Not By Works

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Apr 30, 2016
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Yes I agree, I don't believe all of Scripture is focused on it. I am saying, the Scriptures that specifically focus on Salvation are usually focused on calling out to Him as Lord.
Cee,

You just don't even know how right you are.
Jesus is Savior
and He is Lord.

Unfortunately, not many stop to think what Lord means.

Jesus called God Almighty, Father.
He never called Himself Father.

He is Lord.
Lord means Master.
If Jesus is our master, that means we are his subjects and His disciples.

Some here don't like to think of themselves as subjects.
It would require some response from them.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Originally Posted by FranC


Yes. Works are necessary to remain saved.

J is an act of God.
S requires the cooperation of man. That means works.

Could we stop working and be saved??

I posted Revelation.
I posted chapters of Mathew, Jesus' own words.
I posted John 14:15

How about 2 Peter 2:20-22

We're either working for God
or working for the enemy

There are two gates, a narrow gate and a wide gate.
Did Jesus say there is a third gate?

We're either with God, following HIS rules,
or we're with the enemy.

I don't see the problem in saying works keep us saved.

Following Jesus keeps us saved.

Believing in Jesus keeps us saved.
What does BELIEF mean?


You nailed it! That is what Catholicism teaches. They try to "shoe horn" works "into" belief and basically define belief/faith as works, so salvation through faith turns into salvation by works. sigh
why are you worried about what religion teaches. (when did the catholic, get the holy spirit, given you claim to know this religion)



if you cannot understand , what a personal relationship is.
then you not understand what is wrote below here.
you need to be in contact by the rhema word.

not in contact by the logos word.

5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law,.

post other people write work, is not your written work.

who works, miracles among you, just because you quote the bible.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Are you serious?
PHart uses more scripture than ANYBODY on this thread.

Are you here just to make trouble?
opinions vary. yet by only answering certain post. would only show, blindness to there, own blindness.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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I know people who think that people can be saved, and turn from faith and deny Christ and lose salvation.

You will never hear them talk about works, You will never hear them say works are required to maintain or keep salvation. You will never hear them say a person can be saved, and sit and do nothing, Or that lack of works will cause anyone to lose salvation. They will actually agree with myself and others like me, that we are saved by faith, not works.

I will not argue with them, They do not push works, they understand, a person saved will work. They understand a person who has faith will work. so work is snot even in the equation or a question to be asked. They just simply state, A person was saved, changed their mind, and decided that God is not a god at all. and renounce not only verbally but in their heaert that God is not real.

Fran is not one of those people. Fran pushes works, She pushes that people can be saved and not work, She fights against grace, She fights against all that the gospel stands for.

Please do not try to compair these two types.. because the ONLY thing which even makes them resemble each other is they both say a person who in his or her heart there is no god will not get to heaven. And we would all three agree.
You should top talking about me and worry about your wife.
You know NOTHING about me or what I believe.

It's interesting that you Always say that people want to tell YOU what YOU believe and that they are wrong.

Well, aren't you doing the same thing right now?

Some persons here have the Holy Spirit and it is evident...
Some do not and it is evident...

The Holy Spirit does not cause grief
and we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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why are you worried about what religion teaches. (when did the catholic, get the holy spirit, given you claim to know this religion)



if you cannot understand , what a personal relationship is.
then you not understand what is wrote below here.
you need to be in contact by the rhema word.

not in contact by the logos word.

5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law,.

post other people write work, is not your written work.

who works, miracles among you, just because you quote the bible.
Allow me to advise you of something Mr. Royalscot

CATHOLICS have a Whole lot more of the Holy Spirit than some on this thread who don't even like Catholics.
And that includes YOU, I'm sorry to say.

I'm sure everyone here knows what a person living with the Spirit of God acts like, and not all here act like that.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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I find myself gossiping sometimes and it disgusts me. My mother and aunt pull me into it sometimes. The trick to seeing it is: would I say this to their face or not? Am I repeating something that was told to me in confidence or am I just repeating something they freely put out there for all to see or know? And finally, am I gleefully cutting them down and judging them? Or am I just discussing what they openly said?
Hi SG
It seems UG misunderstands many things.
I did scold her for gossiping about me many pages ago. She was saying not nice things about me to another poster when I was not present. They actually waited for me to stop posting--I saw it the next day.

It is NOT gossiping to just talk about another person if it's innocent and has to do with the conversation at hand.

It IS gossiping when nasty things are said without the person being present.

It's pretty Amazing to me that some here do not even know what gossiping is.
And yet they want to know about God and His teachings.
I find this incredible...
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Amen...and in believing in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection - we are walking in obedience. That's why it is called being "obedient to the faith".

Being "obedient to the faith" is believing in Christ and His work for us for life and living.

Notice here that even the law-keeping good moral living priests in the Law of Moses need to be "obedient to the faith".

The keeping of the law of Moses is NOT the same as being
"obedient to the faith".

Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were
becoming obedient to the faith.


Pagans/Gentiles also need to
be "obedient to the faith" and believe in Christ and what He has done for life and living.

Romans 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about
the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,


All people of all types are called to be "
obedient to the faith" - which is belief in Christ alone for life and living.

Romans 16:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations,
leading to obedience of faith;


His life living in and through us will result in His fruit being manifested in His good works so that people may see the grace and love of our loving father and Lord have for them.

We are to encourage believers in the doing of good works but these are done by the life of Christ in us - not for "keeping us saved". That's an anti-Christ belief system.
So i encourage you to sell your possessions and give to the poor and some to CC (this is good work)to be done through the life of Christ in you.
I'm looking forward to your OBEDIENCE thru the life of Christ working in you to sincerely do what you preach or else this verse may apply to you...

New International Version 1984 Matthew 23:3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Originally Posted by Meggido

1 Corinthians 12.3-
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost





smh, these people are at the final judgment, the are being judged whether they will enter heaven or hell, everyone at that point will declair jesus lord, and every knee will bow.

Romans 14, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Jesus
these people are at there final judgement. then why dose he go on to (varieties of service,) before you get to that judgement. varieties of activities, of activitities, before you get to that judement.


Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit;5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord;6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.1 Corinthians 12







that fact your still taking about hell, can be seen, as what faith, do you believe in, if your claim to already be saved by grace a gift.
the fact, you still looking at sin , would also indicate condemnation.
(gal5 1 to 4)
if you believe in a christain belief system ,


"4 But what is God's reply to him? "I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal."5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by graceRomans 11





then you would have to understand, the full measure of what grace is and it meaning, if your quote fall short.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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The word in John 3: 16 (believe) Is pistis

Go..
Not easy to do a real study.
It's easier just to claim someone is wrong.

Problem is that I'm right.
Believe and Obey come from the same Greek root word.

Do you wonder why Grace777 and Mailmandan, our two Greek experts, did not JUMP on this to disclaim me?

BECAUSE THEY CAN'T. Because I'm right.

IF you BELIEVE you also OBEY.

This is why OBEY is a favorite word of mine.

I love my husband.
I obey my husband.

I love my parents.
I obeyed my parents.

I love Jesus.
I obey Jesus.

IF I DON'T OBEY JESUS, IT MEANS I DON'T LOVE HIM.

§What's so difficult to understand?

IF I DON'T OBEY HIM because apparently I don't LOVE HIM,
Then do I have faith in Him?
Do I believe in Him?
Am I walking with Him?

NO!
 
Jan 27, 2013
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"Why do you call Me, Lord and do not the things I say?"
listening and reading in this case,
would prove a point.
who was listening, when these words were spoken,

and who read ,that these words ,were spoken by etc .
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Ahhh yes, but to her and to many here faith is a WORK.

And therein is the problem!!!
Did I SAY FAITH IS A WORK?

PLEASE show me where I said that?

You and Dcon and EG make up things about people.
WHY do you do this?

Does it make you feel Greater than them?
Are you afraid of what they say so you make believe you don't hear it?
Do you resent that they sound right and you don't and now you don't know what to do about it?
...so you say lies about them?

WHY???

Are we supposed to behave better than the rest of the world or are we supposed to act just like it?
Jesus died so we could act just like those that aren't even Christian??
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Allow me to advise you of something Mr. Royalscot

CATHOLICS have a Whole lot more of the Holy Spirit than some on this thread who don't even like Catholics.
And that includes YOU, I'm sorry to say.

I'm sure everyone here knows what a person living with the Spirit of God acts like, and not all here act like that.
when did i need you advise. and secondly, when are we, having a conversation.

when was that post wrote to you.

you cannot answer your own post, that are directed to you.

dose that save, save you changing profile,
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Believe and OBEY don't come from the same Greek word..

Perhaps it would help if you could tell us which Greek word you mean and the associated Bible verses?.

Strong's Greek: 5218. ὑπακοή (hupakoé) -- obedience

5218. hupakoé ►
Strong's Concordance
hupakoé: obedience
Original Word: ὑπακοή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: hupakoé
Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-ak-o-ay')
Short Definition: obedience
Definition: obedience, submissiveness, compliance.

Greek Concordance: πιστεύων (pisteuōn) -- 24 Occurrences
 
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Apr 15, 2017
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So i encourage you to sell your possessions and give to the poor and some to CC (this is good work)to be done through the life of Christ in you.
I'm looking forward to your OBEDIENCE thru the life of Christ working in you to sincerely do what you preach or else this verse may apply to you...

New International Version 1984 Matthew 23:3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common(they shared their belongings).
Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Yah,yah,they say we will do good works because Christ is in us,then they do not want to be obedient,and sell all they have and give to the poor,as Jesus told the rich man.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

That is what this Church did.They would not take care of the poor and the needy like they should,in which the Bible says the love of God does not dwell in them,and they were fallen,and needed to repent,and get with the program of loving people,or Jesus would go against them.

And you hear,and see,that a lot.We will do good works,because Christ is in us,but the works have nothing to do with salvation,but will not sell all their unnecessary possessions,and give it to the poor and needy,but instead they believe the prosperity Gospel that is opposite of what the Bible says,which the Bible says,if they preach the prosperity Gospel,withdraw yourself from them.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

If works do not matter in salvation,then why is Jesus telling them to do works,and their works are not perfect before God,and to repent,or else He will come and tickle their stomach,no,He will come against them if they do not repent.

If works do not matter in salvation,then why are we not right with Jesus if we do not do those works,and if we will do works because Christ is in us,but they have nothing do to with salvation,then why did they lack works,and their works were not perfect.

If the people that believe according to this way were arrested as a collective group,and had to go to court because of their beliefs,under suspicion that they are false,and lies,and they hired a defense attorney,the attorney after reading their beliefs,and comparing it to scriptures,would say,forget it,I cannot do it,for I cannot untangle this mess that you people have made of the scriptures,and make a solid case for you,for whichever way I try to present it there is falsehood to cover truth,and falsehood to cover falsehood,and twists and turns,that I cannot possibly keep a straight path to present a case for you.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Not easy to do a real study.
It's easier just to claim someone is wrong.

Problem is that I'm right.
Believe and Obey come from the same Greek root word.

Do you wonder why Grace777 and Mailmandan, our two Greek experts, did not JUMP on this to disclaim me?

BECAUSE THEY CAN'T. Because I'm right.

IF you BELIEVE you also OBEY.

This is why OBEY is a favorite word of mine.

I love my husband.
I obey my husband.

I love my parents.
I obeyed my parents.

I love Jesus.
I obey Jesus.

IF I DON'T OBEY JESUS, IT MEANS I DON'T LOVE HIM.

§What's so difficult to understand?

IF I DON'T OBEY HIM because apparently I don't LOVE HIM,
Then do I have faith in Him?
Do I believe in Him?
Am I walking with Him?

NO!
then why are you on here, posting smut. the bible i am posting in is english.

and asking for proof, if you dont know, what the correct answer is,

yet you say obey, yet the greek was wrote, how many years ago.

that the problem with history it always changing. sad fact, you think there, is a time freeze to history.

this is the year 2017.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
If you say we need continuous faith to be saved, I am sure I can find multiple times when you have said this, (not that I will because it does not matter to me anyway) then yes you have made faith a work.

You are indeed a fruit inspector always holding up how you think a believer should behave,

Oh and by the way, this that hurtful comment that caused you to think we were gossiping about you.
I guess only you get to joke around, and interestingly enough I do not think Sully and I had you in mind.

Nefarious mission :) seems to be only plausible reason.....at least we provide a consistent message. This comes as no surprise, the gospel is the gospel.

The workers and lawyers seem to make it up as they go along.....







Did I SAY FAITH IS A WORK?

PLEASE show me where I said that?

You and Dcon and EG make up things about people.
WHY do you do this?

Does it make you feel Greater than them?
Are you afraid of what they say so you make believe you don't hear it?
Do you resent that they sound right and you don't and now you don't know what to do about it?
...so you say lies about them?

WHY???

Are we supposed to behave better than the rest of the world or are we supposed to act just like it?
Jesus died so we could act just like those that aren't even Christian??
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Yes that would be helpful to know because it is all greek to me.


Believe and OBEY don't come from the same Greek word..

Perhaps it would help if you could tell us which Greek word you mean and the associated Bible verses?.

Strong's Greek: 5218. ὑπακοή (hupakoé) -- obedience

5218. hupakoé ►
Strong's Concordance
hupakoé: obedience
Original Word: ὑπακοή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: hupakoé
Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-ak-o-ay')
Short Definition: obedience
Definition: obedience, submissiveness, compliance.

Greek Concordance: πιστεύων (pisteuōn) -- 24 Occurrences
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
This is the only Greek word that I found that means obey and faith also...

Strong's Greek: 3982. πείθω (peithó) -- 53 Occurrences

3982. peithó ►
Strong's Concordance
peithó: to persuade, to have confidence
Original Word: πείθω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: peithó
Phonetic Spelling: (pi'-tho)
Short Definition: I persuade, urge
Definition: I persuade, urge.

Well going back to reading my books and things...check on y'all tomorrow.
 
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Jan 27, 2013
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Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common(they shared their belongings).
Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Yah,yah,they say we will do good works because Christ is in us,then they do not want to be obedient,and sell all they have and give to the poor,as Jesus told the rich man.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

That is what this Church did.They would not take care of the poor and the needy like they should,in which the Bible says the love of God does not dwell in them,and they were fallen,and needed to repent,and get with the program of loving people,or Jesus would go against them.

And you hear,and see,that a lot.We will do good works,because Christ is in us,but the works have nothing to do with salvation,but will not sell all their unnecessary possessions,and give it to the poor and needy,but instead they believe the prosperity Gospel that is opposite of what the Bible says,which the Bible says,if they preach the prosperity Gospel,withdraw yourself from them.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

If works do not matter in salvation,then why is Jesus telling them to do works,and their works are not perfect before God,and to repent,or else He will come and tickle their stomach,no,He will come against them if they do not repent.

If works do not matter in salvation,then why are we not right with Jesus if we do not do those works,and if we will do works because Christ is in us,but they have nothing do to with salvation,then why did they lack works,and their works were not perfect.

If the people that believe according to this way were arrested as a collective group,and had to go to court because of their beliefs,under suspicion that they are false,and lies,and they hired a defense attorney,the attorney after reading their beliefs,and comparing it to scriptures,would say,forget it,I cannot do it,for I cannot untangle this mess that you people have made of the scriptures,and make a solid case for you,for whichever way I try to present it there is falsehood to cover truth,and falsehood to cover falsehood,and twists and turns,that I cannot possibly keep a straight path to present a case for you.
the sad thing ,about context, to the bible, would be, revelations, is not read as wrote.

if context is missing, from scripture , your going, to have a hard job, conveying proof, from scripture.

free will, would mean, you are free to believe, what you want. yet if proven wrong ,in your context to scripture, do you change, or continue in blindness.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
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"Why do you call Me, Lord and do not the things I say?"
Ah...and what are the things we do not do that He said? Store treasure on earth? Hold unforgiveness and bitterness and anger in our heart? Defend ourselves? Worry over provision/the state of the economy/our 401k tanking? Are those a few examples of calling Him Lord but not doing the things He says? And so, what do we call someone who professes to follow but does not follow? Do we say they are a hypocrite who commends trusting in God to us but does not do what they teach others to do?