete in Christ when doing what you speak of?
NO!

So why encourage it????

hi franc............ i think al humans are prone to outbursts of anger atleast?????? maybe i just havent ever met a real christian in my entire life.........

 

[mailmandan]

I'm going to list some.
But keep in mind that some believe that our reward will be something other than heaven. Our reward IS HEAVEN.
Then, Beyond that, we don't really know if there will also be some type of "reward" in heaven. if YOU have some scripsture about this, I'd appreciate seeing it. Personally, I'm not too concerned with rewards which is why I've never responded to this.
For me, HEAVEN is my reward, as the N.T. teaches me.

This is the exact same argument that I hear from Roman Catholics and other works salvationists.

**************************************************************

James 1:12 -

Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Is "persevering under trial and love Him" DESCRIPTIVE of believers or unbelievers?

Colossians 3:23-24 -

23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

It's true that all Christians have an inheritance in heaven (given as God’s gift of grace when we believe the gospel) that will not fade away and is reserved for us (1 Peter 1:4), but that is not all that is involved in the inheritance. There is a secondary inheritance that is in regards to rewards based on our works.

Matthew 16:27 -

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

There it is! He shall REWARD every man according to his works. *Jesus did not say He will grant the gift of eternal life to every man based on the merit of his works.

Matthew 25:21 -

His lord said unto him, Well done, [thou] good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Faithful over a few things resulted in make thee ruler over many things. All believers will enter into the joy of the Lord, yet not all believers will be equally rewarded.

Romans 2:6

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

*****************************************************************

If one reads Romans 2:6 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it's imperative to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving eternal life. So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved.

Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. This is descriptive of unbelievers. Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9).

What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of our salvation, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of our salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8,9 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1, but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 4:2-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).

There are many more.
For instance, the very last one... God will repay each person according to what they have done...
This has to be coupled with John 5:28-29

John 5:28-29 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,

29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

You continue to read the Bible through the lens of works salvation and you also continue to confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture.

The good deeds of the redeemed (those who have done good) are not the basis of their salvation but the evidence of it. A person's conduct, whether good or evil, reveals the condition of his heart.

Doing good flows inescapably from a heart that is saved and doing evil flows equally inescapably from a heart that is unsaved, as we already saw in Romans 2:6-10. Notice that ALL who come forth unto the resurrection of life (believers - vs. 24) are described as those who have done good and ALL that come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (unbelievers) are described as those who have done evil.

What did Jesus say in John 3:18? - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already..

Are believers described as "those who have done good" or those who have done evil?"

Are unbelievers described as those "who have done evil" or "those who have done good?"

 

[Zi]

They would have lived forever after corruption in the state they were now in.

It appears to me that satan has this, but then it seems to me that God didn't allow this to happen with us when He blocked the way to the tree of life so we couldn't eat it and live forever in our state...

 

[stonesoffire]

I give up.
Go do your assignment and then come back and we could REALLY talk what JESUS talked.

If you want to discuss scripture with me Fran, bring them. One by one and will discuss.

By the way, Jesus fulfilled His mission. Then sent Holy Spirit for the work in us. Listen to Paul, for he was given the revelation of the body of Christ, who is us on earth, and those in heaven.

 

[notmyown]

So WHO here is NOT GOD'S people???

Maybe you could speak to Grace and come up with a list?

WHO HERE is working to GET SAVED???????????

with great respect to you, ma'am, i think the question is who's working to stay saved?

my husband and i were reading Isaiah and Jeremiah yesterday. so many times God speaks of what HE is doing, and will do.
"I will not share my glory with another."

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Eternal life.. has to be defined..
A regenerate body? Not everyone will get a glorified one

Will they cease to exist without? Impossible because they await judgement at the resurrection

But it seems with what I've read that they will be brought to life again only to then die a second death...doubly dead - once humanly, as we all die, and then a second time because they have no eternal life by the second birth.

Interesting stuff here!

 

[Zi]

Forever tormented. They still exist

But it seems with what I've read that they will be brought to life again only to then die a second death...doubly dead - once humanly, as we all die, and then a second time because they have no eternal life by the second birth.

Interesting stuff here!

 

[Nehemiah6]

So you think we are born with eternal life within us? That we are born with a part that never dies?

No, no one is born with eternal life within them, since eternal life is God's GIFT to the one who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ and repents of his sins (Romans 6:23).

However, all human beings are tripartite beings, with a spirit, a soul, and a body (1 Thess 5:23). Mortality always pertains to the body and physical death. The spirit and soul are imperishable, which means that there is an afterlife for both the saved (in Heaven) and the unsaved (in Hades until the final judgment). Annihilationism -- a false doctrine -- teaches that the unsaved cease to exist. That is because they misinterpret or deliberately choose to misunderstand "perish" and "destroy". That is not true, but that is what Satan would love to see people believe.