Not By Works
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Me too brother, but it isn't just a feeling.
Well, sort of, but not quite. You need to think a lot deeper. FGT teaches that a person is saved "no matter what" and no matter how they live and this is then, falsely, integrated into osas and they have no place together. Of course Scripture proves this no matter what (FGT) incorrect. As far as perseverance of the saints, preservation of the saints in determining their eternal salvation being secure, which it is, and to which they can never lose Scripture is clear as to their lifestyle, progressive sanctification, bearing fruit &c.
There are many on here who have poisoned the well so to speak in rejecting sound doctrine of evidence of conversion and have embraced the tenets of easy believe ism and decisional regeneration, that, as far as church history are concerned are new comers to the church, and are frankly false teachings. Many are deceived by this.
What is today derogatorily termed "Lordship Salvation" was the position of the church through the centuries. It embraced evidence of conversion, God's sanctifying work, salvation 100% of God, the gift of faith, inability of man to come to God &c. It rejected, rightfully so this newer free will decisionism brought forward by the likes of Robert Sandeman, Charles G. Finney and of course Pelagius.
Two books of late crystallized this schism in the body, one being The Grace Awakening and the other being The Gospel According to Jesus. The latter was lambasted because easy-believe-ism already had a firm grip in most churches and the true Gospel that was preached through the ages was to be rejected. People couldn't stand, especially here in the West, God being Sovereign in salvation via election, predestination &c. Man became sovereign, and it became up to him to save himself by making a decision. This was all popularized by Finney and so-called "The New Divinity."
But they are not the authority and many in here are in error concerning the doctrine. I've actually withstood some of their teachings on here concerning their understanding of teh Gospel, salvation, and osas.
Keep in mind many are indoctrinated by the false teachings of FGT which was basically founded by Lewis Sperry Chafer who also brought in the false dichotomy of disciple/believer. You will not see this taught by the early church because it is unbiblical. It is a centerpiece of easy-believe-ism and many have believed it not knowing its roots are recent and are not orthodox. Basically it is this: "I'm going to choose to go to heaven, hold the disciple thing, hold the sanctification thing, hold the evidence of new birth, holf the bearing fruit thing. Just heaven, nothing else. See ya later, God."
And there are many preachers, many, who will popishly declare them on their way to heaven.
From that I can understand your frustration, and I share in it, although I reject your teaching of loss of salvation.
I've noted what you've stated below but brother, you are in error there. I know what you're trying to say, and I appreciate your zeal to wanting others to live a holy life. Some, yes, depart from "the faith" not from salvation of truly knowing Christ as Savior, but from the system of belief, i.e. the faith, the teachings &c but these were never saved to begin with. They were always dogs, or hogs, and have returned to their ways publicly.
Think these things through, we are not as far off as one may think.
If you are honest, you can see what I am saying and that my position is quite a bit different than the antinomian osas group who believe a saved person can go on however they want with no evidence of conversion. This is contrary to biblical orthodoxy and Scripture.
I also hope, my friend, to retain you as such. I hope to see more of the grace of God stemming from myself, and you also toward others.
God bless you Stephen63.
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UnderGrace, Ariel, Katy, StunnedbyGrace, and Rosemary are all exemplary at telling us what spiritual growth and moving onward to spiritual maturity and progressive sanctification looks like after we are saved... and they are not the only ones who speak to this, for there are those who repeatedly give Scriptures on it as well as speaking from a more personal growth point of view.
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Amen we called to receive, He wants us to receive, He wants to take advantage of His abounding Grace
If one has been raised with knowledge of farming one knows that the vine is in the receiving position, it is not in in the position of feeding the tree. This is spiritual maturity
The branches receive from the vine, that is how we abide, by receiving from the fountain of grace.
When we are in that receiving position then we can grow fruit.
Jesus teaches perfectly but we inject ourselves to make it about us not Him.
A
There is a couple people who I would agree with you about never witmessing then talk about progressive sanctification. However, I have talked to EG and Dcon enough to know they believe in the need for growth and maturity in Christ of believers. The other two...I withhold judgment because half the time I can't understand what they are saying or mean by their words.
Most people will agree that God works through us to help us grow and mature in Him. How that happens seems to be more vague in some people's minds, but there is faith that it happens.
Most people will agree that God works through us to help us grow and mature in Him. How that happens seems to be more vague in some people's minds, but there is faith that it happens.
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Hi SBG...Remember , the feeling of condemnation comes from the evil one...When ever we are convicted of sin, confess and move on with our Lord, the devil wants to remind us of our guilt and shame, it`s the memory we live in that keeps us stuck because of the evil ones whispering, that is when we have the authority of Jesus to tell the evil one to " Get behind me satan " then he will flee leaving you to enjoy the presence of the Lord......xox...
...xox...When scripture speaks of those "in the faith", it's those that are truly saved.
God has given us a wonderful, amazing covenant! Yes, God does promise to keep those committed to Him.
We can be eternally saved!
But like any covenant, we have the choice to step out of it.
I don't doubt God's promises, but one thing we see all through scripture is that God doesn't force His people to do anything.
God gave Adam & Eve the choice to obey Him, or face the consequences. Since then, God has always gave man the choice to stay or leave.
May God walk you thru the word to see that.
Thank you for your kindness in your posting..... It is refreshing.
God has given us a wonderful, amazing covenant! Yes, God does promise to keep those committed to Him.
We can be eternally saved!
But like any covenant, we have the choice to step out of it.
I don't doubt God's promises, but one thing we see all through scripture is that God doesn't force His people to do anything.
God gave Adam & Eve the choice to obey Him, or face the consequences. Since then, God has always gave man the choice to stay or leave.
May God walk you thru the word to see that.
Thank you for your kindness in your posting..... It is refreshing.
That's a very relevant scripture to what we are discussing Stephen! Very timely!
What was the leaven being spoken of? What was the persuasion that he called leaven? What were those believers being persuaded from and what had they been persuaded towards?
What was the leaven being spoken of? What was the persuasion that he called leaven? What were those believers being persuaded from and what had they been persuaded towards?
But you can't miss the point that you CAN"T keep His commands. Can a man never have anger in his heart toward another person? Can you? Of course not. So it seems to me, you must trust Him to see to it and to cause you to obey the command to not murder. Who can never get angry just because they know they aren't to do it? The best we can do is try to cover it up so the other person doesn't see it. That's no good, is it? GM by the way!
Love God.
Love others
Love yourself....
If you do not love yourself along with all your failings...how can you love others with all their failings
As I said Meggido, I know what you are saying. I just don't see that one can just become something that they haven't heard and that is with an ear that has been "circumcised". We can hear things without it registering as to what exactly is being said.
There are things that my husband was involved with way before I saw the truth of it. So that is why I posted "if God permits". It's His work to circumcise ones hearing. We cannot grow faster than His Holy Spirits revelation.
Also, I disagree that positional righteousness is meat. That is foundational and needs to be taught for there is security.
There are things that my husband was involved with way before I saw the truth of it. So that is why I posted "if God permits". It's His work to circumcise ones hearing. We cannot grow faster than His Holy Spirits revelation.
Also, I disagree that positional righteousness is meat. That is foundational and needs to be taught for there is security.