Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
hope this helps.
acts 15 already quoted , in other posts.
gentiles when did, they have, this law, if they are saved by grave a gift, and if the same grace, extends to a jewish convert. and after 70 ad. you have a licence to sin. you are no long under law. but if you choose to put your self under it. who going to redeem you again, you cannot put jesus ,back on the cross. etc
10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will."Acts 15
you err in your understanding to scripture.
Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
For you and Jaume, this is a hunger for righteousness in your inner man.peter says, after you have suffered for a little while He will confirm, strengthen and establish you. Very good news
Stunned, you are awesome!
Here's another scripture that goes with what Bill is saying and your response to him Jaume wants a pure heart too.
~2Co 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah! He is our merciful Father and the God of all comfort,
2Co 1:4 who comforts us in all our suffering, so that we may be able to comfort others in all their suffering, as we ourselves are being comforted by God.
~Take the popular scripture in Matt. 4:4 "Man shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."
The Greek word here for "word" is rhema - which is the spoken revealed word of God to us at the time.
When Jesus used this "rhema word" in Matt. 4:4 - He spoke it to the devil who said to Him - "If you are the Son of God...."
Notice that the devil left out what the Father had said to Jesus after He came out of the water. "This is My beloved Son." The enemy doesn't want us to be established in God's love for us.
The "now" word for Jesus was "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well-pleased".
Jesus lived from that word from the Father and didn't need to "prove" it to the devil.
Jesus' life came from what the Father said and believed about Him ( So, we too live by this very same principle )
LGF
Did you know that the Word that comes directly from His mouth is likened to a saber sword? Cuts the head of the enemy right off.
The written is likened to a dagger.
Check it out.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Doctrine by definition is a belief or a set of beliefs.
The problem with the word doctrine is that it does not have the personal connotation like the word belief.
Jesus has saved me because of my personal belief/doctrine in Him as my Saviour.
I did come to Him with the right doctrine, right belief, His terms not mine, and He gave me His gift of salvation.
My doctrine/belief is the vehicle, salvation is His gift to me as a singular event.
My belief in the work of Jesus saved me.
Ephesians 2:8
The problem with the word doctrine is that it does not have the personal connotation like the word belief.
Jesus has saved me because of my personal belief/doctrine in Him as my Saviour.
I did come to Him with the right doctrine, right belief, His terms not mine, and He gave me His gift of salvation.
My doctrine/belief is the vehicle, salvation is His gift to me as a singular event.
My belief in the work of Jesus saved me.
Ephesians 2:8
SOF
So you believe we are not to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God and Matt 4:4 does not apply to us?
U
UnderGrace
Guest
It is one thing to quote scripture, however what is the practical application of that in every day life?
So you believe we are not to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God and Matt 4:4 does not apply to us?
is this the topic of your quote.
? No, I believe as the Lord draws us we change to a point of repentance and turning to God. All the way into the light.
when was ,repentance ,used in the parable of the sower.
Matthew 13: The Parable of the Sower
1 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat beside the sea.2 And great crowds gathered about him, so that he got into a boat and sat down. And the whole crowd stood on the beach.3 And he told them many things in parables, saying: "A sower went out to sow.4 And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them.5 Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil,6 but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away.7 Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them.8 Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.9 He who has ears, let him hear."Matthew 13: The Parable of the Sower
if the crowd at this point are jewish,
28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me."Acts 10:
Hi UG
It is not a matter of quoting scripture, it is a matter of living by all of it. (Matt 4:4)
Hi LoveGodForever,
I'm just not sure I understood your post.
It seems like you're saying that keeping the Sabbath is a Civil Law.
Since Jesus abolished the Ceremonial Law and the Civil Law, it would seem to me that the Sabbath could not be part of the Civil Law since it is the 3rd Commandment.
The decalogue is part of the Moral Law.
The Moral Law was not abolished.
Keeping the Sabbath would be a part of the Moral Law.
You asked correctly above, if we break this Law, could we also feel free to break the Others. This is a good point, of course.
OTOH, we cannot say that because some worship on Sunday they are doomed. I know you must believe this since it's a sin of continuation.
Since this new worship day was begun by the early Church fathers, could we not trust that they knew what they were doing?
Even if they didn't, do you believe God could hold us responsible for doing what we've been taugth from the beginning of
Christianity?
The First Day of the Week
John 20:19
The 10 commandments are part of the Law. Paul himself said it was unless 'coveting" got kicked out of the 10 for getting caught "coveting."
Romans 7:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."
How do we live now in the New Covenant if the Christian has died to the law of Moses, been released from the law and not under the law but under grace now?
We don't need to live by the moral code in the law of Moses which says in Lev. 18:23 to not have sex with a animal. The law of Christ Himself , the law of love, the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus will stop this.
People often say to those that speak of the grace of God and that they are not under the law of Moses including the 10 commandments anymore that they believe they are without "laws" now.
Does that mean we can now kill people? Does that mean we can now steal?
The word "law" means "principle, rule, instruction".
We do have laws in the New Covenant.
They are exciting laws that bring life and wholeness to us all - because these are all Christ Himself in us. Jesus fulfilled the law.
The law ( which the 10 commandments were a part of ) was a mere shadow of the real thing which was Jesus.
Read the law to see Jesus in it and to know that Jesus did that for us and His life in us now leads us in all things. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.
We now live by:
1) The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. ( Romans 8:2 )
2) The law of love ( Romans 13:10 James 2:8 )
3) The law of faith ( Romans 3:27 and the law of Moses is NOT of faith - Gal. 3:12 )
4) The law of liberty in Christ Jesus ( James 1:25 )
5) The law of Christ - which is Christ Himself in us. ( Gal. 6:2 )
We can trust the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ Himself in us to lead us in all affairs of life. We don't go back to the law of Moses that were a shadow of the real thing which is Christ in us.. Jesus is more then enough.
Yes...we glory in the laws that we have in the New Covenant because they are all Christ Himself living in and through us. ( Gal.2:20 and Col. 3:3 )
Get this wrong and we create a religion which really nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.
Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Romans 7:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."
How do we live now in the New Covenant if the Christian has died to the law of Moses, been released from the law and not under the law but under grace now?
We don't need to live by the moral code in the law of Moses which says in Lev. 18:23 to not have sex with a animal. The law of Christ Himself , the law of love, the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus will stop this.
People often say to those that speak of the grace of God and that they are not under the law of Moses including the 10 commandments anymore that they believe they are without "laws" now.
Does that mean we can now kill people? Does that mean we can now steal?
The word "law" means "principle, rule, instruction".
We do have laws in the New Covenant.
They are exciting laws that bring life and wholeness to us all - because these are all Christ Himself in us. Jesus fulfilled the law.
The law ( which the 10 commandments were a part of ) was a mere shadow of the real thing which was Jesus.
Read the law to see Jesus in it and to know that Jesus did that for us and His life in us now leads us in all things. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.
We now live by:
1) The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. ( Romans 8:2 )
2) The law of love ( Romans 13:10 James 2:8 )
3) The law of faith ( Romans 3:27 and the law of Moses is NOT of faith - Gal. 3:12 )
4) The law of liberty in Christ Jesus ( James 1:25 )
5) The law of Christ - which is Christ Himself in us. ( Gal. 6:2 )
We can trust the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ Himself in us to lead us in all affairs of life. We don't go back to the law of Moses that were a shadow of the real thing which is Christ in us.. Jesus is more then enough.
Yes...we glory in the laws that we have in the New Covenant because they are all Christ Himself living in and through us. ( Gal.2:20 and Col. 3:3 )
Get this wrong and we create a religion which really nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.
Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Last edited:
SOF
So you believe we are not to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God and Matt 4:4 does not apply to us?
~Mat 4:4 But he answered, "It is written, 'One must not live on bread alone, but on every word coming out of the mouth of God.'"
Bread can be the written Word of God, and it also can be the broken body of Christ.
If we say it's the written Word? If it comes into our Spirit to lead us..then we do it. But, out of His mouth is prophetic. As Grace says...it's the now Word to fit the situation and is the leading of Holy Spirit such as how the Sons of God are led.
Is this true?
logos because, you reading it, about someone else s works or story.
rhema to them, your reading about it.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Which is exactly what I am asking, how do you live by every word that proceeds from God?
What does that look like in the life of a believer?
What does that look like in the life of a believer?
OK..
Just this for clarification and then it's good night.
What if a person believes in the person of Jesus as being God.
That person loves Jesus and prays to Him and honors Him and goes to Church, etc.
BUT, they know nothing about doctrine, they never read a bible, they don't understand
about the atonement or anything else having to do with belief/doctrine (pick your word).
Is that person saved?
my sheep here my voice.
16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd
context to when a gentile, was told about jesus.
Hi FranC,
NO I am not saying we are to live by the civil laws of Moses, actually the opposite. Sorry if it is not written very well and there is a misunderstanding. It was in response to Grace777's argument trying to say that to keep the Sabbath in the old testament means that if someone broke the Sabbath they had to be stoned. I was just saying that this punishment and same punishment also applied under the civil laws of Moses for Israel to the other 10 commandments as well. Now we know that we do not stone people any longer for committing Adultery right? So how can this be an argument for not keeping God's 7th Day Sabbath which is also one of the 10? Let me know if this makes more sense.
God bless
is this the topic of your quote.
Originally Posted by stonesoffire
? No, I believe as the Lord draws us we change to a point of repentance and turning to God. All the way into the light.
when was ,repentance ,used in the parable of the sower.
Matthew 13: The Parable of the Sower
1 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat beside the sea.2 And great crowds gathered about him, so that he got into a boat and sat down. And the whole crowd stood on the beach.3 And he told them many things in parables, saying: "A sower went out to sow.4 And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them.5 Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil,6 but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away.7 Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them.8 Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.9 He who has ears, let him hear."Matthew 13: The Parable of the Sower
if the crowd at this point are jewish,
28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me."Acts 10:
What was said was...I think all three of the types of ground can be applied to us as God is drawing us. We may be all three. Understand? But, when the ground is adequately prepared for the seed to take root, then is when we go all the way into the light. Meaning the taken from darkness into the Kingdom of Gods own Son. God is light.
You can accept it not...it's an IMO only.
I'm sorry Stone.
I can't shut down without saying this...
Do you realize that your saying this above:
As Grace says...it's the now Word to fit the situation
is situational ethics?
Just like in the secular world....
I hope LoveGodForever touches on this...
Night.